The 1960's Browns logo that never was.

[vmd9]

here's a quick mock up of what I think would work best without a major overhaul:

-only used striped socks that match the jersey

-elf logo as primary

-added stripes to brown pants

-brought back orange pants and modified orange alt

-shoes would be black but I haven't had time to make them for the template yet

[IceCap]

I was just using the Jets because vmd thought it necessary to bring them into the discussion when DirtyCurty brought up a valid point about the Browns mess of an identity.

Fine, but surely you can't seriously tell me that Curt brought up a valid point about the Browns' mess of an identity. There was absolutely nothing tactful, constructive, intelligent or redeeming about said post:

Why do the Browns even try? Everything about their identity SUCKS!

That's an jab that adds nothing to the discussion at hand. Would the Browns be better off with striped socks? Hell yes. Would they be better off with a single, true primary logo? Sure, though I'm not convinced that the <=B=> is it anymore (I used to love it). Would they be better off ditching all the extraneous elements from their style guide and picking one set of colors for their logos? Probably, though I don't really see a problem with using vintage colors on a vintage logo that only appears on licensed apparel. I won't give up the wordmarks under the collars. I like them so long as they are small and (in most cases) one-color embroidery. We like the Browns' uniforms, but recognize that there is room for improvement.

Seriously, not everyone is as articulate and level-headed with their arguments as you, IceCap, of which I'm sure you're well aware. You're not going to find a Browns' fan on here who doesn't agree with you about this stuff (from an objective point of view, that is). You're point is made, and we, as fans, are not arguing it, even though you keep defending it. The backlash is coming from Browns' fans when people post about how they hate brown and orange, about how those colors are dull, about how they have the stupidest primary logo of all time. You can't expect a fan just leave it be when his or her team needs defending from some Opinionater on a rampage. Everything that's been said in this thread could have been said in such a way that it didn't offend the fans of the team(s) in question. Unfortunately, it hasn't.

In the post you quoted? No he wasn't tactful or constructive. He would (rightfully) be flamed if he made a similar comment regarding a concept here. The thing is, though, that through this thread he's echoed some of the same points I've made. He's done so in less then constructive fashion, but his key points are there, that the Browns identity is far from perfect. I do in fact concede that he could have gone to greater lengths to convey that opinion in a more civil manner, and really your reaction has actually been appropriate. What I don't care for is vmd taking a crudely made, yet accurate, point regarding his favourite team and then turning it into a "yeah well your team sucks moar!" contest. For the sake of argument lets say the Jets did have a mismatch of styles and four logos all floating around. Would that make the "well the Jets are ugly too" comment any more relevant? The Browns are the team we're discussing here. What the other 31 NFL teams wear, as far as this discussion goes, shouldn't matter. Deflecting valid criticism of the Browns' look to the team of choice of the person offering the criticism is a pretty low-rent tactic when it comes to discussing the topic at hand around here.

Now again, Curty's way of offering his opinion was far from perfect, and I'm sure mine was far from perfect as well in different ways. The thing is though, his points, if you take all of his posts in this thread, are valid.

For whatever it's worth, I think the Browns have a chance to pull a NY Jets, and I mean that in a good way. The Jets, in my opinion, took a classic look and tweaked it just enough so that it would seem fresh in today's NFL. The Browns are almost there. The darker colours, the wordmark, the solid socks, those when combined with the overall traditional style of the uniform creates a nice meshing of modern and vintage design elements. Then, however, you have a grey facemask which is straight up vintage, and it clashes with the modern elements introduced at the same time. The Jets new twist on an old look works partly because they used a green facemask that gives a classic helmet a modern feel, which ties in with the rest of the uniform. A white facemask would do the same for the Browns. As it is though, they have a purely vintage helmet going with a modern-vintage jersey/pants/socks combo. And of course a logo would be nice (not on the helmet of course).

That's what's so frustrating about the Browns identity. It's so close. It's one thing to vomit at the Bills' clown suites. That's an easy fix, tear it all down and start again. With the Browns, though, they have most of the right pieces there, they're just missing two crucial ones.

As for what should be the logo, the =B= gets my vote, but I'll take either the elf or bulldog at this point (though the elf would probably need the Cardinals treatment). Just pick something.

Why do the Jets even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

A-greed. Terrible primary logo, boring color scheme, cropped shoulder stripes, cream colored helmets with white colored uniforms. Quite the eyesore.

This coming from two guys trying to defend a team that wears those horrific brown pants. Seriously fellas?

Get with the program boys. Ice Cap has made some great suggestions on how our Browns could "tighten up" their look. Right now it's a mish-mash of poorly executed ideas. Try opening your minds instead of your mouths next time. The Browns are far from perfect right now. No one is suggesting a complete overhaul.

Oh and other than those ridiculous green pants, The Jets have one of the best looks in the league.

Thanks. Really, I don't want to come off as a Browns hater. I'm really not. Hating the New York Elis Giants, New England Patriots, and Oakland Raiders fills my NFL hate-quota.

I just tend to think the Browns can do better. They're one of those teams that will never go crazy with their look (thankfully), so there's a set "template" for all potential Browns uniforms to follow. I would like to see them in the best possible Browns uniform. They've fallen short of that recently, thus the criticism. For what it's worth, the Cowboys are much, much, much, much worse offenders.

[oldschoolvikings]

here's a quick mock up of what I think would work best without a major overhaul:

-only used striped socks that match the jersey

-elf logo as primary

-added stripes to brown pants

-brought back orange pants and modified orange alt

-shoes would be black but I haven't had time to make them for the template yet

First off, nice work! This is so close to what I think would be perfect. The only thing I can't take is being so strident with matching the sox to the jerseys. That leaves us with three combos with the (to me) dreaded same-color-sox-and-pants look. Hate that. I'd go with this exact uni, but with this rule... "The sock color will match the jersey color EXCEPT for any monochrome combinations. In these cases, the orange sock (matches the helmet) will be the default sock." This rule means we can also avoid that horrific all-orange look, since it breaks both rules!

[BBTV]

The orange jersey with brown pants looks interesting. I'd like to see that mocked up a little larger, maybe with numbers other than the solid-brown.

[vmd9]

here's a larger image...

[DustDevil61]

Here's an interesting thought--how about a brown helmet with the brown and orange flipped (i.e., orange stripes on side of white middle stripe)? I think that that could make the white jersey/brown pants and orange/brown combos look better.

[Buster]

Great work. LOVE the striping and orange pants that they should wear full-time...but the all orange doesn't look good to me.

Also, what's that logo in the top right supposed to be?

[DustDevil61]

Yea I'll admit I think this looks great too:

I actually liked this look as well, just as an alt. As for the pants, I'd prefer that they burn their brown pants and go back to just white and orange pants, though brown pants with stripes on the side wouldn't look too bad. I liked the Browns all-white look.

[vmd9]

Great work. LOVE the striping and orange pants that they should wear full-time...but the all orange doesn't look good to me.

Also, what's that logo in the top right supposed to be?

It's just my initials V.M.D...a VD with M in the negative space in the middle

and I wasn't sure about the all orange either but I just put it on there to show all possible combinations, I'm not suggesting they ever do that

[ESTONES6]

I had the same general idea for a Browns concept, but i have yet to get around to it. My idea is a little different regaurding the stripes on the pants, sleeves, and socks. other than that, my thoughts nearly exactly.

[infrared41]

here's a quick mock up of what I think would work best without a major overhaul:

-only used striped socks that match the jersey

-elf logo as primary

-added stripes to brown pants

-brought back orange pants and modified orange alt

-shoes would be black but I haven't had time to make them for the template yet

Add a white face mask, lose the brown pants and the all orange monochrome and you nailed it chief. Nice work.

[andrewharrington]

Why do the Jets even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

A-greed. Terrible primary logo, boring color scheme, cropped shoulder stripes, cream colored helmets with white colored uniforms. Quite the eyesore.

This coming from two guys trying to defend a team that wears those horrific brown pants. Seriously fellas?

Get with the program boys. Ice Cap has made some great suggestions on how our Browns could "tighten up" their look. Right now it's a mish-mash of poorly executed ideas. Try opening your minds instead of your mouths next time. The Browns are far from perfect right now. No one is suggesting a complete overhaul.

Oh and other than those ridiculous green pants, The Jets have one of the best looks in the league.

Eh, it's been covered. 'Twas a retaliation jab, nothing more. The Browns and Jets both have great looks that could be slightly improved upon.

[dndevelyn]

spam

[02Rover]

And, no one seems to mention this one, but this is the "Vintage" mark...there are eight (count 'em eight) versions of this one:

Nothing screams "Vintage" like Bank Gothic.

I think Bank Gothic was first created back in the 1930's so I mean technically it works for a vintage logo...

Whether or not when Bank Gothic was first created, the angles and sharp edges of the font convey a more futuristic than vintage feel.

This is one of the trashiest 'retro' logos I think I have ever seen. We all know they didnt use Bank Gothic back in 1946, and that they just slapped this together when they piled on the throwback bandwagon a few years ago.

Really, why do the Browns even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

Browns fans dont care what YOU think.

[02Rover]

I've resigned myself to the fact that the Brown pants are going to stay for a little while so I'll take the little mini victory in that they're not wearing the solid brown socks with them (like they did in that one preseason game). I'd prefer them to go white pants, white socks on the road, but this look isn't so horrible with the striped socks.

I dont love the brown pants, but I could live with them in the form we saw in 2009. Fortunately, they havent been seens since, as it appears they were a Mangini experiment that even he saw wasnt a good one.

Ps. I also love the grey face masks and think they really mesh well with the classic autumn colors of orange and brown. Grey face masks dont always work, but with the Browns they do.

[UnclearInitial]

I always thought that the Browns should rip off the Bengals and put a "Browns" or " Cleveland" on the helmet logo and put numbers on the actual helmet.

[darkhaha]

My problem with the Browns is that they promote the history of their team, but since they've come back into the league they've fiddled with their uniforms more than anybody else. And don't even get me started on the AL on their sleeves.

Timeline

-1999 they wore the uniform as I feel it's supposed to be worn. Meaning, the stripes on the brown jersey were seperated, they had white facemasks and matching stripes on the socks. The pants at the time were orange-brown-orange. On the road they wore all white with matching white striped socks.

- around 2002 they started to screw around with the identity. They had the orange pants experiment and orange alternate, started wearing solid colored socks. At one point they were wearing two different sets of white pants. One went brown-orange-brown, the other worn mostly at home went brown-white-orange-white-brown.

- 2006ish, 2007 we entered into the worst period since the Browns' return. They have no idea what they want to do. I think the striping change on the brown jerseys is good because now it matches the road jersey striping and I'm okay with the return to the orange-brown-orange striping, but other than that I think their current identity is a mixed mess. They switched to gray facemasks to look throwback, but continue to wear stripeless socks. They switch to gray facemasks to look throwback, but then begin to wear stripeless brown pants (a very modern element). At least they've started to wear the white striped socks with the Brown pants. Then there's the throwback, which is basically the home jersey minus sleeve numbers (a jersey that a lot of dumb people have been buying by accident), skinnier pants stripes (which I prefer to their usual pants stripe width) and they use a helmet that nobody remembers.

I'm a fan of a Browns' rival, but I don't hate their uniforms, actually quite the opposite, but I hate to see any good identity messed with. You know for a city that fought so hard to keep their football team's identity they sure have :censored:ed with it a lot since returning to the league. IMO, if you want to go back to gray facemasks and the stripes that Jim Brown wore then go all the way, wear the striped socks, skinny pants stripes, and gray facemasks, and never deviate from that.

I heartily agree with everything in this post.

[Cujo]

And, no one seems to mention this one, but this is the "Vintage" mark...there are eight (count 'em eight) versions of this one:

Nothing screams "Vintage" like Bank Gothic.

I think Bank Gothic was first created back in the 1930's so I mean technically it works for a vintage logo...

Whether or not when Bank Gothic was first created, the angles and sharp edges of the font convey a more futuristic than vintage feel.

This is one of the trashiest 'retro' logos I think I have ever seen. We all know they didnt use Bank Gothic back in 1946, and that they just slapped this together when they piled on the throwback bandwagon a few years ago.

Really, why do the Browns even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

Browns fans dont care what YOU think.

Yet, this Browns fan "who doesn't care", took the time to dig up a year old post and reply to it.....

[yh]

And, no one seems to mention this one, but this is the "Vintage" mark...there are eight (count 'em eight) versions of this one:

Nothing screams "Vintage" like Bank Gothic.

I think Bank Gothic was first created back in the 1930's so I mean technically it works for a vintage logo...

Whether or not when Bank Gothic was first created, the angles and sharp edges of the font convey a more futuristic than vintage feel.

This is one of the trashiest 'retro' logos I think I have ever seen. We all know they didnt use Bank Gothic back in 1946, and that they just slapped this together when they piled on the throwback bandwagon a few years ago.

Really, why do the Browns even try? Every-single-thing about their identity SUCKS.

Browns fans dont care what YOU think.

Yet, this Browns fan "who doesn't care", took the time to dig up a year old post and reply to it.....

To be fair, Curt, the spambot dug it up, not 02Rover.

[ARTnSocal]

I know I'm probably in the minority but I still think this guy is the perfect Browns logo...

I actually like it ..... one thing needs to be tweaked, make the belt buckle look like a 'C' rather than what it looks like in that.

Also, to keep the BROWNS purists satisfied, be like the STEELERS and put that or another logo only on the players right side of helmet, then you can still retain the old boring look.

The brown pants wouldn't have been so bad if it has striping down the sides, but they were solid. Striping is need on both the RAVENS and SAINTS (when they wear their alternate black pants)

But then again, that's only my opinion.