A Fraud caught Juicing in 2003

[Mac the Knife]

a drug. I can't give you the name of it, but the lady knew what she was talking about.

He was definitely on the juice.

I say you blow goats. Just because I say so doesn't necessarily make it so, however. As I said, I personally need more evidence.

[TFoA]

a drug. I can't give you the name of it, but the lady knew what she was talking about.

He was definitely on the juice.

I say you blow goats. Just because I say so doesn't necessarily make it so, however. As I said, I personally need more evidence.

And knowing how much the media just 'loves' them some A-Rod, that evidence is going to arrive pretty soon.

[Jigga]

a drug. I can't give you the name of it, but the lady knew what she was talking about.

He was definitely on the juice.

I say you blow goats. Just because I say so doesn't necessarily make it so, however. As I said, I personally need more evidence.

That was Cyclopsis Joe.

Wouldn't the failed test result(s?) be proof enough?

[rams80]

I'm sure that Maddux wasn't either. We have never heard Griffey's name either. I hope to never hear it in steroid talks because he was supposed to be the one to break all the records and become the home run champion. In a way, people are looking at him different now not because he was hurt all that time and didn't make it to the milestones, but because by not taking the stuff, he decided that he wasn't bigger than the game, where people like Bonds and Sosa wanted to be bigger than the game itself. So they did a selfish thing.

I love revisionist history.

Back when they were knocking 'em out of the fracking park it was "for the good of the game." Why isn't it anymore?

FWIW, baseball has a pay system that is incentivized on a performance basis without a pay cap. Why wouldn't any rational actor in such a setting try to maximize their income? The players became bigger than the game because the MLB encouraged this behavior in an effort to return to national prominence. Why should we blame the players for acting in a manner expected by the league?

[Jigga]

Who's to say that Griffey's late career injury woes weren't a result of him going off whatever he was using? Griffey got fat and his knees got bad...both could suggest he was on something at some point.

He is my favorite player of all-time, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn The Kid was using The Juice.

[JayJaxon]

I'm sure that Maddux wasn't either. We have never heard Griffey's name either. I hope to never hear it in steroid talks because he was supposed to be the one to break all the records and become the home run champion. In a way, people are looking at him different now not because he was hurt all that time and didn't make it to the milestones, but because by not taking the stuff, he decided that he wasn't bigger than the game, where people like Bonds and Sosa wanted to be bigger than the game itself. So they did a selfish thing.

I love revisionist history.

Back when they were knocking 'em out of the fracking park it was "for the good of the game." Why isn't it anymore?

FWIW, baseball has a pay system that is incentivized on a performance basis without a pay cap. Why wouldn't any rational actor in such a setting try to maximize their income? The players became bigger than the game because the MLB encouraged this behavior in an effort to return to national prominence. Why should we blame the players for acting in a manner expected by the league?

The players are paid based on their performance, just like in every other sport. Major League Baseball did not go tell these players to get loaded on juice and go out there. The 1998 season was good for the game at the time, but at what cost? Look at the two heros from 1998 now. The problem is money and it always will be. But What I am getting at is that players such as Griffey and Maddux will be looked at in a greater light now because they made a different choice than so many others made.

Not to mention, the prospect of more money isn't a reason to go out and do something wrong. There is no excuse for that, no matter what the motivation is.

[rams80]

I'm sure that Maddux wasn't either. We have never heard Griffey's name either. I hope to never hear it in steroid talks because he was supposed to be the one to break all the records and become the home run champion. In a way, people are looking at him different now not because he was hurt all that time and didn't make it to the milestones, but because by not taking the stuff, he decided that he wasn't bigger than the game, where people like Bonds and Sosa wanted to be bigger than the game itself. So they did a selfish thing.

I love revisionist history.

Back when they were knocking 'em out of the fracking park it was "for the good of the game." Why isn't it anymore?

FWIW, baseball has a pay system that is incentivized on a performance basis without a pay cap. Why wouldn't any rational actor in such a setting try to maximize their income? The players became bigger than the game because the MLB encouraged this behavior in an effort to return to national prominence. Why should we blame the players for acting in a manner expected by the league?

The players are paid based on their performance, just like in every other sport. Major League Baseball did not go tell these players to get loaded on juice and go out there. The 1998 season was good for the game at the time, but at what cost? Look at the two heros from 1998 now. The problem is money and it always will be. But What I am getting at is that players such as Griffey and Maddux will be looked at in a greater light now because they made a different choice than so many others made.

Theoretically. Not every performance enhancer blows you up like a balloon.

You're right baseball didn't explicitly tell them to use steroids. However, the financial model of baseball, as well as baseball's willingness to turn a blind eye to steroid use, sure as hell was an implicit invitation to juice.

Not to mention, the prospect of more money isn't a reason to go out and do something wrong. There is no excuse for that, no matter what the motivation is.

Our society and system, at its most base level, rewards and encourages greed. Rational actors in such a system will always try to extract the most money possible.

[JayJaxon]

I'm sure that Maddux wasn't either. We have never heard Griffey's name either. I hope to never hear it in steroid talks because he was supposed to be the one to break all the records and become the home run champion. In a way, people are looking at him different now not because he was hurt all that time and didn't make it to the milestones, but because by not taking the stuff, he decided that he wasn't bigger than the game, where people like Bonds and Sosa wanted to be bigger than the game itself. So they did a selfish thing.

I love revisionist history.

Back when they were knocking 'em out of the fracking park it was "for the good of the game." Why isn't it anymore?

FWIW, baseball has a pay system that is incentivized on a performance basis without a pay cap. Why wouldn't any rational actor in such a setting try to maximize their income? The players became bigger than the game because the MLB encouraged this behavior in an effort to return to national prominence. Why should we blame the players for acting in a manner expected by the league?

The players are paid based on their performance, just like in every other sport. Major League Baseball did not go tell these players to get loaded on juice and go out there. The 1998 season was good for the game at the time, but at what cost? Look at the two heros from 1998 now. The problem is money and it always will be. But What I am getting at is that players such as Griffey and Maddux will be looked at in a greater light now because they made a different choice than so many others made.

Theoretically. Not every performance enhancer blows you up like a balloon.

You're right baseball didn't explicitly tell them to use steroids. However, the financial model of baseball, as well as baseball's willingness to turn a blind eye to steroid use, sure as hell was an implicit invitation to juice.

Not to mention, the prospect of more money isn't a reason to go out and do something wrong. There is no excuse for that, no matter what the motivation is.

Our society and system, at its most base level, rewards and encourages greed. Rational actors in such a system will always try to extract the most money possible.

I understand Your argument. I really do. Greed and taking it to the next level by any means necessary is rewarded in our society. Steroids were not illegal in the sport when it was being used in the late 1990s on. But if there was nothing wrong with it, then it would not have been kept under wraps for as long as it was. Professional athletes have a responsibility; and I know this could spawn a whole new argument, but hear me out. These people know that they have people following them and children idolizing them and yet it seems they can only think about themselves. Barry Bonds was a prick before he took the stuff. So now the media is doing all they can to get their payback. But had Bonds been good with the fans and the media and still did PEDs, I would have the same opinion I have now. It is wrong and its a shame that fans are getting turned away and kids are being disappointed because of it. Does this society as a whole reward such things? Yes, at the time they do. But they will all eventually pay the price for what they did.

[RichardWitham]

ty cobb is in the hall, as long as he is in there your argument is invalid

[JayJaxon]

ty cobb is in the hall, as long as he is in there your argument is invalid

What does that have to do with anything? Being a racist is wrong, but it didn't help him play better.

[RichardWitham]

it means if people dont want barry in the hall, then ty cobb shouldnt be in, he's worse than barry. all barry did was piss off s-portswriters. everyone used steroids, just call it the steroid era and dont hold it against them and move on

[JayJaxon]

it means if people dont want barry in the hall, then ty cobb shouldnt be in, he's worse than barry. all barry did was piss off s-portswriters. everyone used steroids, just call it the steroid era and dont hold it against them and move on

What I am trying to figure out is what the link is between Ty Cobb and Barry Bonds. Why is Cobb the basis for your argument? Also, I don't buy that everyone used steroids. Of course everyone didn't use them. A lot of players did, but not everyone.

[RichardWitham]

ty cobb was a bad person, if you listen to the media, so was bonds. we all know that is hogwash on bonds. but because he pissed off sportswriters he wont get into the hall and that is a damn shame. and if you go by his records, bonds deserves to go into the hall. just take steroids out of it. but if we are compairing situations here, ty cob was a racist and yet he still got in, but because bonds used steroids he doesnt? WTF?

[dfwabel]

For those who have lived the the DFW Metroplex, this is not that big story, but realize that there is a connection with steroid and the Texas Rangers, and the connection is still there.

Reported players who used:

Jose Canseco

Ivan Rodriguez

Juan Gonzalez

Rafael Palmerio

Alex Rodriguez

Sammy Sosa (2nd time around; He had a damn productive final season)

Batting coach since 1994-Current:

Rudy Jaramillo

Honestly, I would not be surprised if the following former Rangers also used:

Gabe Kapler

Rubén Sierra

Dean Palmer (a torn bicep in 1995)

Mickey Tettleton

[JayJaxon]

ty cobb was a bad person, if you listen to the media, so was bonds. we all know that is hogwash on bonds. but because he pissed off sportswriters he wont get into the hall and that is a damn shame. and if you go by his records, bonds deserves to go into the hall. just take steroids out of it. but if we are compairing situations here, ty cob was a racist and yet he still got in, but because bonds used steroids he doesnt? WTF?

Okay, now I see what you are getting at.

Ty Cobb wasn't the greatest person. He didn't get along with the media, or fans, or players, or...well, you get it. But the difference between Cobb and Bonds is that Cobb acquired all of his statistics without cheating. He spiked infielders and threw out an obscenity or three, but he didn't take anything to enhance his performance. Bonds did take the stuff, and whats more is that he lied about it to try to salvage what little image he had left. It was disrespectful to Hank Aaron and all he stood for. It was disrespectful to all the fans that watched him and all the kids that wanted to be like him. Baseball would have been just fine had Bonds been clean and retired with 600 or so home runs. He could have avoided being the poster boy for steroids by not taking them at all. He made that choice and knew what it could lead to. It was the same sort of choice that Joe Jackson and Pete Rose made and have paid for. You do something wrong, and you will not be easily forgiven.

[See Red]

I say this as a Red Sox fan who hates A-Rod... Who cares?

I can't imagine he was doing steroids two years ago when he hit .314 with 54 HR's and 156 RBI's. The only reason I take so much joy in this is because a lot of Yankees fans I've come across were so certain he'd never cheated. And A-Roid makes for a great nickname.

And in regards to whether A-Rod has the body type of a steroid user... the man is a physical freak. He's a pretty big guy. Also.. "Primobolan, also known as methenolone, is an injected or orally administered drug. It improves strength and maintains lean muscle with minimal bulk development and few side effects. It is not an approved prescription drug in the United States. Testosterone can be taken legally with a prescription."

I wouldn't be surprised if David Ortiz, Varitek, Trot Nixon, and Nomar were on that list... I would actually be surprised if Manny was, honestly, and I'd be very surprised if Pedro was among them. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeter was on steroids, too. And frankly, I don't really care anymore. I think it's a relatively clean game now.

[Seadragon76]

Well, hearing this I thought to myself that I, as a Mariners fan, am feeling a bit vindicated for his actions before taking that monster deal with the Rangers.

Why? Well, I thought he would be the cornerstone of a possible M's dynasty for years. Instead, he runs off for the money and turns into a huge albatross that Texas couldn't get rid until 3 years ago when the Yankees took that contract.

You see, I think A-Rod only craves two things: Money and the spotlight. He got neither in Seattle. He only had the money in Texas. Now, he has both in New York and he's not doing so hot. This only adds fuel to an already red hot fire that is starting to trap A-Rod in the proverbial corner.

[TFoA]

I say this as a Red Sox fan who hates A-Rod... Who cares?

I can't imagine he was doing steroids two years ago when he hit .314 with 54 HR's and 156 RBI's. The only reason I take so much joy in this is because a lot of Yankees fans I've come across were so certain he'd never cheated. And A-Roid makes for a great nickname.

And in regards to whether A-Rod has the body type of a steroid user... the man is a physical freak. He's a pretty big guy.

I wouldn't be surprised if David Ortiz, Varitek, Trot Nixon, and Nomar were on that list... I would actually be surprised if Manny was, honestly, and I'd be very surprised if Pedro was among them. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeter was on steroids, too. And frankly, I don't really care anymore. I think it's a relatively clean game now.

That's all that matters to me. Pretty much everybody from that era either got clean thanks to fear of being outed/Mitchell Report/Stronger drug testing or fell out of the league completely.

And I suppose that I agree with you on the whole "Who cares" sentiment. I used to get riled up about the argument, now it really doesn't matter. The better question to ask of the Steroid Era would be who didn't dope up, because now it seems so prevalent. Even if they weren't heavy users, you could surmise that 1 out of 3 players in the MLB in that era were on the juice as either heavy users or "I just did it once to get back from an injury quicker." Which is why I really don't care anymore. It's not like you can punish them NOW for what they did THEN, unless they have HOF-type numbers and this could possibly keep them from getting in...but other than that, what can you do, other than say "Oh he was on it? Figures."

[tp49]

ty cobb was a bad person, if you listen to the media, so was bonds. we all know that is hogwash on bonds. but because he pissed off sportswriters he wont get into the hall and that is a damn shame. and if you go by his records, bonds deserves to go into the hall. just take steroids out of it. but if we are compairing situations here, ty cob was a racist and yet he still got in, but because bonds used steroids he doesnt? WTF?

Using this logic than Juan Marichal shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame either. I mean Marichal did commit a crime on the field when he clubbed Johnny Roseboro with the bat back in 1965.

[Mac the Knife]

a drug. I can't give you the name of it, but the lady knew what she was talking about.

He was definitely on the juice.

I say you blow goats. Just because I say so doesn't necessarily make it so, however. As I said, I personally need more evidence.

And knowing how much the media just 'loves' them some A-Rod, that evidence is going to arrive pretty soon.

And if/when it does, you and I can put him in the same category as Bonds, Clemens, etc.: undeserving of HOF consideration.