2023 - 2024 NBA changes

[Lights Out]

On 11/5/2023 at 3:10 PM, Cujo said:

 

Can we be honest? The Heat wouldn't be and would never be shyte if they couldn't lure players because of the location/weather.

 

The Dolphins haven't won a game that actually mattered in almost 23 years. Them, the Marlins and the Panthers have combined for one ring since the Heat drafted Wade. Same location/weather, very different results.

[Digby]

I realized today that the asphalt court in the nearest park to my house is painted mostly dark green with accented areas of khaki tan. Nice of the Celtics to pay tribute to local neighborhood parks but for added authenticity, their tournament court should have cracks in the pavement and irregular slants here and there.

[The_Admiral]

The Heat have had the steady and competent hand of Pat Riley guiding them all these years. That helps a lot. Consider how many front offices routinely do stuff that's really, really dumb. The Bulls front office did really dumb stuff while they were winning championships. Desirable weather and tax situations certainly help, but the Heat have a higher floor than most because they're not run by an idiot.

[MDGP]

33 minutes ago, the admiral said:

The Heat have had the steady and competent hand of Pat Riley guiding them all these years. That helps a lot. Consider how many front offices routinely do stuff that's really, really dumb. The Bulls front office did really dumb stuff while they were winning championships. Desirable weather and tax situations certainly help, but the Heat have a higher floor than most because they're not run by an idiot.

 

You could put a team in literal heaven and Jeffrey Loria would've still put together a 65 win team every year.

[The_Admiral]

Same thing with Tampa and the Bolts. Yes, it helps that Canadians are big weepy diaper babies who can't stand being recognized in public or paying their taxes, but the organization under Vinik has been first-rate and has set the stage to take advantage of generous tax breaks and spotlight-averse athletes. The Stars and Panthers have had the same benefits and still sucked ass for years at a time.

[BBTV]

5 hours ago, Lights Out said:

 

The Dolphins haven't won a game that actually mattered in almost 23 years. Them, the Marlins and the Panthers have combined for one ring since the Heat drafted Wade. Same location/weather, very different results.

 

Apples and oranges.

 

In the NBA, the players call the shots and decide where they play, and there's comparable money everywhere.

 

In the NFL, with their cap and CBA, there's a much larger distribution of talent.  and star players simply can't decide to force trades and form super teams.  Even if they tried, it'd be nearly impossible to do, and three guys* don't have as much of an impact on a football team as they do on an NBA team.

 

Baseball is also a bad comparison because the Marlins wouldn't pay anyone to play there, so even if all the great Cuban players, or just dudes that love Miami wanted to, it's not an option.

 

So yeah - Miami does have some advantages when it comes to luring NBA talent that the other Florida teams don't.  And I don't blame them one bit for exploiting it.

 

 

*unless one of those guys is Tom Brady.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

Apples and oranges.

 

In the NBA, the players call the shots and decide where they play, and there's comparable money everywhere.

 

In the NFL, with their cap and CBA, there's a much larger distribution of talent.  and star players simply can't decide to force trades and form super teams.  Even if they tried, it'd be nearly impossible to do, and three guys* don't have as much of an impact on a football team as they do on an NBA team.

 

Baseball is also a bad comparison because the Marlins wouldn't pay anyone to play there, so even if all the great Cuban players, or just dudes that love Miami wanted to, it's not an option.

 

So yeah - Miami does have some advantages when it comes to luring NBA talent that the other Florida teams don't.  And I don't blame them one bit for exploiting it.

 

 

*unless one of those guys is Tom Brady.

 

And they always dangle the "no state income tax" carrot to FAs.

[BBTV]

10 minutes ago, sayahh said:

 

And they always dangle the "no state income tax" carrot to FAs.

 

If players, even the Florida ones, didn't have to pay tax wherever they're practicing / playing on any particular week, I'd suggest that every team set up a fake HQ in Florida.  

 

That's a huge advantage.  Probably the only one that I think there should be some system in place to level out, but I've brainstormed dozens of plans, and none of them work.  Like maybe the league could "tax" the Florida teams, and that money would be used to pad the salaries of players signed by other teams, so as to make $100M worth $100M everywhere.  But I'm fairly certain that would be illegal, and even if it wasn't, it doesn't really work.

[SFGiants58]

Texas, Washington, and Nevada also don’t have state income tax. It’s not like Florida is a haven in that regard.

[mmejia]

38 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

If players, even the Florida ones, didn't have to pay tax wherever they're practicing / playing on any particular week, I'd suggest that every team set up a fake HQ in Florida.  

 

That's a huge advantage.  Probably the only one that I think there should be some system in place to level out, but I've brainstormed dozens of plans, and none of them work.  Like maybe the league could "tax" the Florida teams, and that money would be used to pad the salaries of players signed by other teams, so as to make $100M worth $100M everywhere.  But I'm fairly certain that would be illegal, and even if it wasn't, it doesn't really work.

Players are paid by game and taxed based on where that game is played. 

[VikWings]

On 11/5/2023 at 12:57 PM, Cujo said:

 

Sooo this isn't europe. We don't do soccer here. We do not care about soccer here. We don't do gaped out in-season meaningless tournaments here. 

 

The soccer tournaments at least involve teams in other leagues. The NBA one makes no sense at all.

[The_Admiral]

20 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Texas, Washington, and Nevada also don’t have state income tax. It’s not like Florida is a haven in that regard.

 

But there's the other end of the continuum to consider, too. Quebec has high taxes because they're not entirely a giant pyramid scheme like America is, and that keeps players away from what are supposed to be the New York Yankees of the NHL.

 

It would not be entirely without precedent for the commissioner's office to just throw out semi-arbitrary cap relief figures on a team-by-team basis, because that's the way the league does revenue sharing now in order to accommodate the Coyotes. The Habs could benefit from a Whiny B-tch Cushion to sign players, and the league benefits from strong Habs.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

Texas, Washington, and Nevada also don’t have state income tax. It’s not like Florida is a haven in that regard.

 

True, but while Texas has 3 NBA teams, they have yet to revive the Sonics and create a team in (or move one to) Nevada but both might get one probably sooner rather than later, maybe even in the same year. Players living in Florida might have their endorsements and commercials be untaxed, but, like you pointed out, they could always declare Las Vegas to be their primate residence.  There are a lot of things to do in Florida, New York and LA for younger (unmarried) players and maybe more non-basketball commercial opportunities so that might be more enticing than, say, Cleveland without a LeBron in his prime. But at the end of the day, players will either chase a ring or the biggest paycheck they can, and I don't blame them, especially when their agent(s), manager(s), publicist(s), etc. all need to be compensated, even if (or especially if) they are all family members.

[who do you think]

On 11/5/2023 at 3:10 PM, Cujo said:

 

Can we be honest? The Heat wouldn't be and would never be shyte if they couldn't lure players because of the location/weather.

 

Neither would the Lakers, the Yankees would be nothing if they were still in Baltimore, the Angels only keep signing people (and will continue to do so) because of their weather plus cozy suburban location, the biggest destination cities for NHL players are warm tax havens where nobody cares, etc etc. Place is a sometimes.

 

12 hours ago, phinish said:

 

You sound like a specific radio host on SIRIUSXM NBA. The both of you ignore the fact that throughout their success they've either acquired depressed assets like Zo and Tim Hardaway or drafted homegrown stars that were on the roster to attract FAs or to pair with a star they trade for. 2010-2014 is the only time period your statement can even given the time of day. Had they drafted Chris Kaman instead of Dwyane Wade it never happens. They never get Shaq either. You'd be better off saying if they never drafted Dwyane Wade none of the last 20 years happen. That doesn't sound as good because talking about location and weather means you can give them no credit.

 

 

8 hours ago, the admiral said:

The Heat have had the steady and competent hand of Pat Riley guiding them all these years. That helps a lot. Consider how many front offices routinely do stuff that's really, really dumb. The Bulls front office did really dumb stuff while they were winning championships. Desirable weather and tax situations certainly help, but the Heat have a higher floor than most because they're not run by an idiot.

 

Miami (the location) is the carrot that gets their kind of people in the door and gives them license to work their players like dogs in training camp and beyond. Nobody wants to leave Miami once they get there. Having great scouts and great management so they can consistently find the right kind of players that can be (re)developed certainly helps a lot, but Miami itself is the key to all of it. This wouldn't work in Sacramento or probably anywhere else besides LA; they'd just end up running those guys off.

 

(Maybe in Vegas it could work; if they get an expansion franchise, they'd do well to try and run it like the Heat, using Vegas as the hook.)

 

The flipside to this is South Florida is a horrific sports market in terms of fan loyalty, so the Heat pretty much have to operate this way; keep that win total around 40 (at least; very doable in a league where half the teams are either actively tanking or demoralized and disinterested), keep unearthing the Caleb Martins and Max Struses and Udonis Haslems, keep enough of a foundation in place to lure the next star player(s) to bring you back into contention. If they were to ever try a full tear-down, tank-for-picks rebuild, they'll get about 30% attendance until it's over.

 

11 hours ago, Lights Out said:

 

The Dolphins haven't won a game that actually mattered in almost 23 years. Them, the Marlins and the Panthers have combined for one ring since the Heat drafted Wade. Same location/weather, very different results.

 

Huh? You do realize that the Heat, Marlins, and Dolphins are all in-season at different times of the year, correct? South Florida sucks during baseball season and a good chunk of the NFL season.

[Lights Out]

12 hours ago, BBTV said:

Baseball is also a bad comparison because the Marlins wouldn't pay anyone to play there

 

That's kind of the whole point, though. The Heat have good ownership. The Marlins have had nothing but terrible owners running a franchise in a top-20 TV market like it's in Glendive or North Platte.

 

Ownership and management are what make the Heat good, not the location that the other teams in the market aren't benefiting from because they're poorly-run.

[TaylorMade]

13 hours ago, VikWings said:

 

The soccer tournaments at least involve teams in other leagues. The NBA one makes no sense at all.

 

The WNBA has been doing it for several years. It's called the Commissioner's Cup. 

[PrimalCookie]

The thing is, a lot of the positives for Miami in free agency (weather, taxes, etc) also theoretically apply to Orlando and I don't think a single player has ever tried to force a trade here.

 

I'm not arguing Orlando is more desirable, obviously we're not, but the gap isn't so wide that any Miami team will naturally become a top 3 FA destination while any Orlando team naturally becomes a bottom 5-10 one. It's the reputation of each organization that does that, and the Heat have only missed the playoffs 4 times since 2003. Players would see that and want a part of it no matter where the team is located.

[The_Admiral]

Just thinking about the time Vivek wanted to make the SacKings play 4 on 5 so that there was always just a guy hanging out by himself ready to dunk the ball uncontested. They didn't do that, but think of all the dumb stuff they did do, and all the stuff the Heat didn't do because they're not run by an idiot. Or Belichick and the Patriots against everyone else. You can go remarkably far by just not being an idiot.

[Cujo]

Can't read a single word.

 

[bbush24]

14 hours ago, Cujo said:

Can't read a single word.

 

That actually makes it better