I thought the Jaguars.......

[Mingjai]

Okay, so somene's got to start this, we've all seen a green buck, some red socks and even a partially red sock, and even some white socks, but have you ever seen a Blue Devil, an Orangeman, a maple leaf that's blue, a green bear (Baylor), a purple and yellow tiger, a green and gold bull, a gold hurricane, and there's probably more.

I think it's funny how often this comes up on this forum. The best about this time around is that is was instigated by two 2000+ post members.

[dfwabel]

Did they even manage to sell out the game?

How appropriate that the Jags decided to go with a Blackout look.

Divisional domination

Colts pick off another AFC South foe on road

By Phil Richards

phil.richards@indystar.com

The Indianapolis Colts instead sent the Jags and their sell-out, teal-clad crowd of 67,164 home with disappointment.

Tank, his point was more like this: After Super Bowl 39, they reduced capacity in order to sell out. Sadly, they put in a club end zone section in addition to a larger north end zone, but cannot sell it out. Thus all the tarps and unsold end zone seats. While Jacksonville has more seats between the 20 than their other expansion competitors when they bid for the team, they also promised a higher visitor's receipt gate at that time too. This Washington Post story from last year wil assist most of you out:

Washingtonpost.com story on the reduction of seats in JAX

The NFL was correct in taping a Florida market for a "one team town" a la Green Bay, their quest for a Super Bowl, an event which they will never attain again, may have killed the franchise. Not to mention that the numerals on the white jersey have switched from teal to black. That is weak. plus, Alltell gave up their title sponorship. That doesn't help Wayne Weaver's bottom line. So, visit a Shoe Carnival to get some kicks!

[dennisbergan]

I much preferred the black pants with stripes on them, and liked the way the teal jersey looked in that combo. Removing the stripes was a downgrade, IMO:

A better look at those pants:

Seeing them with the black jersey makes it a little more obvious why they removed them, but doing something to benefit the black jersey at the expense of the teal jersey is unfortunate, again IMO.

Those teal stripes on the pants fit no purpose. They don't go with anything (helmet or jersey). They are out-of-place.

The solid black pants look perfect with the stripe-less helmet and limited stripes on the jerseys.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Maybe the pattern doesn't match, but actually including teal ties it into the teal jersey -- and avoids the spandex look. All-black pants look terrible on any team, IMO.

I don't care if it's piping or it matches the "limited striping," as you called it, of the jersey, but I think they need something.

[Blue Falcon]

Did they even manage to sell out the game?

How appropriate that the Jags decided to go with a Blackout look.

Divisional domination

Colts pick off another AFC South foe on road

By Phil Richards

phil.richards@indystar.com

The Indianapolis Colts instead sent the Jags and their sell-out, teal-clad crowd of 67,164 home with disappointment.

Tank, his point was more like this: After Super Bowl 39, they reduced capacity in order to sell out. Sadly, they put in a club end zone section in addition to a larger north end zone, but cannot sell it out. Thus all the tarps and unsold end zone seats. While Jacksonville has more seats between the 20 than their other expansion competitors when they bid for the team, they also promised a higher visitor's receipt gate at that time too. This Washington Post story from last year wil assist most of you out:

Washingtonpost.com story on the reduction of seats in JAX

The NFL was correct in taping a Florida market for a "one team town" a la Green Bay, their quest for a Super Bowl, an event which they will never attain again, may have killed the franchise. Not to mention that the numerals on the white jersey have switched from teal to black. That is weak. plus, Alltell gave up their title sponorship. That doesn't help Wayne Weaver's bottom line. So, visit a Shoe Carnival to get some kicks!

Wow, great article. And another reason why they should move the Jaguars to Los Angeles and get a new identity for the team. I don't know why the 56th-largest TV market was given a team in the first place, especially when there are two Florida teams already.

[Gothamite]

Thanks for the assist. That's exactly what I was talking about. They can't sell out the stadium's actual capacity, so they artifically reduce it in order to avoid blackouts (and even then have games blacked out).

Keep Jacksonville in the Super Bowl rotation if you must, but time to move the team.

[leedsunited]

Thanks for the assist. That's exactly what I was talking about. They can't sell out the stadium's actual capacity, so they artifically reduce it in order to avoid blackouts (and even then have games blacked out).

Keep Jacksonville in the Super Bowl rotation if you must, but time to move the team.

To where though? L.A. should be the one and only destination (as no other NFL-free city can effectively support the Jags without the same issues that affect Jacksonville), but there are no stadium plans nor are there any for the foreseable future.

Moving them to the L.A. Coliseum, or even the Rose Bowl, would be a big mistake (ask Al Davis all about that). How can a team with an established identity like the Raiders not make a go of it in the L.A. landscape, yet the Jags can miraculously pull fans to an aging, decrepit dump while a magical billion-dollar stadium pipe dream comes to fruition? It ain't happenin. Not with the Jags at least. I'd love to see it succeed, though.

[Gothamite]

Actually, with the rumors floating that Georgia Frontiere wants back into the City of Angels, there might well be a new location opening up, one that maintains geographic sense no less.

You're right, though - the lack of a viable ready alternative is the only thing keeping the NFL from fixing this mistake.

[powersurge]

Did they even manage to sell out the game?

How appropriate that the Jags decided to go with a Blackout look.

Divisional domination

Colts pick off another AFC South foe on road

By Phil Richards

phil.richards@indystar.com

The Indianapolis Colts instead sent the Jags and their sell-out, teal-clad crowd of 67,164 home with disappointment.

Tank, his point was more like this: After Super Bowl 39, they reduced capacity in order to sell out. Sadly, they put in a club end zone section in addition to a larger north end zone, but cannot sell it out. Thus all the tarps and unsold end zone seats. While Jacksonville has more seats between the 20 than their other expansion competitors when they bid for the team, they also promised a higher visitor's receipt gate at that time too. This Washington Post story from last year wil assist most of you out:

Washingtonpost.com story on the reduction of seats in JAX

The NFL was correct in taping a Florida market for a "one team town" a la Green Bay, their quest for a Super Bowl, an event which they will never attain again, may have killed the franchise. Not to mention that the numerals on the white jersey have switched from teal to black. That is weak. plus, Alltell gave up their title sponorship. That doesn't help Wayne Weaver's bottom line. So, visit a Shoe Carnival to get some kicks!

Wow, great article. And another reason why they should move the Jaguars to Los Angeles and get a new identity for the team. I don't know why the 56th-largest TV market was given a team in the first place, especially when there are two Florida teams already.

If I remember correctly the two front runners (other than Charlotte): Los Angeles and Baltimore had too many groups with horrible plans and not enough financing for their stadiums (i.e. public money), which let the ball slip through their hands into the waiting hands of the TDJacksonville organization who had the taxpayers' wallets wide open.

[Survival79]

Actually, with the rumors floating that Georgia Frontiere wants back into the City of Angels, there might well be a new location opening up, one that maintains geographic sense no less.

Source?

You're right, though - the lack of a viable ready alternative is the only thing keeping the NFL from fixing this mistake.

That's a pretty big "only thing" right there.

[Island_Style]

LA has already lost two teams and refuses to build a stadium for another. Where else should they go that wouldn't have the same problem. Also, it is one of the smallest markets with one of the biggest stadiums, even with the covered seats. Funny thing is, even when games are blacked out they have more people in the stands than most NFL stadiums. The attandence at the blacked out Texans game was almost 64,000. Lets compare that to some of the other teams that week. The Bears had 62,174, Tampa had 65,347, Dallas had 63,984, Arizona had 64,400. The week before that the Rams just got over 61,000, and the Colts was just over 57,000. This past week the Raiders just got over 62,000. Looks like we aren't doing to bad. The team's stadium is just alittle big for a new market but getting over 63,000 for a game is not that bad at all and does not induce panic mode. Do some research before spouting off. Hell, what about the Rams and Raiders? They have had black outs. Should we call the moving vans? Do some research before you spout off, Gothamite.

Here are attendance averages for some teams areound the league.

Jacksonville:

vs Tennessee - 65,437

vs Atlanta - 61,182

vs Houston - 63,715

vs Indy - 67,164

Total average - 64,374

Colts

vs New Orleans - 57,361

vs Denver - 57,274

vs Tampa Bay - 57,202

total average - 57,279

Chicago

vs Kansas City - 62,095

vs Dallas - 62,099

vs Minnesota - 62,174

Total average - 62,123

St. Louis

vs Carolina - 65,307

vs 49ers - 65,295

vs Arizona - 61,788

total average - 64,130

Oakland

vs Detroit - 61,547

vs Cleveland - 51,075

vs Kansas City - 62,240

total average - 58,287

See, not bad attendance for the Jags. Don't let the stadium size/market size ratio full you. Minnesota, a market close to Jacksonville's has smaller numbers as well.

[leedsunited]

To be fair to Jacksonville, the Jags have put a substandard to mediocre product on the field for quite some time now (ever since the end of the Mark Brunell salad days). Winning consistently would fix a lot of their ills.

[Island_Style]

To be fair to Jacksonville, the Jags have put a substandard to mediocre product on the field for quite some time now (ever since the end of the Mark Brunell salad days). Winning consistently would fix a lot of their ills.

Great point to add. That would effect any team without tradition to keep afloat during the bad years. People should look at Oakland with more shame than the Jags. They have only been around since 95, unlike Oakland. Green bay can be horrible for a few years but they will still sell out. They have a great tradition that allowed their fanbase to expand through out the years. Jacksonville got alot of transplant fans. They were fans of other teams when the Jags came to town, then they had to adopt. The kids in 95 that had no other team are finishing college, those fans are the future of this franchise. They were raised on the Jags. Being a young team in a small market things are going to take time. I think Wayne Weaver, the owner, knows this.

[illwauk]

If a place like Atlanta can get teams simply because it's in a large TV market no matter how apathetic they've shown themselves to be time and time again, then I see no reason why Jacksonville shouldn't be given a chance to prove itself.

That said, southern cities are just not good places for sports teams. Most of their support comes from displaced northerners who go to see the team from "back home" when they come to town (I've seen more than my share of Packers away games against J'ville, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Atlanta, etc. where the Packers fan far outnumbered the "home" fans). And because most places in the south won't consider you a true southerner if your parents are from "up north," their kids end up pulling for their parents team.

In other words new teams in the south can expect to be in a fanbase building phase for at least a good 30 years. Unless they can cut it in half by building a dynasty (see Cowboys, Dolphins and Braves).

[Gothamite]

Actually, with the rumors floating that Georgia Frontiere wants back into the City of Angels, there might well be a new location opening up, one that maintains geographic sense no less.

Source?

I can't really properly source a rumor, now can I?

rams80 has discussed it several times on these very boards - he says that the Rams have failed in their attempts to build a regional fanbase, and have struggled to keep fans in St. Louis itself. He's the one who confirmed the existence of such rumors, though of course nobody can confirm if there's any truth in them.

[Gothamite]

Do some research before you spout off, Gothamite.

You might wish to do some research as well - I have upbraided the Rams and Raiders for their attendance struggles as well. I have also said that I hope the rumors are true, and that Georgia does want to relocate the Rams, as I am not convinced it's really a great football town.

That having been said, if you can't fill your stadium, you need better corporate support. Tickets that go unsold must be purchased by local companies. Happens all over the country. If you consistently have blackouts over the course of several years, if you're ever in danger of your home opener being blacked out, we need to talk about whether the market deserves an NFL team. And yes, that includes Oakland and St. Louis.

Atlanta? Atlanta is a lousy sports town. Period. Their MLB and NFL teams have had over four decades to build a fanbase, which means that boys who saw games as kids could now conceivably be preparing to take their grandchildren. That's plenty long, and the relative apathy of Atlanta sports fans is nothing short of pathetic.

Should anyone actually be able to consolidate the various groups in LA into to setting ego aside and speaking with one cohesive voice, watch out. Somebody's moving. It may well not happen, but I wouldn't want to bet my team on that.

[Survival79]

Actually, with the rumors floating that Georgia Frontiere wants back into the City of Angels, there might well be a new location opening up, one that maintains geographic sense no less.

Source?

I can't really properly source a rumor, now can I?

rams80 has discussed it several times on these very boards - he says that the Rams have failed in their attempts to build a regional fanbase, and have struggled to keep fans in St. Louis itself. He's the one who confirmed the existence of such rumors, though of course nobody can confirm if there's any truth in them.

Can you really properly source a rumor? Probably not, however, you could at least provide some context, as you did in your response. No offense to rams80, but I would imagine most people would lend a bit more credibility to a reputable news source floating a rumor versus message board chatter.

[Sodboy13]

See, not bad attendance for the Jags. Don't let the stadium size/market size ratio full you. Minnesota, a market close to Jacksonville's has smaller numbers as well.

Now, change all those numbers from raw attendance into percentange of stadium capacity, and tell me what those figures really say. If Chicago, Indianapolis, or Minnesota had 76,000-seat stadiums, I dare say you wouldn't be including them in your presentation of fuzzy math.

[Gothamite]

Actually, with the rumors floating that Georgia Frontiere wants back into the City of Angels, there might well be a new location opening up, one that maintains geographic sense no less.

Source?

I can't really properly source a rumor, now can I?

rams80 has discussed it several times on these very boards - he says that the Rams have failed in their attempts to build a regional fanbase, and have struggled to keep fans in St. Louis itself. He's the one who confirmed the existence of such rumors, though of course nobody can confirm if there's any truth in them.

Can you really properly source a rumor? Probably not, however, you could at least provide some context, as you did in your response. No offense to rams80, but I would imagine most people would lend a bit more credibility to a reputable news source floating a rumor versus message board chatter.

Few "reputable news sources" will report rumors. Even those that do don't necessarily go further than repeating what's being said elsewhere... on message boards.

Heck, this board has been cited more than once.

[Island_Style]

See, not bad attendance for the Jags. Don't let the stadium size/market size ratio full you. Minnesota, a market close to Jacksonville's has smaller numbers as well.

Now, change all those numbers from raw attendance into percentange of stadium capacity, and tell me what those figures really say. If Chicago, Indianapolis, or Minnesota had 76,000-seat stadiums, I dare say you wouldn't be including them in your presentation of fuzzy math.

But you can't prove that they could. However, I can prove if Jax had a stadium their size they would fill it up, which is my point. Jacksonville stadium is so big because of college football, mainly the Florida/Georgia game where they actually expand it to over 80,000. A few years ago Indy had trouble filling the smallest stadium in the NFL. A few years ago Minnesota was threatining to move to San Antonio.