Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[ESTONES6]

The Big Ten announced that the new, 14-team divisional alignments (featuring MAryland and Rutgers) will be unveiled sometime in spring.

It's not exactly news, but they've at least committed to a time frame for announcing the layout. Here's hoping they go East-West, but it'll be a moot point once they go to 16 teams anyway.

I think it all depends on their time frame for adding the 15th and 16th schools. I believe their end game will have Michigan and Ohio State in separate divisions (as they rightfully should be), with a a divisional cycle. Each team plays the 3 teams in their division, plus all 4 teams from another division, and a protected cross over game i.e. Michigan/Ohio State (there will be a Protected Cross Over "B" game on the years that the protected cross over is in the same division cycle for that year.), to bring the total to 8 Conference games per year.

If the B16 TEN already has 15 and 16 lined up (which they do) and have back room commitments from them (which they probably do), then they may shove Michigan and Ohio State in the same division for 1 or 2 years, until 15 and 16 become full members... which I full anticipate to be either in 2015 or 2016.

Obviously the league wanted competitive fairness at the forefront the last time they set up divisions. It's no surprise that they intentionally split Nebraska/Michigan from Ohio State/Penn State. Same goes for the "B-list" schools, Wisconsin and Iowa.

I'd argue that over the last several years, Wisconsin and Michigan State have elevated their play while Nebraska, Michigan and Penn State are largely in a holding pattern. Also assuming that schools #15 and #16 are east coast teams, you could split the league east and west but carve up the two Michigan schools and ensure a protected Wolverine-Sparty game every year.

East: Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Indiana, Maryland, Rutgers, Team 15, Team 16.

West: Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Michigan State

No doubt some would say that this unbalances the "Big 4" by putting Nebraska by itself (and OSU, UM, PSU together), but I'd counter that Nebraska plus Wisconsin, MSU, Iowa and Northwestern makes just as equally a strong division as putting the "Other 3" in the east division. The only way this doesn't work is if Teams 15 and 16 are like Virginia Tech and Florida State, but I doubt that.

LOL @ Michigan and Michigan State. The B16 TEN is worried about THE RIVALRY... not other rivalries. They wouldn't put Michigan and Ohio State in the same division when they could easily flip flop Michigan State and Michigan, resulting in Michigan and Ohio State in separate divisions, with the protected cross over in tact.

I actually agree with that. I feel that the "Big 4" need to be split 2-and-2, but the old timey Big Ten fans will protest. You know, the same old farts who talk about Woody & Bo and act like Penn State still isn't part of the league. Hell, Nebraska might as well be on Mars to those guys.

The B16 TEN bread gets buttered with the Michigan Ohio State game. It makes it worth that much more if they have the POTENTIAL to play eachother for the B16 TEN championship every year.

[McCall]

Latest on possible TV deal for the "Catholic 7".

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8817624/fleeing-big-east-schools-working-lucrative-tv-deal-basketball

[BBTV]

I don't understand a 12-year deal, from neither the league's perspective nor the network's.

The league isn't even finished growing yet. Are they even an offiial league yet? I would assume that they'd have to add a few more teams in order to be a legit basketball conference. What if one or two of those teams is a surprise and boosts the prestige of the league or the size of the markets enough that it makes the 12-year deal seem small? 12 years is a long time to renegotiate. Also frm the network's perspective, you're paying for an unknown. What if this "catholic 7" thing doesn't grow, or just doesn't work out at all, and teams defect elsewhere? Again, 12 years is a big risk.

[McCall]

I don't understand a 12-year deal, from neither the league's perspective nor the network's.

The league isn't even finished growing yet. Are they even an offiial league yet? I would assume that they'd have to add a few more teams in order to be a legit basketball conference. What if one or two of those teams is a surprise and boosts the prestige of the league or the size of the markets enough that it makes the 12-year deal seem small? 12 years is a long time to renegotiate. Also frm the network's perspective, you're paying for an unknown. What if this "catholic 7" thing doesn't grow, or just doesn't work out at all, and teams defect elsewhere? Again, 12 years is a big risk.

They are verylegitimate. They carry an auto-bid and could very easily add at least 3 teams to get to 10, probably to 12, even if they may only need to get to 8. Most of them are already high quality basketball programs in major markets and potential new schools could also add more markets. I don't know too much about tv contracts and all that, but as far as the success of the new conference, I'd say they have a pretty good outlook.

[rams80]

I don't understand a 12-year deal, from neither the league's perspective nor the network's.

The league isn't even finished growing yet. Are they even an offiial league yet? I would assume that they'd have to add a few more teams in order to be a legit basketball conference. What if one or two of those teams is a surprise and boosts the prestige of the league or the size of the markets enough that it makes the 12-year deal seem small? 12 years is a long time to renegotiate. Also frm the network's perspective, you're paying for an unknown. What if this "catholic 7" thing doesn't grow, or just doesn't work out at all, and teams defect elsewhere? Again, 12 years is a big risk.

They are verylegitimate. They carry an auto-bid and could very easily add at least 3 teams to get to 10, probably to 12, even if they may only need to get to 8. Most of them are already high quality basketball programs in major markets and potential new schools could also add more markets. I don't know too much about tv contracts and all that, but as far as the success of the new conference, I'd say they have a pretty good outlook.

No they don't. At least for year 1. And I suspect the fee has far more to do with Fox being absolutely desperate for content (any content!) rather than any real sign of fan interest, because the days of major basketball-only Conferences commanding national attention have passed.

Oh, BTW Proskauer Rose is apparently helping to represent these jokers. Don't expect major strides in student/athlete rights out of this Conference.

[McCall]

I don't understand a 12-year deal, from neither the league's perspective nor the network's.

The league isn't even finished growing yet. Are they even an offiial league yet? I would assume that they'd have to add a few more teams in order to be a legit basketball conference. What if one or two of those teams is a surprise and boosts the prestige of the league or the size of the markets enough that it makes the 12-year deal seem small? 12 years is a long time to renegotiate. Also frm the network's perspective, you're paying for an unknown. What if this "catholic 7" thing doesn't grow, or just doesn't work out at all, and teams defect elsewhere? Again, 12 years is a big risk.

They are verylegitimate. They carry an auto-bid and could very easily add at least 3 teams to get to 10, probably to 12, even if they may only need to get to 8. Most of them are already high quality basketball programs in major markets and potential new schools could also add more markets. I don't know too much about tv contracts and all that, but as far as the success of the new conference, I'd say they have a pretty good outlook.

No they don't. At least for year 1. And I suspect the fee has far more to do with Fox being absolutely desperate for content (any content!) rather than any real sign of fan interest, because the days of major basketball-only Conferences commanding national attention have passed.

Oh, BTW Proskauer Rose is apparently helping to represent these jokers. Don't expect major strides in student/athlete rights out of this Conference.

Where have you heard they don't retain the bid? All I've heard is that as a group of 7 schools who have been together for 5 years, they retain an automatic bid.

[The_Admiral]

Oh, BTW Proskauer Rose is apparently helping to represent these jokers. Don't expect major strides in student/athlete rights out of this Conference.

Hahahahaha the evil of Proskauer Rose apparently knows no bounds. In honor of them, I now propose that we call this league the You Should Just Be Happy To Even Have A League.

[rams80]

I don't understand a 12-year deal, from neither the league's perspective nor the network's.

The league isn't even finished growing yet. Are they even an offiial league yet? I would assume that they'd have to add a few more teams in order to be a legit basketball conference. What if one or two of those teams is a surprise and boosts the prestige of the league or the size of the markets enough that it makes the 12-year deal seem small? 12 years is a long time to renegotiate. Also frm the network's perspective, you're paying for an unknown. What if this "catholic 7" thing doesn't grow, or just doesn't work out at all, and teams defect elsewhere? Again, 12 years is a big risk.

They are verylegitimate. They carry an auto-bid and could very easily add at least 3 teams to get to 10, probably to 12, even if they may only need to get to 8. Most of them are already high quality basketball programs in major markets and potential new schools could also add more markets. I don't know too much about tv contracts and all that, but as far as the success of the new conference, I'd say they have a pretty good outlook.

No they don't. At least for year 1. And I suspect the fee has far more to do with Fox being absolutely desperate for content (any content!) rather than any real sign of fan interest, because the days of major basketball-only Conferences commanding national attention have passed.

Oh, BTW Proskauer Rose is apparently helping to represent these jokers. Don't expect major strides in student/athlete rights out of this Conference.

Where have you heard they don't retain the bid? All I've heard is that as a group of 7 schools who have been together for 5 years, they retain an automatic bid.

You heard wrong. The bid stays with the Big East Conference; they'd have to apply to get one from the NCAA, so there would be a year or more in which they didn't have the auto-bid.

[dfwabel]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

[McCall]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

[ESTONES6]

Has anyone thought about the B16 TEN adding basketball only schools? I'm curious to see the financial benefit it could add to the BTN contract.

[Seadragon76]

Has anyone thought about the B16 TEN adding basketball only schools? I'm curious to see the financial benefit it could add to the BTN contract.

Not much. Remember, all of this movement is largely done for football purposes, so basketball only schools won't be seen as valuable because they have one sport as it's money maker.

Even then, what good would it do to add a school for just one sport?

[ESTONES6]

Has anyone thought about the B16 TEN adding basketball only schools? I'm curious to see the financial benefit it could add to the BTN contract.

Not much. Remember, all of this movement is largely done for football purposes, so basketball only schools won't be seen as valuable because they have one sport as it's money maker.

Even then, what good would it do to add a school for just one sport?

Just curious. Since the B16 TEN gets a higher percentage from viewers in a state that contains a school in the conference. I'm sure there is some sort of other stipulation for basketball as well, not just football. The B16 TEN is so money driven, I can't believe they wouldnt have thought about that.

[NJTank]

I hope the Catholic 7 can coax Boston College or Sienna to join to make it 8.

[dfwabel]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

Article 31.3.4 goes over the main requirements for automatic conference bids but Men's Division 1 Basketball as more conditions, like the one I posted previously.

Article 20.02.5 defines multi-sport conference membership and gives the guidelines which you are talking about, line Continuity (20.02.5.4) as well as the two year Grace Period (20.02.5.5), but a Grace Period is defined for a conference which becomes non-compliant, not a newly formed one with members who were together for eight consecutive years.

And specifically for Men's Basketball, current Bylaws require that the tournament has a minimum of 34 at-large bids. Breakaway conferences may help the push past 68 teams.

[McCall]

I hope the Catholic 7 can coax Boston College or Sienna to join to make it 8.

They're going after basketball-only or non-FBS schools. BC's an FBS school and there are far better choices over Siena, even if they are a private Catholic school. Xavier seems like a lock. Butler, though not a Catholic school, is still seen as a likely target. And then Saint Louis, Dayton and Creighton are also potential members.

[rams80]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

The autobid is tied to the Conference. Not any members or groups of members that choose to exit en masse. Once it became apparent they would not be able to kill the Big East, whatever slim chance they had of bringing an instant autobid with them went out the window. This isn't like a divorce where assets get to be parceled out by a judge. This is the dumbass kid storming out of the house and turning his back on it with only the clothes on his back.

[rams80]

Has anyone thought about the B16 TEN adding basketball only schools? I'm curious to see the financial benefit it could add to the BTN contract.

You'd think folks would have learned from the self-destruction of the Big East, but to answer your question, there is no financial benefit that outweighs the structural instability that comes from a football league adding members who don't get this football thing.

[McCall]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

The autobid is tied to the Conference. Not any members or groups of members that choose to exit en masse. Once it became apparent they would not be able to kill the Big East, whatever slim chance they had of bringing an instant autobid with them went out the window. This isn't like a divorce where assets get to be parceled out by a judge. This is the dumbass kid storming out of the house and turning his back on it with only the clothes on his back.

As was put out there by numerous sources, any group of at least 7 schools that have been together for at least 5 years can retain an automatic bid. Now, other factors, such as what dfwabel posted, may prevent them from keeping it, but you seem to just be going with your own personal opinion as fact.

[illwauk]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

Article 31.3.4 goes over the main requirements for automatic conference bids but Men's Division 1 Basketball as more conditions, like the one I posted previously.

Article 20.02.5 defines multi-sport conference membership and gives the guidelines which you are talking about, line Continuity (20.02.5.4) as well as the two year Grace Period (20.02.5.5), but a Grace Period is defined for a conference which becomes non-compliant, not a newly formed one with members who were together for eight consecutive years.

And specifically for Men's Basketball, current Bylaws require that the tournament has a minimum of 34 at-large bids. Breakaway conferences may help the push past 68 teams.

WHY?!?!!

64 is such a perfect number for this tournament. I don't have a problem with making new conferences prove themselves worthy of an auto-bid, but once they earn it, it should come from one of the at-large spots.