High School v. Pro/College Logos

[DG_ThenNowForever]

In fact, we had a simple shamrock as a helmet logo, which if you think about it, is actually a pretty simple and elegant design.

Yeah, it is a great design. Looked fantastic when Notre Dame used it in the late 1950s/early 1960s.

http://www.helmethut.com/lamnot1.JPG

Wow. I had no idea. I can understand why they don't use that now, being the "Golden Domers" and all of that.

I'd actually like to see more Irish-themed teams, professional or otherwise. If the NBA ever expands to Europe, a Dublin or Belfast franchise could have some really neat uniform designs.

Notice how I'm not proposing any names there...that could get out of hand fast.

[jab8281965]

I'm relatively new to the site, and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but the reasons that teams protect their trademarks/logos is that they HAVE to.

The way the law is written, if you have something trademarked or registered and fail to monitor the legal/illegal use of it, you can lose the right to claim royalties or exclusivity to it.

I know that for the longest time Harvard didn't pursue the numerous bootlegged merchandise sold in/around Harvard until one of their law school professors noted a slanderous bootleg and asked the school why they didn't monitor their marks/names and the school said they didn't think it was worth their while - until the lawyer brought up the fact that if they don't protect their name/mark it could be considered part of the public domain and ANYONE could use it without paying Harvard. It was a pretty big deal in Boston when it happened.

MLB Properties was a client of mine and they hire my firm to do royalty reviews and the like to make sure they're getting their fair share of royalties from people who license their stuff.

[leopard88]

I'm relatively new to the site, and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but the reasons that teams protect their trademarks/logos is that they HAVE to.

The way the law is written, if you have something trademarked or registered and fail to monitor the legal/illegal use of it, you can lose the right to claim royalties or exclusivity to it.

I know that for the longest time Harvard didn't pursue the numerous bootlegged merchandise sold in/around Harvard until one of their law school professors noted a slanderous bootleg and asked the school why they didn't monitor their marks/names and the school said they didn't think it was worth their while - until the lawyer brought up the fact that if they don't protect their name/mark it could be considered part of the public domain and ANYONE could use it without paying Harvard. It was a pretty big deal in Boston when it happened.

MLB Properties was a client of mine and they hire my firm to do royalty reviews and the like to make sure they're getting their fair share of royalties from people who license their stuff.

jab raises a very good point. However, if the pro leagues feel compelled to monitor the use of their marks, I do not believe they would be jeopardizing their rights by letting the youth leagues, high schools, etc. know that they are aware of the use but are willing to allow it (subject to limitations on commercial use and the like). That would still seem to fall within the scope of monitoring the use of the marks.

jab, correct me if I am wrong on this. If I am not, the leagues/teams could protect their trademarks while still not jeopardizing any goodwill by coming down hard on the continued use of the marks by the little guys.

[Sterling84]

The way the law is written, if you have something trademarked or registered and fail to monitor the legal/illegal use of it, you can lose the right to claim royalties or exclusivity to it.

I know that for the longest time Harvard didn't pursue the numerous bootlegged merchandise sold in/around Harvard until one of their law school professors noted a slanderous bootleg and asked the school why they didn't monitor their marks/names and the school said they didn't think it was worth their while - until the lawyer brought up the fact that if they don't protect their name/mark it could be considered part of the public domain and ANYONE could use it without paying Harvard. It was a pretty big deal in Boston when it happened.

MLB Properties was a client of mine and they hire my firm to do royalty reviews and the like to make sure they're getting their fair share of royalties from people who license their stuff.

I believe Grambling had something similar happen just last year. Unless I am getting stories confused they let something lapse or didn't monitor it and anybody can make faux Grambling gear now.

[markar14]

In fact, we had a simple shamrock as a helmet logo, which if you think about it, is actually a pretty simple and elegant design.

Yeah, it is a great design. Looked fantastic when Notre Dame used it in the late 1950s/early 1960s.

http://www.helmethut.com/lamnot1.JPG

Wow. I had no idea. I can understand why they don't use that now, being the "Golden Domers" and all of that.

I'd actually like to see more Irish-themed teams, professional or otherwise. If the NBA ever expands to Europe, a Dublin or Belfast franchise could have some really neat uniform designs.

Notice how I'm not proposing any names there...that could get out of hand fast.

the Celtics. Look 'em up sometime.

[Discrim]

The way the law is written, if you have something trademarked or registered and fail to monitor the legal/illegal use of it, you can lose the right to claim royalties or exclusivity to it.

I know that for the longest time Harvard didn't pursue the numerous bootlegged merchandise sold in/around Harvard until one of their law school professors noted a slanderous bootleg and asked the school why they didn't monitor their marks/names and the school said they didn't think it was worth their while - until the lawyer brought up the fact that if they don't protect their name/mark it could be considered part of the public domain and ANYONE could use it without paying Harvard. It was a pretty big deal in Boston when it happened.

MLB Properties was a client of mine and they hire my firm to do royalty reviews and the like to make sure they're getting their fair share of royalties from people who license their stuff.

I believe Grambling had something similar happen just last year. Unless I am getting stories confused they let something lapse or didn't monitor it and anybody can make faux Grambling gear now.

bringing up a related point, the closer you go to Madison the more often you'll see local businesses using variations of the original Bucky Badger logo. UW's problem with that was Bucky wound up falling into public domain, hence I could open, say, Badger Pizza, "create" a logo of Bucky holding a pizza, and UW couldn't do a thing about it. hence, the original Bucky was gradually phased out in favor of a modernized version (I remember first seeing it sometime in 2002)

[rmered]

Over here in Aus the AFL (Australian Football League) is the controlling body for all junior football. Except schools, which run their own thing.

Their marketing department allow, and encourage, use of club logos, providing there is "a discernable difference in the design".

Generally, this means clubs can use logos, so long as their club name is always part of the logo.

Eg

West Coast Eagles AFL team

East Coast Eagles

So long as the wordmark differentiates the teams, they're OK.

If the wordmark wasn't used by East Coast, they'd be in trouble.

[Discrim]

yeah, but doesn't East Coast have some sort of partnership arrangement with West Coast, hence they'd probably get to use it anyway? I know Essendon has a few similar arrangements (Bendigo I know off the top of my head, and at least two other clubs).

[rmered]

yeah, but doesn't East Coast have some sort of partnership arrangement with West Coast, hence they'd probably get to use it anyway? I know Essendon has a few similar arrangements (Bendigo I know off the top of my head, and at least two other clubs).

OK, well in that case yes, but in other cases, where the clubs have no link what so ever, they are still allowed to do something very similar.

Many clubs prefer their own identities, but the AFL don't mind at all if clubs are using logos very similar to the copyrighted pro teams.

[awuestenfeld]

Tulsa Union

Here is a story about a local school. The Tulsa Union High School football team was asked to remove their helmet decals, etc because of a resemblence (the exact thing) to the University of Miami's U.

[paynomind]

I know that Miami is particularly anal about the use of their marks. Seems like half of the news stories yo uhear on the subject involve Miami.

It just really annoys me that teams at all levels can be so lazy when there are so many talented designers out there. (here)

[jab8281965]

I'm relatively new to the site, and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but the reasons that teams protect their trademarks/logos is that they HAVE to.

The way the law is written, if you have something trademarked or registered and fail to monitor the legal/illegal use of it, you can lose the right to claim royalties or exclusivity to it. 

I know that for the longest time Harvard didn't pursue the numerous bootlegged merchandise sold in/around Harvard until one of their law school professors noted a slanderous bootleg and asked the school why they didn't monitor their marks/names and the school said they didn't think it was worth their while - until the lawyer brought up the fact that if they don't protect their name/mark it could be considered part of the public domain and ANYONE could use it without paying Harvard.  It was a pretty big deal in Boston when it happened.

MLB Properties was a client of mine and they hire my firm to do royalty reviews and the like to make sure they're getting their fair share of royalties from people who license their stuff.

jab raises a very good point. However, if the pro leagues feel compelled to monitor the use of their marks, I do not believe they would be jeopardizing their rights by letting the youth leagues, high schools, etc. know that they are aware of the use but are willing to allow it (subject to limitations on commercial use and the like). That would still seem to fall within the scope of monitoring the use of the marks.

jab, correct me if I am wrong on this. If I am not, the leagues/teams could protect their trademarks while still not jeopardizing any goodwill by coming down hard on the continued use of the marks by the little guys.

Unfortunately the law doesn't allow for "Relief" from the monitoring by allowing selected groups to use their logos/marks at no cost.

That's why MLB had to come down hard on Little League teams for using MLB names. Now MLB can (and I think it has) take the money it gets from Majestic for LL uniforms with ML logos and give some of the money back to youth baseball, but they HAVE to collect fees from people using it.

I do a ton of recruiting for my employer at my alma mater (Northeastern in Boston), and we wanted to make some t-shirts/golf shirts up with our logo and the school's logo as a sign of "partnership". I was only allowed to use my alma mater's logo if I could prove that we wouldn't be selling the shirts, and that the school had to approve of the pattern, content, design, and quality of the apparel.

Wasn't THAT big of a deal, but I was told by our AD that legal counsel required it as part of the "monitoring" program the school had in place.

[hawk36]

I personally can't stand when high school teams look like pro teams. To me, high school teams can have such a great, clean, look that is perfect for their environment. Bold, interlocking letterforms are so "high school", and so great looking, it's a shame when schools try and look too polished.

For instance, my high school football team had a great interlocking CV helmet design since the 40s and recently changed to a replica of the Michigan State Spartan head. It just isn't the same and doesn't look right to me.

[DGivens87]

It just really annoys me that teams at all levels can be so lazy when there are so many talented designers out there. (here)

I wholeheartedly, 100% agree with that statement. I myself have asked a couple of people on this board (officeglenn being one of them) to provide logos for my wiffleball and backyard football leagues, and have been nothing but absolutely thrilled to see the results. There are so many people out there, especially on this board, that have so much creativity and talent, that it's a damn shame to see high school/college/semi-pro/ and intramural leagues go the lazy way and just copy an existing logo.

[Gothamite]

The way the law is written, if you have something trademarked or registered and fail to monitor the legal/illegal use of it, you can lose the right to claim royalties or exclusivity to it.

I know that for the longest time Harvard didn't pursue the numerous bootlegged merchandise sold in/around Harvard until one of their law school professors noted a slanderous bootleg and asked the school why they didn't monitor their marks/names and the school said they didn't think it was worth their while - until the lawyer brought up the fact that if they don't protect their name/mark it could be considered part of the public domain and ANYONE could use it without paying Harvard. It was a pretty big deal in Boston when it happened.

MLB Properties was a client of mine and they hire my firm to do royalty reviews and the like to make sure they're getting their fair share of royalties from people who license their stuff.

I believe Grambling had something similar happen just last year. Unless I am getting stories confused they let something lapse or didn't monitor it and anybody can make faux Grambling gear now.

bringing up a related point, the closer you go to Madison the more often you'll see local businesses using variations of the original Bucky Badger logo. UW's problem with that was Bucky wound up falling into public domain, hence I could open, say, Badger Pizza, "create" a logo of Bucky holding a pizza, and UW couldn't do a thing about it. hence, the original Bucky was gradually phased out in favor of a modernized version (I remember first seeing it sometime in 2002)

Actually, the problem with the old Bucky Badger was that he wasn't created for the university. Different bookstores around Madison had different versions of Bucky created. The one that we associated with the school was first ordered by (the now-gone) Brown's Book Store.

The school started using it, but never had an exclusive right to it until 1988, when the University was granted a trademark.

There's a good summary here, in Wikipedia's entry on Bucky.

So by the time the new Bucky was unveiled in 2002, the University owned him. That can't be the reason for the change.

I believe that the real reason for the revamped Bucky was partially to consolidate the brand under the "motion W" and at the same time to create a simplified version for embroidery and the like. Personally, I like the older one better - more charm.

[StefOn]

As far as I know when NFL Properties notices a adult team that is competing with an NFL logo they send a nice letter, advising the team to change the logo to avoid a court session.

They have done that with a football club from Austria, the Vikings. They looked just like Minesota, same unis, same logo. Turned out to be great for the team as they now have their own version of the Norseman, much, much sharper than the original.

[Cokeologist]

How many HS football teams use helmet and color variations of the Chicago Bears' wishbone "C" helmet design???

[rmackman]

My old high school used a maroon and silver version of the Philadelphia Eagles uniforms. I can't find a photo right now, but I'll try later.

Our local peewee football team is the Coral Springs Chargers who use this...

and

[JetsLuvver]

My old high school, Westhill High School of Stamford, CT, has never really had an identity of its own. They use the NFL Vikings logo as a primary and used to wear exact replicas of the Vikes uniforms with horned helmet.

When I was there, they wore copies of the U. of Washington's purple helmets of the mid-90's. Now, they use the same uni's of that era (simple purple jersey, yellow pants. Sometimes they went all-purple) with a blank helmet, so I guess that's kind of unique.

Both my middle school (Cloonan Bulldogs) and elementary (Davenport Ridge Gators) had original logos, though.

Also, my first elementary school (moved and changed schools around 88), Springdale School, used the cartoon characters Chip and Dale as mascots and actually sold shirts with them on it. I'm not sure if Disney ever made them stop.

I wish I had some pics.