Vick indicted

[Atomic]

Guess it ain't "alleged" anymore. Say goodbye to the NFL, Michael. You will become, fairly or not, the biggest "bust" in terms of #1 overall draft picks.

Jay Berwanger

Chose not to sign with the team that drafted him.

Ended up as a carpenter IIRC.

Well, yeah, but things were a little different in 1936.

So who are the candidates for biggest bust of a (post-AFL merger) No. 1 pick? For consideration....

Michael Vick

David Carr

Tim Couch

Courtney Brown

Ki-Jana Carter

Steve Emtman

Aundray Bruce

Kenneth Sims

Tom Cousineau

I wouldn't call David Carr a bust, at least not just yet. I think any QB would have struggled as much (if not more) given the situation he was put in. As for Emtman, he was in Little Giants with Ed O'Neal, so he can't be a bust!

As for eating meat...Cows are vegatarians too. Look what happens to them.

[Lee.]

Besides, I mostly eat cruelty-free meat.

Help a brother out. What is that, exactly?

[BlueSky]

Allow me to play devil's advocate. How many people in here are meat eaters? What do you think happens to cows and pigs when they are slaughtered for food?

We clearly live in a society that thinks we are above animals. Why does cruelty to dogs matter?

Do a YouTube search for pig and cow slaughter, it will blow your mind. Suffering, cramped quarters, electrocutions, animals staggering while their throats are slit, unborn babies torn from mother's bellies.

Every meat eater who believes Vick is a criminal is a hypocrite. Every time you take a bite of meat, you are endorsing animal cruelty.

If you're going to claim hypocrisy, you might look towards horse racing.

Or bullfighting, which is a pretty good comparison to dogfighting.

To the original poster's point, I'm all for humane means of treating and slaughtering animals used in the food supply. And personally, I fail to see the appeal of hunting for sport. But...comparing those activities to fighting and killing dogs is ridiculous. The difference is intent.

Efficiency is the most likely intent of a slaughterhouse, and from the little I know of hunting, a clean killshot is a hunter's intent. Neither intends to intentionally inflict pain and suffering on animals in order to derive entertainment from that pain and suffering. There are probably some sick freaks who hunt and get off on shooting to wound an animal and then tormenting it, and they should be locked up in a cell right there with the sick freaks who fight dogs (or any other animal) because there's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who derives pleasure from inflicting or watching cruelty and suffering.

[BB61]

Besides, I mostly eat cruelty-free meat.

That's what she said.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Efficiency is the most likely intent of a slaughterhouse, and from the little I know of hunting, a clean killshot is a hunter's intent. Neither intends to intentionally inflict pain and suffering on animals in order to derive entertainment from that pain and suffering. There are probably some sick freaks who hunt and get off on shooting to wound an animal and then tormenting it, and they should be locked up in a cell right there with the sick freaks who fight dogs (or any other animal) because there's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who derives pleasure from inflicting or watching cruelty and suffering.

Yup.

[Audiodrama]

In the least surprising news I've seen in awhile, the Atlanta NAACP is supporting Vick, per an article on ESPN.com:

ATLANTA -- An NAACP leader said Michael Vick should be allowed to return to the NFL, preferably the Atlanta Falcons, after serving his sentence for his role in a dogfighting operation.

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta chapter. "We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country."

White said the Falcons quarterback is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.

On Monday, Vick said through a lawyer that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

Three Vick associates have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and say Vick provided nearly all the gambling and operating funds for the "Bad Newz Kennels" dogfighting enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs, raising the possibility of the animal cruelty charges.

Last month, state and local leaders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People urged the public not to rush to judgment in the Vick case. The civil rights organization said animal rights groups, talk radio and the news media were vilifying the embattled athlete, and that his team and corporate sponsors were prematurely punishing Vick.

White said the Atlanta chapter supports Vick's decision to accept a plea bargain if it's in his best interest, but he questioned the credibility of Vick's co-defendants, saying an admission of guilt might be more about cutting losses than the truth.

"At this point, you're not looking at guilt or innocence," White said, referring to the possible harsher sentence Vick could have received had he taken his case to trial and been found guilty. "You're thinking, 'What I better do is cut my losses and take a plea.' But if he saw this as the best thing to do at this point for his future, then I think he made the correct choice."

White said he regretted that the plea deal will mean all the facts of the case might never be known.

"Some have said things to save their own necks," White said. "Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being."

White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.

"His crime is, it was a dog," White said.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

(Sorry if this has been posted already -- I didn't see it anywhere.)

[VitaminD]

Explain to me again how my consumption of range-free livestock that wasn't domesticated or anyone's pet and raised expressly for its meat but was not tortured during its life somehow makes me a hypocrite if I am repulsed by the systematic abuse and execution of "man's best friend" who was trained to fight then killed for not winning? I missed the point beneath a thick veil of bull , specious reasoning and a PETA-sponsored attempt to guilt me into being a vegetarian. I am an animal lover, and my wife and I have pets, and will continue to do so. We will also continue to eat meat, poultry and fish. I don't support factory farming, and we buy food from local farms that treat their livestock humanely (even at the time of their death), and I sleep just fine at night. Humans are omnivores; we can digest animal flesh just like many other species here on Earth. Doesn't mean I am going to barbecue my neighbor's dog just because I could. Pets aren't livestock, and livestock aren't pets.

[jkrdevil]

On a tangent I never got vegetarians. Plants are life too why is it ok for them to eat a plant but wrong for them to animal (meat)?

[BB61]

On a tangent I never got vegetarians. Plants are life too why is it ok for them to eat a plant but wrong for them to animal (meat)?

Plants don't think.

[jkrdevil]

On a tangent I never got vegetarians. Plants are life too why is it ok for them to eat a plant but wrong for them to animal (meat)?

Plants don't think.

How do you know?

[DEAD!]

On a tangent I never got vegetarians. Plants are life too why is it ok for them to eat a plant but wrong for them to animal (meat)?

Plants don't think.

How do you know?

... BigBrain is God... don't you know?

Personally, I'm indifferent towards vegetarians. They have have a different diet. It sure beats Atkins....

[Jigga]

Besides, I mostly eat cruelty-free meat.

That's what she said.

I was waiting for someone to say that.

[Jigga]

Besides, I mostly eat cruelty-free meat.

Help a brother out. What is that, exactly?

Basically, cruelty-free meat comes from the animals that are treated well and are happy until they are slaughtered, but only in the most humane way.

Actually, you should Google it. It's pretty funny :censored:. Way funnier than whatever lame explanation or definition I can offer.

By the way, why is my name in your sig?

[JQK]

Are you a happy pig?

- Oink!

Ok......

...BOOM!

Bacon anyone?

No matter how it's treated, it's still dead, and it's still gona get eaten...

I may be a cruel bastard, but meat is meat. Wether it was happy or well treated before slaughter, or it was kicked into a wood chipper, it's still food...

[ProvidenceRI]

Pets aren't livestock, and livestock aren't pets.

Yes, but both are animals, and both are beneath us, according to society.

Do you think Vick was raising those dogs as pets? He was raising them as animals.

I do not support dogfighting, cockfighting, bullfighting. But in a world where we endorse the killing of animals for human gain, I do not see Vick as a "monster." An idiot? Yes.

I'm not even a vegetarian. I am just laughing at people's lack of logic. Why is it ok to kill certain animals and not others?

If Vick wants to fight and kill dogs, he should be able to, just like Farmer Joe can box up and kill baby cows for veal.

[charger77]

I started to read the article, but got sick and skipped past it.

Jesus Christ. Free college, drafted with the first pick, an appearance on the cover of a video game, and you still need to drown and electrocute dogs (allegedly).

F you, Michael Vick.

I'm on board with gitlin here!

[zer0dotcom]

Every meat eater who believes Vick is a criminal is a hypocrite. Every time you take a bite of meat, you are endorsing animal cruelty.

No you're not, you're fulfilling your bodies need for sustenance when you eat meat

Raising animals for food and killing them by hanging them from a cord on the ceiling, holding them underwater until they drown and electrocuting them is far different. When you go to kill a cow, you don't torture it to in death. In the United States, a law exists wherein all animals processed at a slaughter house must be rendered unconscious before being killed. is it totally cruelty free? No, the animal still dies. But the animal isn't tortured and doesn't suffer when the time comes.

You are feeding an agenda by spouting this bull and diverting the topic from the issue of Michael Vick and other men killing dogs and forcing them to mar and kill each other. If you want to talk about the double standard towards animals in North America, start another thread

If Vick wants to fight and kill dogs, he should be able to, just like Farmer Joe can box up and kill baby cows for veal.

For someone who claims to point out the lack of logic in the discussion here, you fail to notice the glaring absence of it from this statement.

[Jigga]

Every meat eater who believes Vick is a criminal is a hypocrite. Every time you take a bite of meat, you are endorsing animal cruelty.

No you're not, you're fulfilling your bodies need for sustenance when you eat meat

Raising animals for food and killing them by hanging them from a cord on the ceiling, holding them underwater until they drown and electrocuting them is far different. When you go to kill a cow, you don't torture it to in death. In the United States, a law exists wherein all animals processed at a slaughter house must be rendered unconscious before being killed. is it totally cruelty free? No, the animal still dies. But the animal isn't tortured and doesn't suffer when the time comes.

You are feeding an agenda by spouting this bull and diverting the topic from the issue of Michael Vick and other men killing dogs and forcing them to mar and kill each other. If you want to talk about the double standard towards animals in North America, start another thread

If Vick wants to fight and kill dogs, he should be able to, just like Farmer Joe can box up and kill baby cows for veal.

For someone who claims to point out the lack of logic in the discussion here, you fail to notice the glaring absence of it from this statement.

How come y'all never say that :censored: to TNak?

[rams80]

Every meat eater who believes Vick is a criminal is a hypocrite. Every time you take a bite of meat, you are endorsing animal cruelty.

No you're not, you're fulfilling your bodies need for sustenance when you eat meat

Raising animals for food and killing them by hanging them from a cord on the ceiling, holding them underwater until they drown and electrocuting them is far different. When you go to kill a cow, you don't torture it to in death. In the United States, a law exists wherein all animals processed at a slaughter house must be rendered unconscious before being killed. is it totally cruelty free? No, the animal still dies. But the animal isn't tortured and doesn't suffer when the time comes.

You are feeding an agenda by spouting this bull and diverting the topic from the issue of Michael Vick and other men killing dogs and forcing them to mar and kill each other. If you want to talk about the double standard towards animals in North America, start another thread

If Vick wants to fight and kill dogs, he should be able to, just like Farmer Joe can box up and kill baby cows for veal.

For someone who claims to point out the lack of logic in the discussion here, you fail to notice the glaring absence of it from this statement.

How come y'all never say that :censored: to TNak?

TNak doesn't know any better and this guy should?

[JQK]

Why is it ok to kill certain animals and not others?

I quote Pulp Fiction:

Vincent Want some bacon?

Jules No man, I don?t eat pork.

Vincent Are you Jewish?

Jules Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine, that?s all.

Vincent Why not?

Jules Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals.

Vincent Yeah, but bacon tastes gooood. Pork chops taste gooood.

Jules Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know ?cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfu*ker. Pigs sleep and root in :censored:. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eatin' nothin' that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces.

Vincent How about a dog? Dog eats its own feces.

Jules I don't eat dog either.

Vincent Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?

Jules I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. A dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.

Vincent Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?

Jules Well we'd have to be talkin' about one charmin' motherfu*kin' pig. I mean he'd have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'?

People relate to Dogs... Dogs is Mans oldest domesticated animal, and has earned the title of "Man's Best Friend".

No one eats dogs (some parts of Korea and Cina, but that's another argument for another day)

Point is, Dogs have personality and people love that about them. They have loyalty, courage, humor..... Pigs don't quite have that, cows neither.... it's easier t eat things that we really don't care about.