NHL Expansion in 2010?

[rams80]

Smart you say...

i'm smart enough to know that hockey dose not belong in Raleigh,Nashville,Miami(sunrise),Tampa,Dallas,Phoenix,Anaheim,and Atlanta............all though i give a pass to LA and SJ,

Would it disturb you to know that Dallas has done a lot to create interest in hockey locally, and is indeed one of the great success stories of the 1990s? Would it hurt you to know that Anaheim, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and other markets have done well considering a "lack" of hockey locally? Or are you just going to blanketly dismiss the concept of hockey south of the Ohio. You know, where the US population is growing?

than cities likeMil.,Sea.,Ham.,Ssk.,QC.,Winn.,and Cle

Milwaukee is too saturated a market with 3 other teams (yes the Packers count)

Seattle doesn't have a NHL compatible arena.

Hamilton's arena is a dump, not to mention subject to veto from Buffalo and Toronto

Saskatoon/Regina/whatever lack arenas, corporate presence, and population.

Quebec City lacks an arena.

Winnipeg's arena is too small.

Cleveland has had periodic success with minor league hockey, but ultimately they may be at the limit with 3 other major league teams.

not that those teams don't have fans,passionate ones at that,but hockey is life to most canadians,and Gary bettman,has screwed them over WAY to many times

Ah yes, the "evil" Gary Bettman who of course is filled with the same loathing for Canadians that Don Cherry has for Europeans and purposely took away teams from them argument. Never mind that the businessmen who own the individual franchises simply felt that better arenas and business opportunities existed in the South and the decision to move ultimately lies with them.

move Nash to Ham

move Phx to Winn

then let everything else fail/Succeed as is

I believe there are certain legal/lease issues that would make moving rather difficult at the moment.

although the NBA is worse,how can OKC and others deserve a team more than KC,St.L,SD,Bal,SF,TB,Cin.,Sea.

It was ultimately the decision of the OKC-based businessmen to move the franchise there. That is their prerogative as businessmen.

But for *bleeps* and giggles.

KC-open for a team, could get one in the near future

St. Louis-overcrowded market

San Diego-lacks arena

Baltimore-lacks arena

San Francisco-lacks arena

Tampa Bay-overcrowded market

Cincinnati-theoretically has arena, but also has strong local college B-Ball presence

Seattle-lacks arena

[yoo]

Smart you say...

i'm smart enough to know that hockey dose not belong in Raleigh,Nashville,Miami(sunrise),Tampa,Dallas,Phoenix,Anaheim,and Atlanta............all though i give a pass to LA and SJ,

Would it disturb you to know that Dallas has done a lot to create interest in hockey locally, and is indeed one of the great success stories of the 1990s? Would it hurt you to know that Anaheim, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and other markets have done well considering a "lack" of hockey locally? Or are you just going to blanketly dismiss the concept of hockey south of the Ohio. You know, where the US population is growing?

than cities likeMil.,Sea.,Ham.,Ssk.,QC.,Winn.,and Cle

Milwaukee is too saturated a market with 3 other teams (yes the Packers count)

Seattle doesn't have a NHL compatible arena.

Hamilton's arena is a dump, not to mention subject to veto from Buffalo and Toronto

Saskatoon/Regina/whatever lack arenas, corporate presence, and population.

Quebec City lacks an arena.

Winnipeg's arena is too small.

Cleveland has had periodic success with minor league hockey, but ultimately they may be at the limit with 3 other major league teams.

not that those teams don't have fans,passionate ones at that,but hockey is life to most canadians,and Gary bettman,has screwed them over WAY to many times

Ah yes, the "evil" Gary Bettman who of course is filled with the same loathing for Canadians that Don Cherry has for Europeans and purposely took away teams from them argument. Never mind that the businessmen who own the individual franchises simply felt that better arenas and business opportunities existed in the South and the decision to move ultimately lies with them.

move Nash to Ham

move Phx to Winn

then let everything else fail/Succeed as is

I believe there are certain legal/lease issues that would make moving rather difficult at the moment.

although the NBA is worse,how can OKC and others deserve a team more than KC,St.L,SD,Bal,SF,TB,Cin.,Sea.

It was ultimately the decision of the OKC-based businessmen to move the franchise there. That is their prerogative as businessmen.

But for *bleeps* and giggles.

KC-open for a team, could get one in the near future

St. Louis-overcrowded market

San Diego-lacks arena

Baltimore-lacks arena

San Francisco-lacks arena

Tampa Bay-overcrowded market

Cincinnati-theoretically has arena, but also has strong local college B-Ball presence

Seattle-lacks arena

never said anything about any southern cities being bad for hockey,i live in one for petes sake

and you cut off my sentence in your quote

i'm smart enough to know that hockey dose not belong in Raleigh,Nashville,Miami(sunrise),Tampa,Dallas,Phoenix,Anaheim,and Atlanta............all though i give a pass to LA and SJ,than cities like Mil.,Sea.,Ham.,Ssk.,QC.,Winn.,and Cle

didn't say they do/don't have arenas,didn't say anything about fans or filling the seats or being in a bad market/or if they could survive in a market

i said those cities DESERVE a team more

i'm sure there are a lot more Hockey fans in Canada,who play watch and live for the game,than a Fla Panthers fan who only watches the game,and the closes thing to skating on ice he has ever done is slipping on an ice cube on his kitchen floor

i'm know Dallas has done a lot for southern hockey and should stay in dallas,but when i started watching games and see players being introduced from NC SC GA TX TN FL AL MS AZ and so on maybe my opinion will change

but if some NHL god or whatever came to me and said would i give up my team to move to Canada i would say yes,knowing that the team would be loved and followed for years by many hockey nuts who may actually go on and play for them

if you live in the southern US,get NHL network,and notice the diffidence between a Cyote/Preads/Panthers game than a Canadian team,ask a random man in NC what a blue line is............he'll look at the road and tell you the lines are white and yellow

[CC97]

From the quotes I read the Leafs wouldn't challenge a second Toronto team -- I'm sure some agreement would have to be worked out (perhaps paying rent to play at the MLSE owned ACC until they get their own place, if at all?) I'm sure a big chunk of the huge expansion fee would go to the Leafs to make them happy.

Toronto is made up of two types of people, the hardcore Leaf fan and the hardcore Leaf hater. I'd say the split is around 65/35... guess where that large chunk + the disgruntled Leaf fan will go to?

The Marlies/Majors/Toros failures is no reason to discount a second NHL team in Toronto. Toronto has always been fickle when it comes to minor league sports... if we let the support the A-League Toronto Lynx got dictate whether Toronto was a soccer town or not we'd never see the amazing success that is the MLS's Toronto FC.

A second team in Toronto would be a success and makes a lot more sense then sticking a second team in the LA area did.

[rams80]

never said anything about any southern cities being bad for hockey,i live in one for petes sake

and you cut off my sentence in your quote

i'm smart enough to know that hockey dose not belong in Raleigh,Nashville,Miami(sunrise),Tampa,Dallas,Phoenix,Anaheim,and Atlanta............all though i give a pass to LA and SJ,than cities like Mil.,Sea.,Ham.,Ssk.,QC.,Winn.,and Cle

didn't say they do/don't have arenas,didn't say anything about fans or filling the seats or being in a bad market/or if they could survive in a market

i said those cities DESERVE a team more

Where did you say that? Although the word "deserve" implies an abandonment of objectivity in favor of subjective opinions. If we only give teams to cities that "deserve" them, then I contend that my hometown "deserves" a team. As does every other municipality of 100,000 people or greater in North America.

i'm sure there are a lot more Hockey fans in Canada,who play watch and live for the game,than a Fla Panthers fan who only watches the game,and the closes thing to skating on ice he has ever done is slipping on an ice cube on his kitchen floor

i'm know Dallas has done a lot for southern hockey and should stay in dallas,but when i started watching games and see players being introduced from NC SC GA TX TN FL AL MS AZ and so on maybe my opinion will change

It will take time to effect that magnitude of change. At least one generation, probably more likely 2 or 3 would need to pass in order to see that kind of change take hold in the local sporting culture, and to bring in the talent levels required for the NHL.

but if some NHL god or whatever came to me and said would i give up my team to move to Canada i would say yes,knowing that the team would be loved and followed for years by many hockey nuts who may actually go on and play for them

Of course the Canadians may play for the team anyway, even if it is playing in Carolina. Wouldn't it be better to increase your potential talent pool down the road by keeping the game in newer territories for interest in hockey to grow?

if you live in the southern US,get NHL network,and notice the diffidence between a Cyote/Preads/Panthers game than a Canadian team,ask a random man in NC what a blue line is............he'll look at the road and tell you the lines are white and yellow

Actually he'll probably say it tells you where the ball is on the football field, but the Hurricanes have only been in state for a little over a decade. That is not nearly enough time to cultivate and grow the game locally.

[Gary]

never said anything about any southern cities being bad for hockey,i live in one for petes sake

and you cut off my sentence in your quote

i'm smart enough to know that hockey dose not belong in Raleigh,Nashville,Miami(sunrise),Tampa,Dallas,Phoenix,Anaheim,and Atlanta............all though i give a pass to LA and SJ,than cities like Mil.,Sea.,Ham.,Ssk.,QC.,Winn.,and Cle

didn't say they do/don't have arenas,didn't say anything about fans or filling the seats or being in a bad market/or if they could survive in a market

i said those cities DESERVE a team more

Where did you say that? Although the word "deserve" implies an abandonment of objectivity in favor of subjective opinions. If we only give teams to cities that "deserve" them, then I contend that my hometown "deserves" a team. As does every other municipality of 100,000 people or greater in North America.

i'm sure there are a lot more Hockey fans in Canada,who play watch and live for the game,than a Fla Panthers fan who only watches the game,and the closes thing to skating on ice he has ever done is slipping on an ice cube on his kitchen floor

i'm know Dallas has done a lot for southern hockey and should stay in dallas,but when i started watching games and see players being introduced from NC SC GA TX TN FL AL MS AZ and so on maybe my opinion will change

It will take time to effect that magnitude of change. At least one generation, probably more likely 2 or 3 would need to pass in order to see that kind of change take hold in the local sporting culture, and to bring in the talent levels required for the NHL.

but if some NHL god or whatever came to me and said would i give up my team to move to Canada i would say yes,knowing that the team would be loved and followed for years by many hockey nuts who may actually go on and play for them

Of course the Canadians may play for the team anyway, even if it is playing in Carolina. Wouldn't it be better to increase your potential talent pool down the road by keeping the game in newer territories for interest in hockey to grow?

if you live in the southern US,get NHL network,and notice the diffidence between a Cyote/Preads/Panthers game than a Canadian team,ask a random man in NC what a blue line is............he'll look at the road and tell you the lines are white and yellow

Actually he'll probably say it tells you where the ball is on the football field, but the Hurricanes have only been in state for a little over a decade. That is not nearly enough time to cultivate and grow the game locally.

I can boast for what he is saying. Here in the Phoenix area, there has been a 75% increase for youth hockey leagues than the last decade before the Coyotes arrived. More kids will attend the game here at jobing.com. It has become a family affair. This will have more kids hooked to hockey that by 20 years from now, they will be Coyote fans and bring their kids, and wala you have yourself a fan base

[yoo]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

[Gary]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Oh i'll disagree with you with Phoenix, if you haven't read my last post, the fan base right now is around the families and the kids. There are adult fans who will go there, but right now it won't happen. With someone who had a child. The one thing she looked forward to more was going to a Coyotes game. Nashville maybe, Florida yeah, but when you realize how much youth hockey we have just because of the Coyotes and the fan base right now that is very much so growing it won't happen. Rome wasn't built in a day, but just because you want to move them because it's not your type of market is wrong. Plus with the lease for jobing.com Arena being sealed tight, I doubt they will be moving anytime

[Mac the Knife]

i'd give up my team for canada to have another team,don't get me wrong i love my canes......but in the long run atleast i know even with 0 wins they'ed be supported and loved in a place like Winnipeg or Hamilton....or even in SSK

as long as the Canadian city wasn't QC or T.O.,screw those places

You're a jackhole. Turn in your NC membership card and get the hell out of our state.

[rams80]

i'd give up my team for canada to have another team,don't get me wrong i love my canes......but in the long run atleast i know even with 0 wins they'ed be supported and loved in a place like Winnipeg or Hamilton....or even in SSK

as long as the Canadian city wasn't QC or T.O.,screw those places

You're a jackhole. Turn in your NC membership card and get the hell out of our state.

Is this going to be part of your campaign platform?

[yoo]

i'd give up my team for canada to have another team,don't get me wrong i love my canes......but in the long run atleast i know even with 0 wins they'ed be supported and loved in a place like Winnipeg or Hamilton....or even in SSK

as long as the Canadian city wasn't QC or T.O.,screw those places

You're a jackhole. Turn in your NC membership card and get the hell out of our state.

,yes because North Carolina is canes country........all canes all the time!

you live in Raleigh,in 2 months turn on your local sports radio and watch them take a backseat to state duke and carolina basketball,then wait a few years and see Stamkos and Ovechkin never allow the canes in the play-offs

hell and i'm a canes fan from stall and rod all the way down to tripp tracey,soon enough the league will stop living off of toronto,revenue sharing is great for sports.......but it makes every market think they deserve a team,hell a 2nd team in T.O. will probably make the all the owners rich

[Island_Style]

I know the perfect city for the NHL. Jacksonville, Florida!!!

Calm down, I'm kidding.

[Still MIGHTY]

I live in one of those southern cities, and yeah maybe putting a second team in SoCal didn't seem great at the time, but the Ducks are an entrenched part of the community now. They do more charity work for children, sick, and youth hockey down here than in many other places, including more than our oh so polite neighbors in LA. The Kings do a lot, but I'd wager to say the Ducks do more. The Ducks have spearheaded the effort to start a SoCal High School hockey league. Now there aren't a lot of ice rinks around, but the ones that are are absolutely stretched for ice time. I know my local ice palace is just packed with youth teams, they get in and get out in a packed fashion. Ice time is booked from the time it opens until about 11 at night (when there is broomball games ). Just as Gary and Rams80 said about the Coyotes and Stars doing things for youth hockey and getting people excited about hockey, the same can be said for Ducks hockey in OC, and even in Riverside/San Diego. The Jr Ducks are actually one of the most competitive teams in the nation. I believe they won some youth tournament in Canada last year. Hell, the Ducks even got their new ECHL affiliate in Bakersfield. The Kings have their ECHL affiliate in Ontario, CA.

Trust me, hockey isn't going anywhere fast down here.

Especially when the Ducks are on the front of each day's Sports section of the OC Register. Even when the Lakers or Clippers are on.

But yeah, before another team in Toronto, get the effort going in Winnipeg, Regina, Quebec City. If Winnipeg and Regina can support CFL teams, why couldn't they support NHL teams?

Also, based on what I've seen, the two teams most likely for relocation would be Nashville and Florida. The Ducks, Kings, Sharks, Coyotes, Stars, Lightning, Hurricanes, and Thrashers are fine. Nashville and FLorida have both had about 1 good year each and they haven't been able to carry the buzz and the fans from year to year.

[rams80]

But yeah, before another team in Toronto, get the effort going in Winnipeg, Regina, Quebec City. If Winnipeg and Regina can support CFL teams, why couldn't they support NHL teams?

It's one thing to show up for an athletic event that occurs 10-12 times a year, with no less than a week between occurrences. It's another to show up for an event that occurs 41 times a year with multiple games in a week.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Let me just state for the record that I've seen it happen. I grew up in the Quad Cities area (Illinois-Iowa border) that didn't have youth hockey and didn't have a pro hockey team. In fact, I remember a kid who moved from Minnesota joining the basketball team in junior high having never played it before because all he played was hockey -- and getting made fun of for it. That was the state of hockey in that area roughly around 1987. It wasn't on the radar. An area that actively rooted for Chicago teams like the Bears, Cubs and Sox but never mentioned the Blackhawks, in my experience.

Then the CHL/UHL Mallards came to town around 1995 and the QC goes hockey crazy. Record turnouts, etc. A youth hockey center is built, club teams start popping up. The Mallards win titles. The CBA's Quad-City Thunder, 2-time champs themselves, and the buzz of the town back in '87, go under. In 2007 the QC, who wanted for years to have triple A baseball, get the AHL Flames.

And now, two decades after the incident above, my friends who still live there are all telling me about their kids' hockey teams.

I don't know how well the Flames are doing, and I'm not saying the area is a total hockey hotbed now, but hockey didn't "exist" twenty years ago there.

So if a team from the Colonial Hockey League -- which was so bad I wandered away from my first WWF-esque fight-filled game asking "What was that?" Thankfully an NHL exhibition came the next year -- can transform a community in a decade or so, I have to think the NHL will also have an impact in many of these cities, if they haven't already. I won't say that it will work everywhere, but it will work over time. I feel the same way about the Marlins and Rays in baseball... there are kids growing up as fans of these teams.

All that said, I hope Canada gets more franchises, preferably relocated ones rather than expansion.

[Perfect Zero]

I can vouch for the Sothern hockey influence. When the Minnesota North Stars moved to Dallas, people wen't puck crazy. Over the past few years, the team has tried to get Texans on the ice at the Junior High School level, and my high school hockey team is more popular than the football team. The men and women who take the ice really promote their team in school, and a lot of the students are starting to learn about the sport.

I would like to see Canada get more teams too, since this is really their league, but I think that having teams that take the time to reach out to the community are a real asset to the sport as a whole.

[OMMF]

i'm know Dallas has done a lot for southern hockey and should stay in dallas,but when i started watching games and see players being introduced from NC SC GA TX TN FL AL MS AZ and so on maybe my opinion will change

The Seattle Thunderbirds have a kid from CA and a kid from TX. Clearly, something must be going right in these states if these boys are good enough to make a team in the best junior developmental league.

[Mac the Knife]

i'd give up my team for canada to have another team,don't get me wrong i love my canes......but in the long run atleast i know even with 0 wins they'ed be supported and loved in a place like Winnipeg or Hamilton....or even in SSK

as long as the Canadian city wasn't QC or T.O.,screw those places

You're a jackhole. Turn in your NC membership card and get the hell out of our state.

Is this going to be part of your campaign platform?

No one gets elected unanimously these days. If you're going to lose a vote, you might as well lose it by speaking your mind.

[Lee.]

But yeah, before another team in Toronto, get the effort going in Winnipeg, Regina, Quebec City. If Winnipeg and Regina can support CFL teams, why couldn't they support NHL teams?

It's one thing to show up for an athletic event that occurs 10-12 times a year, with no less than a week between occurrences. It's another to show up for an event that occurs 41 times a year with multiple games in a week.

This.

Trust me, I know Winnipeg. It's easy to get 27,000 to a Bomber game when there are only 9 days at $35 a pop. WHen you factor in 42 games at $80, then people are going to tune out in a hurry. It'll be a blinding success for the first couple of years, and then you'll only see full stands at Leaf/Habs/Bruins games, because those are the teams that the ticket buyers' dads liked, so they're coming to see THEM, not the home side.

[Magnus]

The problem is ticket prices.

If the NHL could negotiate a TV deal with Europe in the same way the NFL is marketed to Americans, they could rake in billions.

Revenue sharing would then be able to significantly help smaller-market teams - nullifying the need for $80 ticket prices. I think $30 tickets could be a reality if that happened.

But since they haven't done that, I will do it myself with my (as of right now, imaginary) XHL.

16 teams in Canada - 16 EU countries.

(Yes, I know how unlikely that sounds, but I figured out ownership for all of them. A few would be owned by fans, like the Packers.)

All 16 countries would get TV rights to each of the 16 teams as well.

The bill would be footed collectively by the EU, in order to give the poorer countries a bit of a break.

Each team would play a 16-game schedule, so it could be aired in prime time every weekend for the European countries, while still being held in the afternoon on the North American continent.

Why would they want that many broadcasts available?

32 of the players would be top-ranked players from the 16 countries.

The Ovechkins, Kolzigs, Sundins, etc. would be the reason to tune in week after week.

[Jer15]

How many times does the "2nd team in Toronto" thing need to come up before we see that it's not happening.

I think what Chris said about the split in Leafs fans-vs- disgruntled Leafs fans or just plain hockey fans is correct, but let's face it going to Hamilton, or even London makes alot more sence.

In those cities your tapping into a market that A) has hosted NHL exhibition games with success (I know, I know. one game versus 41 is a huge difference) has supported minor league hockey for a long time

C) is out of the Leafs territorial rights, but still close enough to draw from the GTA (more so Hamilton than London, but London can draw from Sarnia and Windsor)

and

D) Has an arena that can support the NHL, assuming the owner is will to expand/upgrade the arena.

Also, stop picking on Phoenix guys, lol.

I don't profess that I think the NHL belong in Phoenix but let's face it, as long as they are doing enough to stay afloat and mr. Gretzky is part of the ownership they aren't going anywhere.

Plus let's look at the preds and panthers first.