The 1960's Browns logo that never was.

[elsephen]

^That actually doesn't look too bad. Hmmm...

[vmd9]

Did the Browns really use drop shadows? When?

2003 -- Back when the Browns' identity had a shred of personality.

I prefer the white facemasks, orange alternates, and that weird B-football logo to than anything about Cleveland's current motif, which consists of retro gray facemasks, solid dark brown pants, and that 90s style helmet logo.... Do the Browns try to look unorganized on purpose?

Brown and orange don't give them personality?

hey how's this for a weird football logo?

anything is better than that..."why do the Jets even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS."

[andrewharrington]

Why do the Jets even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

A-greed. Terrible primary logo, boring color scheme, cropped shoulder stripes, cream colored helmets with white colored uniforms. Quite the eyesore.

[IceCap]

Wow vmd9, you seem to have it out for DirtyCurty.

The Jets identity is pretty well put together. They have their primary logo and uniforms that pay homage to a classic look but are also progressive at the same time. Nothing's a mess. It's very well put together.

The Browns, on the other hand, have an identity that's all over the place. The grey facemasks don't go with anything else. They've tweaked their uniforms more times since "coming back" then a team with a classic identity should.

The current uniform set itself is all over the place. The solid brown socks, the solid brown pants, and the wordmark under the collar say "modern" but the grey facemasks say "throwback." On top of that they have a variety of different logos. The helmet is the primary, but the =B= is used for women's apparel, the bulldog is used for kids' apparel, the elf makes an appearance here and there, and they even have a designated "vintage" logo that consists of little more then two completely different wordmarks/fonts. It gets better though. Along with the vintage logo comes a different shade of orange, one of the primary colours.

Compared to that mess, the Jets are a very well put together team, at least as far as identities go.

Why do the Jets even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

A-greed. Terrible primary logo, boring color scheme, cropped shoulder stripes, cream colored helmets with white colored uniforms. Quite the eyesore.

The Jets' logo is indeed terrible. But at least it stands alone as the sole visual mark of the team. The funky football logo vmd posted is, for all practical purposes, unused. The Jets logo, opinions of it aside, at least accomplishes what a logo is supposed to do. The Browns lack that. They have a variety of different logos, and even an alternate colour scheme.

[Cujo]

Brown and orange don't give them personality?

Yes, their colors are unique. However, I find brown and orange to be one of the dullest color combos in the entire league -- No personality whatsoever.

hey how's this for a weird football logo?

Easy, tiger. I was attempting to give the B-Football logo some props. I find it to be much better than anything the Browns have ever tried using as a logo in their history.

[IceCap]

It seems the reaction of Browns fans when confronted with any opinion that casts their team in a negative light is to ignore the issues being raised and just badmouth whatever team the so called "attacker" likes.

So andy, vmd9, please listen carefully. Though I do not like the colour scheme the Browns use it is the only colour scheme I would ever want to see them use. So calm down, I'm not suggesting they dump the brown and orange. Likewise I don't want to slap a logo on the helmet. I simply want them to use the =B= logo as the team's primary for use at centre field, for the networks, etc.... So again, calm down guys, I'm not suggesting they put anything on the helmet. I do want to see them go back to white facemasks though. It has enough history with the Browns to work, and it would actually tie in with the rest of the uniform.

They also need to drop the various other logos. If the =B= is made the primary, then the elf, bulldog, helmet mark, and "vintage" logo can all be retired.

So you see you don't need to resort to your usual tactic and rant about how the Chargers' look sucks. Realize that neither I nor DirtyCurty are saying the Browns need to abandon their traditional look. We're simply pointing out that the current Browns look is a mess, and with a few tweaks they could really improve their look/brand.

[TheOldRoman]

The Jets identity is pretty well put together. They have their primary logo and uniforms that pay homage to a classic look but are also progressive at the same time.

No. The Jets' look sucks. They took an old classic jersey, but tried to "update" it by making the green darker. That messed the look up a little. Dark green isn't an upgrade over kelly green. And with black being imposed as a secondary color for merchandising, it looks even worse. That dark shade of green doesn't go well with black. Also, as much as the look of these uniforms was great before, they look like garbage now. They don't even come close to fitting the current template which Reebok imposes.

If the Jets cant force Reebok to respect the jersey and go with a different template (and there is no reason they shouldn't be able to), they need to scrap these jerseys altogether.

I just saw some NFL films stuff today, and the Jets early 90's look was fantastic. The primary logo was still kinda meh, but the colors were great and the unis were unique. I wish the Jets stuck with those. They certainly would have fit the current template better.

[BlueSky]

The Washington player seems to be tackling a member of the Cowboys or the Lions, not the Browns.

Looks like the early Cowboys jersey with the three blue sleeve stripes. It's no big deal though because the programs weren't done for specific games. All the games that week would have had that cover. It's just a coincidence that the Browns happened to be playing the Redskins.

[IceCap]

The Jets identity is pretty well put together. They have their primary logo and uniforms that pay homage to a classic look but are also progressive at the same time.

No. The Jets' look sucks. They took an old classic jersey, but tried to "update" it by making the green darker. That messed the look up a little. Dark green isn't an upgrade over kelly green. And with black being imposed as a secondary color for merchandising, it looks even worse. That dark shade of green doesn't go well with black. Also, as much as the look of these uniforms was great before, they look like garbage now. They don't even come close to fitting the current template which Reebok imposes.

If the Jets cant force Reebok to respect the jersey and go with a different template (and there is no reason they shouldn't be able to), they need to scrap these jerseys altogether.

I just saw some NFL films stuff today, and the Jets early 90's look was fantastic. The primary logo was still kinda meh, but the colors were great and the unis were unique. I wish the Jets stuck with those. They certainly would have fit the current template better.

What either of us personally think of the Jets' current look is irrelevant. What I'm discussing isn't aesthetics, but brand unity. In that sense the Jets can't be beat. They have one primary, one alternate that's used sparingly, and a simple, unique colour scheme. Their uniforms know what they want to be. You may not like the modernized throwback look, but at least it's consistent with itself. They didn't slap a grey facemask on a dark green uniform with solid socks.

Their brand is very organized. Their uniform is consistent with itself, their brand is well organized with one primary, an alternate used appropriately, and a simple colour scheme.

Compare this to the Browns. They tried the modernized throwback look with darker colours, a wordmark under the collar, solid socks, and solid pants, but then messed it up with a grey facemask. On the logo front they have their "primary" (which is just the helmet), but they also have different logos designated for different apparel. They have four alternates floating around, and one "alternate" version of the colour scheme.

Aesthetics aside the Jets have a much "tighter" brand then the Browns.

[BBTV]

What either of us personally think of the Jets' current look is irrelevant. What I'm discussing isn't aesthetics, but brand unity. In that sense the Jets can't be beat. They have one primary, one alternate that's used sparingly, and a simple, unique colour scheme. Their uniforms know what they want to be. You may not like the modernized throwback look, but at least it's consistent with itself. They didn't slap a grey facemask on a dark green uniform with solid socks.

Their brand is very organized. Their uniform is consistent with itself, their brand is well organized with one primary, an alternate used appropriately, and a simple colour scheme.

Compare this to the Browns. They tried the modernized throwback look with darker colours, a wordmark under the collar, solid socks, and solid pants, but then messed it up with a grey facemask. On the logo front they have their "primary" (which is just the helmet), but they also have different logos designated for different apparel. They have four alternates floating around, and one "alternate" version of the colour scheme.

Aesthetics aside the Jets have a much "tighter" brand then the Browns.

I would argue that their alt does nothing but damage their "brand unity". They don't have a simple color scheme (green, white, blue, gold) nor is their brand very organized. The alt really ruins things IMO.

For an example of "brand unity", I would point to the Eagles, who have very strict rules about how and where each of their marks are displayed, and stick to them, as well as having a uniform set that (whether or not you like the black jersey isn't relevant) is consistent with their colors and makes good use of their primary marks (wordmark, logo.) I think that in the last 6 years (since the '03 redesign where they threw out some of the superfluous wordmarks and logos and really streamlined the marks and uniforms) they've become the standard for brand consistency (not that there aren't some other teams that are damn good at it too.)

I see your points about the Browns (though I disagree that the wordmark under the collar and pants and socks should count as negatives, as long as they keep using them in a consistent manner and don't mess it up) but I'd say that as long as the Jets are wearing blue, they can't be considered more consistent than the Browns.

[ESTONES6]

I am a pretty die hard, classic, maintain a brand identity person... but i loved the idea of the orange jersey for the Browns. I think the drop shadow was a mistake, but i liked the orange. I would definitely not advocate this on a regular basis, but maybe for 2 games a season.

I always had this vision where every franchise should create 1 jersey a season that is worn one or 2 times per year. After the game, the players give the jersey directly to the fans. No jersey remakes of that style would ever be marketed... just t-shirts that resemble the design.

I always thought it would be a cool idea to give back to the fans in just a small way. But, again, i would love to see the Brownies do an orange jersey once per year... AND BRING BACK THE ORANGE PANTS!

[IceCap]

What either of us personally think of the Jets' current look is irrelevant. What I'm discussing isn't aesthetics, but brand unity. In that sense the Jets can't be beat. They have one primary, one alternate that's used sparingly, and a simple, unique colour scheme. Their uniforms know what they want to be. You may not like the modernized throwback look, but at least it's consistent with itself. They didn't slap a grey facemask on a dark green uniform with solid socks.

Their brand is very organized. Their uniform is consistent with itself, their brand is well organized with one primary, an alternate used appropriately, and a simple colour scheme.

Compare this to the Browns. They tried the modernized throwback look with darker colours, a wordmark under the collar, solid socks, and solid pants, but then messed it up with a grey facemask. On the logo front they have their "primary" (which is just the helmet), but they also have different logos designated for different apparel. They have four alternates floating around, and one "alternate" version of the colour scheme.

Aesthetics aside the Jets have a much "tighter" brand then the Browns.

I would argue that their alt does nothing but damage their "brand unity". They don't have a simple color scheme (green, white, blue, gold) nor is their brand very organized. The alt really ruins things IMO.

I agree. I can't stand it. Now that the AFL's 50th Anniversary is behind us, the NY Titans uniforms should be retired.

For an example of "brand unity", I would point to the Eagles, who have very strict rules about how and where each of their marks are displayed, and stick to them, as well as having a uniform set that (whether or not you like the black jersey isn't relevant) is consistent with their colors and makes good use of their primary marks (wordmark, logo.) I think that in the last 6 years (since the '03 redesign where they threw out some of the superfluous wordmarks and logos and really streamlined the marks and uniforms) they've become the standard for brand consistency (not that there aren't some other teams that are damn good at it too.)

The Eagles do have a very well put together brand. I'm just using the Jets as an example because vmd9 decided to get personal with DirtyCurty when Curty dared to say something less then glowing about his beloved Browns' identity.

I see your points about the Browns (though I disagree that the wordmark under the collar and pants and socks should count as negatives, as long as they keep using them in a consistent manner and don't mess it up) but I'd say that as long as the Jets are wearing blue, they can't be considered more consistent than the Browns.

The wordmark under the collar, the solid socks, and the solid pants aren't bad by themselves. The problem, in my opinion, is when they combine those modern elements with a grey facemask that tries to tie the look to the throwback fad. That doesn't work. When you have a throwback element like a grey facemask mixed in with modern elements such as solid socks and pants and a wordmark under the collar you have a clash of styles.

I would say that even with the NY Titans throwbacks working against them the Jets do have a more consistent identity then the Browns. The Jets' madness, at least, is contained to their alternate set. The primary set remains consistent. The Browns are inconsistent across the board.

Again there are better examples of brand unity then the Jets to compare against the Browns, but I was just using the Jets because vmd thought it necessary to bring them into the discussion when DirtyCurty brought up a valid point about the Browns mess of an identity.

EDIT- I see now that I said the "Jets can't be beat." That was a mistake on my point. I was thinking in terms of the primary set, the NY Titans throwbacks weren't even on my mind (you know how your brain tries to purge unpleasant thoughts ). So that was a mistake on my part.

I am a pretty die hard, classic, maintain a brand identity person... but i loved the idea of the orange jersey for the Browns. I think the drop shadow was a mistake, but i liked the orange. I would definitely not advocate this on a regular basis, but maybe for 2 games a season.

I always had this vision where every franchise should create 1 jersey a season that is worn one or 2 times per year. After the game, the players give the jersey directly to the fans. No jersey remakes of that style would ever be marketed... just t-shirts that resemble the design.

I always thought it would be a cool idea to give back to the fans in just a small way. But, again, i would love to see the Brownies do an orange jersey once per year... AND BRING BACK THE ORANGE PANTS!

I would be ok with both the orange jerseys and pants coming back if they showed some restraint and didn't go all orange for a game

[Nintendogmaster]

That looks ok. I could deal with it! Cause at least they would have a REAL logo!!

[ESTONES6]

yeah i would NOT want to see the solid orange uniform... it may cause seizures to those watching. Honestly... i think the Orange pants looks great with both the white and the brown jersey. And, as shown above, the Orange Jersey with white pants look great.

[andrewharrington]

I was just using the Jets because vmd thought it necessary to bring them into the discussion when DirtyCurty brought up a valid point about the Browns mess of an identity.

Fine, but surely you can't seriously tell me that Curt brought up a valid point about the Browns' mess of an identity. There was absolutely nothing tactful, constructive, intelligent or redeeming about said post:

Why do the Browns even try? Everything about their identity SUCKS!

That's an jab that adds nothing to the discussion at hand. Would the Browns be better off with striped socks? Hell yes. Would they be better off with a single, true primary logo? Sure, though I'm not convinced that the <=B=> is it anymore (I used to love it). Would they be better off ditching all the extraneous elements from their style guide and picking one set of colors for their logos? Probably, though I don't really see a problem with using vintage colors on a vintage logo that only appears on licensed apparel. I won't give up the wordmarks under the collars. I like them so long as they are small and (in most cases) one-color embroidery. We like the Browns' uniforms, but recognize that there is room for improvement.

Seriously, not everyone is as articulate and level-headed with their arguments as you, IceCap, of which I'm sure you're well aware. You're not going to find a Browns' fan on here who doesn't agree with you about this stuff (from an objective point of view, that is). You're point is made, and we, as fans, are not arguing it, even though you keep defending it. The backlash is coming from Browns' fans when people post about how they hate brown and orange, about how those colors are dull, about how they have the stupidest primary logo of all time. You can't expect a fan just leave it be when his or her team needs defending from some Opinionater on a rampage. Everything that's been said in this thread could have been said in such a way that it didn't offend the fans of the team(s) in question. Unfortunately, it hasn't.

[andrewharrington]

Personally, in addition to the striped socks home and away, I'd love to see this jersey and these socks as an alternate with the current helmet. I like the brown numbers on the orange jersey much better than the 'Clemson Dropshadows' they sported on them in the early part of the decade.

[vmd9]

I was just using the Jets because vmd thought it necessary to bring them into the discussion when DirtyCurty brought up a valid point about the Browns mess of an identity.

Fine, but surely you can't seriously tell me that Curt brought up a valid point about the Browns' mess of an identity. There was absolutely nothing tactful, constructive, intelligent or redeeming about said post:

Why do the Browns even try? Everything about their identity SUCKS!

That's an jab that adds nothing to the discussion at hand. Would the Browns be better off with striped socks? Hell yes. Would they be better off with a single, true primary logo? Sure, though I'm not convinced that the <=B=> is it anymore (I used to love it). Would they be better off ditching all the extraneous elements from their style guide and picking one set of colors for their logos? Probably, though I don't really see a problem with using vintage colors on a vintage logo that only appears on licensed apparel. I won't give up the wordmarks under the collars. I like them so long as they are small and (in most cases) one-color embroidery. We like the Browns' uniforms, but recognize that there is room for improvement.

Seriously, not everyone is as articulate and level-headed with their arguments as you, IceCap, of which I'm sure you're well aware. You're not going to find a Browns' fan on here who doesn't agree with you about this stuff (from an objective point of view, that is). You're point is made, and we, as fans, are not arguing it, even though you keep defending it. The backlash is coming from Browns' fans when people post about how they hate brown and orange, about how those colors are dull, about how they have the stupidest primary logo of all time. You can't expect a fan just leave it be when his or her team needs defending from some Opinionater on a rampage. Everything that's been said in this thread could have been said in such a way that it didn't offend the fans of the team(s) in question. Unfortunately, it hasn't.

I agree 100% I don't have a problem with the Jet's guy he just seemed to have some hatred for the Browns and everything about them. and like you said a person will not just sit around and let someone insult their team like that, especially Browns fans.

As far as changes I think a burnt orange jersey with brown numbers would look awesome. Add that as an Alternate, bring back ORANGE pants!!, and add stripe to the brown pants...I think that would make them perfect. The word mark can stay and I actually like the grey face masks better. To me they fit better with a traditional look.

[infrared41]

Why do the Jets even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

A-greed. Terrible primary logo, boring color scheme, cropped shoulder stripes, cream colored helmets with white colored uniforms. Quite the eyesore.

This coming from two guys trying to defend a team that wears those horrific brown pants. Seriously fellas?

Get with the program boys. Ice Cap has made some great suggestions on how our Browns could "tighten up" their look. Right now it's a mish-mash of poorly executed ideas. Try opening your minds instead of your mouths next time. The Browns are far from perfect right now. No one is suggesting a complete overhaul.

Oh and other than those ridiculous green pants, The Jets have one of the best looks in the league.

[Sport]

I've resigned myself to the fact that the Brown pants are going to stay for a little while so I'll take the little mini victory in that they're not wearing the solid brown socks with them (like they did in that one preseason game). I'd prefer them to go white pants, white socks on the road, but this look isn't so horrible with the striped socks.

[CJworks]

The striped socks are indeed a nice look, consistant with the sleeve striping. And personally, I'd prefer those brown pants over anything else the Browns have, they look so nice on the field.

By the way, are those socks on Cribbs' forearms?