2023-24 MLB offseason thread

[ruttep]

1 minute ago, Cujo said:

 

That was a bullet dodged. A huge Giants W, in my book.

 

Don't disagree there, it's more about the Giants never being able to sign the big players available and the Dodgers getting everything. It's just sad.

[LMU]

3 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

Maybe this will be the death blow to Arte's ego and chequebook? One can only hope.

 

I'm just sad I never got to see him in person with the Angels.

If we learned anything from the Zack Greinke signing, it's that the Dodgers signing a free agent away from the Angels will make Arte go panic mode and ridiculously overpay for a bust.

[SFGiants58]

So yeah, I can sense the "small-market" owners whining about wanting a hard cap at the next CBA negotiation, leading to another work stoppage.

[ruttep]

 

Just now, SFGiants58 said:

So yeah, I can sense the "small-market" owners whining about wanting a hard cap at the next CBA negotiation, leading to another work stoppage.

 

Still think a salary floor is more important than a salary cap: Something that'll force all teams to at least field a competitive roster.

[Cujo]

Just now, ruttep said:

Don't disagree there, it's more about the Giants never being able to sign the big players available and the Dodgers getting everything. It's just sad.

 

But that's not the "Giants Way".

 

Since when has SF needed big name bats to win? They won 3 titles just picking dudes like Juan Uribe and Pat Burrell off the streets,

[The_Admiral]

2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

So yeah, I can sense the "small-market" owners whining about wanting a hard cap at the next CBA negotiation, leading to another work stoppage.

Probably. You can't sell hopelessness in 24 markets, and "actually, Ohtani is a worker" won't get much play outside of Defector in current economic conditions.

[SFGiants58]

Just now, ruttep said:

 

 

Still think a salary floor is more important than a salary cap: Something that'll force all teams to at least field a competitive roster.

 

With this crop of owners? A salary floor will probably never happen, even though it's far more important an issue than growing player salaries.

[ruttep]

Just now, Cujo said:

 

But that's not the "Giants Way".

 

Since when has SF needed big name bats to win? They won 3 titles just picking dudes like Juan Uribe and Pat Burrell off the streets,

 

I mean they did reach the World Series in 2002 (before horrendously choking) with the biggest "big-name bat" ever. That aside, they don't exactly have Bruce Bochy in the dugout anymore. I don't have much faith in us milking 107 wins out of a bunch of AAAA players again. Our upside is 80-something wins, wild card team. We could do that, get into the playoffs, and get hot, but the odds of that are probably pretty low.

[FiddySicks]

14 minutes ago, ruttep said:

Between this, Arson Judge, and Correa's physical, it's been a rough couple years of free agency for my Giants. I might have to take a year off from baseball this season.

 

13 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

That was a bullet dodged. A huge Giants W, in my book.

Both of these are true simultaneously. 
 

Speaking of that, @Sport instituted a ten year moratorium on complaining about your team after winning a title (good rule). Giants are in year nine, and boy do I have some bitching to do. Can’t wait. 

[nickp91]

The best thing out of this is that it will be forever a negative in the history of Arte Moreno

[Cujo]

2 minutes ago, nickp91 said:

The best thing out of this is that it will be forever a negative in the history of Arte Moreno

 

He gonna selfishly hold onto Trout until it's too late and they can get nothing in return for him, like they did with Ohtani?

[ruttep]

5 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Speaking of that, @Sport instituted a ten year moratorium on complaining about your team after winning a title (good rule). Giants are in year nine, and boy do I have some bitching to do. Can’t wait. 

 

Yeah I didn't know that rule, so I'll complain less for now, but I'm not exactly confident in the direction of this baseball team.

[SFGiants58]

8 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

But that's not the "Giants Way".

 

Since when has SF needed big name bats to win? They won 3 titles just picking dudes like Juan Uribe and Pat Burrell off the streets,

 

Well, last time the Giants went for big names (albeit in pitching), we had the whole Bobby Evans era where every signing and trade turned putrid almost immediately. Remember trying to give money to Cueto, Samardzija, and Melancon?

 

5 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

 

Speaking of that, @Sport instituted a ten year moratorium on complaining about your team after winning a title (good rule). Giants are in year nine, and boy do I have some bitching to do. Can’t wait. 

 

 

If it's a rapid succession of titles like the Giants had, that moratorium is a little more in flux. But yeah, a decade moratorium works.

 

1 minute ago, Cujo said:

 

He gonna selfishly hold onto Trout until it's too late and they can get nothing in return for him, like they did with Ohtani?

 

Mike Trout is already on the back end of his career and very injury-prone. You would never get that much for him now and his legacy is now that the Angels utterly wasted his talent and he was never competitive or brash enough to escape that situation. Complacency means he's an all-time great who only has MVP trophies to show for it.

[ruttep]

2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Well, last time the Giants went for big names (albeit in pitching), we had the whole Bobby Evans era where every signing and trade turned putrid almost immediately. Remember trying to give money to Cueto, Samardzija, and Melancon?

 

Lmao. Thanks for reminding me of that 2016 team that limped into the playoffs and completely fell apart against the Cubs. The sign that the Even Year BS was over.

[monkeypower]

4 minutes ago, LMU said:

If we learned anything from the Zack Greinke signing, it's that the Dodgers signing a free agent away from the Angels will make Arte go panic mode and ridiculously overpay for a bust.

 

I think Arte might be on the horn with Greinke's agent right now.

 

2 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

He gonna selfishly hold onto Trout until it's too late and they can get nothing in return for him, like they did with Ohtani?

 

1 minute ago, SFGiants58 said:

Mike Trout is already on the back end of his career and very injury-prone. You would never get that much for him now and his legacy is now that the Angels utterly wasted his talent and he was never competitive or brash enough to escape that situation. Complacency means he's an all-time great who only has MVP trophies to show for it.

 

The Angels have let Trout kind of control his own destiny. He's never made much of issue and seemed to always value, for whatever reason, staying with the team. 

 

The Angels issues are top down and everybody knows it. There was this Athletic article from the end of September that is kind of the most recent comprehensive coverage of the entire situation. Arte runs cheap to make money and now his biggest cash cow is gone.

[Davey]

10-year contract at 30 years old...

Good luck with that contract in 3-5 years.

[LMU]

3 minutes ago, Davey said:

10-year contract at 30 years old...

Good luck with that contract in 3-5 years.

Considering it A-is so deferred that Bobby Bonilla needs smelling salts and B-the Guggenheim guys are going to do a Scrooge McDuck dive into all the Japanese ad sales, I think it’ll be manageable.

[BBTV]

2 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Yeah, I’m think I’m out on baseball. 

 

You're not.

 

2 hours ago, ruttep said:

 

I don't think I can physically comprehend someone getting this amount of money to throw a ball and hit it with a bat. This is absolutely insane.

 

He's not getting paid it just to throw a ball and hit it.  While that's part of it, he's being paid to simply be there so they can sell shirts, jerseys, better TV deal (maybe... I don't know their deal), and generate interest that translates into revenue.  He's also being paid to not be on competitors.  It's likely that as long as they win even just one WS (which I still think is unlikely), they'll profit in the end.  Even if his career declines and he's "only" as good as a 30M guy, it'll probably be worth it.  He's being paid as much for his current fame as he is for his anticipated future production.

 

37 minutes ago, Davey said:

10-year contract at 30 years old...

Good luck with that contract in 3-5 years.

 

They know that, as does any team signing a guy for 10 or more years.  It's just how free market works - if you want a guy for 5 years, someone else will offer 6, then you'll need to offer 7, and so on.  Don't think that the Dodgers are signing this with the expectation that he'll be worth 70M/year in today's dollars after 5 or 6 years.  Who knows what 70M is worth in 2030 dollars (it's probably easy math, but I'm not doing it) but there's no way they're expecting that.

 

---------

 

IMO, even if you're generous and give him 5 pitching years after sitting out next year, and value him at 40M/year pitching and 40M/year hitting, that's still "only" 10/600.  If you're really trying to win and it doesn't preclude you from signing other key pieces, then that's a nearly-trivial difference (yes, I understand that calling 100M "trivial" is a bold statement, but in the current sports-contract landscape, it kinda is.)

[Cujo]

Arte wasting no time

 

[Sport]

1 hour ago, FiddySicks said:

 

Both of these are true simultaneously. 
 

Speaking of that, @Sport instituted a ten year moratorium on complaining about your team after winning a title (good rule). Giants are in year nine, and boy do I have some bitching to do. Can’t wait. 

Hold your horses. Theres a multiplier on that and a whole complicated equation if they win multiples in a very short stretch. Boston fans, for example, aren’t allowed to complain about any sport until 2055 and that’s only if they don’t win another in that time. I’ll have to crunch some numbers and get back to you on when you’re allowed to :censored: about the Giants.