Native Americans In Sports

[rams80]

Can some all indian team name there team the crackers, so we can get over this.

Please tell me your berserk button so I may start pushing it with alacrity.

[Lights Out]

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and he is considered too liberal for the conservative media. It makes me sick to hear Sarah Palin say that she wants to go back to the time of the founding fathers when life expectancy and GDP per capita are below the levels of modern-day Afghanistan.

To Glen Beck and all the white men who have bought everything...

Translation: Republicans and white people are evil, minority liberals are good.

Reads just like the front page of the Huffington Post, actually.

To say you, a rich white man, are not responsible for the atrocities that previous rich white men have committed is ignorant because of these reasons. You can't deny all of the bad things you inherited and accept all of the good things.

How exactly have we "inherited" anything? I can't speak for all white people, but I and all of the other white people I know have avoided the topic of race for years and years, because we're too afraid to say anything for fear of being a "racist." Fear is what we've inherited, not racism. I'm just tired of being told I'm racist simply because I'm white, and white people hundreds of years ago owned and abused black slaves. Wake up - we have a black president, and plenty of white people voted for him. It's a new world.

[Still MIGHTY]

Haha wowwww haha

Ironically enough for the thread, this ad was at the top of the page:

Haha

[max]

Racism was started by politicians - politicians who were 100% white. Nobody will ever find a black or American Indian politician in history. Those same white elites created the Cleveland Indians without the support of any group of American Indians because they didn't need the support of the local Indian college or tribe. Their grandfathers killed them all so they wouldn't be a nuisance and their fathers banished them to the worst regions of the country.

This is beyond conservative vs. liberal.

How exactly have we "inherited" anything? I can't speak for all white people, but I and all of the other white people I know have avoided the topic of race for years and years, because we're too afraid to say anything for fear of being a "racist." Fear is what we've inherited, not racism. I'm just tired of being told I'm racist simply because I'm white, and white people hundreds of years ago owned and abused black slaves. Wake up - we have a black president, and plenty of white people voted for him. It's a new world.

This is purely ignorant of history. "How exactly have we 'inherited' anything?" Tell me about the shoes you are wearing, LIGHTS OUT. Has the fearful practice of "avoiding the topic of race" helped the societies that are so obviously ignored by the government. Now, I am afraid because I am white and Mexican-Americans have been stirred up by the terrible laws of a few rich white men. I am saying that their reaction to you and I as "rich white men" is not favorable to begin with. I don't know what you think about that issue, but it is obviously bad legislation to stir up a violent frenzy from its opponents! I am not saying you are a racist because you are white...I'll tell you a story:

I visited the Cheyenne River Lakota Reservation in Bridger, South Dakota twice in consecutive years. It is the poorest county in America. I participated in a genuine sweat lodge ceremony performed by a town elder (not the country-club bath house sweat ceremony performed by an uncredited quack that killed a couple people in ARIZONA) and witnessed a Sun Dance ceremony in Cherry Creek, South Dakota. I went with a Baptist church group on both trips, but I was not a member of the church and argued incessantly with the pastor on the drive to and from South Dakota. Near the end of the Sun Dance ceremony, the chief gathered the church group and myself together. He berated us for the trouble that white people, church groups, and other unwanted visitors had caused he and his ancestors since the beginning of the foundation of America. He told us to leave the ceremony so we left in shock. We had been standing there in the hot sun for nearly three hours and felt totally different than we had during the celebratory dance. Members of the church group could not control their anger when they got back into the van to drive back Bridger. The youth minister was upset because he knew he was not a racist, but he wanted to say something back at the chief to make him know that he and his church group were not malicious in their intent, but the pastor of the group said something that I wholly agreed with and something that has changed my worldview. He said, "Imagine for how many years that one old man has been waiting to say those few sentences to an ignorant bunch of vacationers who want to catch a glimpse of pure tribalism. The best thing we could have done was to listen to what he had to say and move on." The chief had no idea who we were, but the cost of witnessing the Sun Dance was to listen to the concerns of the chief. That is being cultured means. You can take in everything, the good and the bad.

For some people it is a new world, but for others they are stuck living the same life their parents lived. They will never have a chance to have what you and I have. Affirmative Action.

Read "In the Spirit of Crazy Horse" by Peter Mathiessen

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Crazy-Horse-Peter-Matthiessen/dp/0140144560

[The_Admiral]

I'll bet you my entire prediction mandala below that Billups will not play more than 30 mpg in the next series.

I'll respond with a mandala:

Lakers Celtics Cavaliers

Magic

Rockets

Nuggets

Heat

*Mavericks

Hawks

**Blazers

**Sixers

**Bulls

And I'll let you enjoy these few facts on the NHLs upcoming conference semifinal series:

Boston leads Carolina by 8 points in previous games this season, Boston 4:0 Carolina.

Washington leads Pittsburgh by 5 points in previous games, Washington 4:3 Pittsburgh.

Detroit leads Anaheim by 5 points in previous games also, Detroit 4:3 Anaheim.

Vancouver is tied with Chicago in points, but have scored 4 more goals than Chicago.

WSH 4 DET 4

BOS 2 CHI 3

WSH 4

DET 2

IIHF Predictions:

Quarterfinals

CANADA beats SWITZERLAND

CZECH REP beats SWEDEN

RUSSIA beats SLOVAKIA

USA beats FINLAND

Semifinals

CANADA beats CZECH REPUBLIC

RUSSIA beats USA

Finals

RUSSIA beats CANADA

This whole situation gives emergence to KHL's non-playoff format for determining next year's KHL Champion. Victoria Cup becomes obsolete because neither the NHL nor Europe send their best (The Zurich Lions were swept in the first round of the playoffs this past season).

Basketball: I forgot.

Well, this is the best basketball league in the world. See mandala for interests other than teams ranked lower than the Orlando Magic (the Magic are last team on the list most identifiable to the vast majority of Australians). The NCAA Tournament gets worse as the playoffs continue, am I right? Hopefully, we won't have to sit through a meaningless game 6 or 7 in the conference semifinals before we see the Lakers play the Cavs, Magic, or Celtics.

NBA Teams Ranked by the sum of products of GP on and since December 9, 1987 in each season on December 9 per NBA season and the winning percentage of GP on December 9 of each season since December 9, 1987:

---=still alive in playoffs

1. Phoenix Suns (the best team in the NBA, NHL, and NFL on December Ninths since 12/9/87)

2. Seattle Sonics*

3. Charlotte Hornets*

4. Indiana Pacers

---5. Chicago Bulls

---6. Boston Celtics

---7. Los Angeles Lakers

---8. Cleveland Cavaliers

---t9. Miami Heat

t9. Detroit Pistons

---11. Dallas Mavericks

12. Washington Wizards

13. Toronto Raptors

14. San Antonio Spurs

15. New York Knicks

---t16. Orlando Magic

---t16. Houston Rockets

---t18. Philadelphia 76ers

---t18. Portland TrailBlazers

---20. Denver Nuggets

21. Utah Jazz

22. Los Angeles Clippers

---23. Atlanta Hawks

24. Golden State Warriors

25. Milwaukee Bucks

26. Sacramento Kings

27. New Jersey Nets

28. New Orleans Hornets

29. Charlotte Bobcats

30. Minnesota Timberwolves

31. Vancouver Grizzlies*

32. Memphis Grizzlies

33. Oklahoma City Thunder

Go Bulls

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I don't think the Indians logo (to say nothing of the team name) could possibly be introduced as a new logo for a team today. If the logo isn't "okay" enough to be introduced now, why is it okay to maintain it?

[The_Admiral]

You could say the same for a lot of logos on a strictly aesthetic basis. The Packers using a big letter G is grandfathered in the same way Chief Wahoo is grandfathered in, except a big letter G never upset anyone.

[IceCap]

Racism was started by politicians - politicians who were 100% white. Nobody will ever find a black or American Indian politician in history. Those same white elites created the Cleveland Indians without the support of any group of American Indians because they didn't need the support of the local Indian college or tribe. Their grandfathers killed them all so they wouldn't be a nuisance and their fathers banished them to the worst regions of the country.

This is beyond conservative vs. liberal.

How exactly have we "inherited" anything? I can't speak for all white people, but I and all of the other white people I know have avoided the topic of race for years and years, because we're too afraid to say anything for fear of being a "racist." Fear is what we've inherited, not racism. I'm just tired of being told I'm racist simply because I'm white, and white people hundreds of years ago owned and abused black slaves. Wake up - we have a black president, and plenty of white people voted for him. It's a new world.

This is purely ignorant of history. "How exactly have we 'inherited' anything?" Tell me about the shoes you are wearing, LIGHTS OUT. Has the fearful practice of "avoiding the topic of race" helped the societies that are so obviously ignored by the government. Now, I am afraid because I am white and Mexican-Americans have been stirred up by the terrible laws of a few rich white men. I am saying that their reaction to you and I as "rich white men" is not favorable to begin with. I don't know what you think about that issue, but it is obviously bad legislation to stir up a violent frenzy from its opponents! I am not saying you are a racist because you are white...I'll tell you a story:

I visited the Cheyenne River Lakota Reservation in Bridger, South Dakota twice in consecutive years. It is the poorest county in America. I participated in a genuine sweat lodge ceremony performed by a town elder (not the country-club bath house sweat ceremony performed by an uncredited quack that killed a couple people in ARIZONA) and witnessed a Sun Dance ceremony in Cherry Creek, South Dakota. I went with a Baptist church group on both trips, but I was not a member of the church and argued incessantly with the pastor on the drive to and from South Dakota. Near the end of the Sun Dance ceremony, the chief gathered the church group and myself together. He berated us for the trouble that white people, church groups, and other unwanted visitors had caused he and his ancestors since the beginning of the foundation of America. He told us to leave the ceremony so we left in shock. We had been standing there in the hot sun for nearly three hours and felt totally different than we had during the celebratory dance. Members of the church group could not control their anger when they got back into the van to drive back Bridger. The youth minister was upset because he knew he was not a racist, but he wanted to say something back at the chief to make him know that he and his church group were not malicious in their intent, but the pastor of the group said something that I wholly agreed with and something that has changed my worldview. He said, "Imagine for how many years that one old man has been waiting to say those few sentences to an ignorant bunch of vacationers who want to catch a glimpse of pure tribalism. The best thing we could have done was to listen to what he had to say and move on." The chief had no idea who we were, but the cost of witnessing the Sun Dance was to listen to the concerns of the chief. That is being cultured means. You can take in everything, the good and the bad.

For some people it is a new world, but for others they are stuck living the same life their parents lived. They will never have a chance to have what you and I have. Affirmative Action.

Read "In the Spirit of Crazy Horse" by Peter Mathiessen

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Crazy-Horse-Peter-Matthiessen/dp/0140144560

As a student of history, I can say you're out of your mind. Politicians didn't create racism. The fact that you claimed they did, in your opening paragraph, invalidates everything you've said.

[charger77]

What about his 2nd sentence?

Nobody will ever find a black or American Indian politician in history.

The President of the United States would beg to differ. So would Michael Steele, Barbara Lee, all of the members of the Congressional Black Caucus, Eric Houlder, Scott BigHorse, Tom Cole, Larry EchoHawk etc...

[Lee.]

I'll bet you my entire prediction mandala below that Billups will not play more than 30 mpg in the next series.

I'll respond with a mandala:

Lakers Celtics Cavaliers

Magic

Rockets

Nuggets

Heat

*Mavericks

Hawks

**Blazers

**Sixers

**Bulls

And I'll let you enjoy these few facts on the NHLs upcoming conference semifinal series:

Boston leads Carolina by 8 points in previous games this season, Boston 4:0 Carolina.

Washington leads Pittsburgh by 5 points in previous games, Washington 4:3 Pittsburgh.

Detroit leads Anaheim by 5 points in previous games also, Detroit 4:3 Anaheim.

Vancouver is tied with Chicago in points, but have scored 4 more goals than Chicago.

WSH 4 DET 4

BOS 2 CHI 3

WSH 4

DET 2

IIHF Predictions:

Quarterfinals

CANADA beats SWITZERLAND

CZECH REP beats SWEDEN

RUSSIA beats SLOVAKIA

USA beats FINLAND

Semifinals

CANADA beats CZECH REPUBLIC

RUSSIA beats USA

Finals

RUSSIA beats CANADA

This whole situation gives emergence to KHL's non-playoff format for determining next year's KHL Champion. Victoria Cup becomes obsolete because neither the NHL nor Europe send their best (The Zurich Lions were swept in the first round of the playoffs this past season).

Basketball: I forgot.

Well, this is the best basketball league in the world. See mandala for interests other than teams ranked lower than the Orlando Magic (the Magic are last team on the list most identifiable to the vast majority of Australians). The NCAA Tournament gets worse as the playoffs continue, am I right? Hopefully, we won't have to sit through a meaningless game 6 or 7 in the conference semifinals before we see the Lakers play the Cavs, Magic, or Celtics.

NBA Teams Ranked by the sum of products of GP on and since December 9, 1987 in each season on December 9 per NBA season and the winning percentage of GP on December 9 of each season since December 9, 1987:

---=still alive in playoffs

1. Phoenix Suns (the best team in the NBA, NHL, and NFL on December Ninths since 12/9/87)

2. Seattle Sonics*

3. Charlotte Hornets*

4. Indiana Pacers

---5. Chicago Bulls

---6. Boston Celtics

---7. Los Angeles Lakers

---8. Cleveland Cavaliers

---t9. Miami Heat

t9. Detroit Pistons

---11. Dallas Mavericks

12. Washington Wizards

13. Toronto Raptors

14. San Antonio Spurs

15. New York Knicks

---t16. Orlando Magic

---t16. Houston Rockets

---t18. Philadelphia 76ers

---t18. Portland TrailBlazers

---20. Denver Nuggets

21. Utah Jazz

22. Los Angeles Clippers

---23. Atlanta Hawks

24. Golden State Warriors

25. Milwaukee Bucks

26. Sacramento Kings

27. New Jersey Nets

28. New Orleans Hornets

29. Charlotte Bobcats

30. Minnesota Timberwolves

31. Vancouver Grizzlies*

32. Memphis Grizzlies

33. Oklahoma City Thunder

Go Bulls

What the are you on about? Are you taking antihistamines again?

[rams80]

What the are you on about? Are you taking antihistamines again?

I believe that was a "'max's' greatest hits" post.

[The_Admiral]

slovak-irish-american living in new mexico here.

"When you stop to examine the way in which words are formed and uttered, our sentences are hard put to it to survive the disaster of their slobbery origins. The mechanical effort of conversation is nastier and more complicated than defecation." L.F. Celine. Journey to the end of the Night.

The American government forced Native Americans to learn English. That is old thinking, that your language creates who you are. Language is a large part of your personality, but the jealousy that comes with badmouthing one group of people goes beyond language barriers. It implies inferiority. And that was the same thinking that the Europeans used to justify the treatment of the Native Americans.

[CS85]

this thread has graveyard written all over it.

[Gary]

What the are you on about? Are you taking antihistamines again?

This pretty much sums up the thread in a nutshell

[infrared41]

this thread has graveyard written all over it.

It's sure headed that way. I think we should start a pool on who or what finally takes this thing over the edge. My money is on a Max vs. Lights Out showdown. This should get good.

[max]

"LIGHTS OUT" is the greatest curator of American art history. I will be giving a poetry reading this Saturday in Liberty, Missouri at the new festival "Liberty Arts Squared." Attend if you live in the KCMO Northland. See you all there, lots of alcohol, old :censored:ty poets and me, a fresh new student of poetry returning home. I'll be reading my non-semiotic translation of the Thai Romanization of "Voluntarism" as well as the appropriated text, "Yesterday a Youth," a poem I read at the Manifest Festival on Michigan Avenue in Chicago two weeks ago.

There you go, I'm telling you where I'll be and when. Come out and see if you can get a word in...

[Canadian_Idiot]

"LIGHTS OUT" is the greatest curator of American art history. I will be giving a poetry reading this Saturday in Liberty, Missouri at the new festival "Liberty Arts Squared." Attend if you live in the KCMO Northland. See you all there, lots of alcohol, old :censored:ty poets and me, a fresh new student of poetry returning home. I'll be reading my non-semiotic translation of the Thai Romanization of "Voluntarism" as well as the appropriated text, "Yesterday a Youth," a poem I read at the Manifest Festival on Michigan Avenue in Chicago two weeks ago.

There you go, I'm telling you where I'll be and when. Come out and see if you can get a word in...

Now i'm sure you're crazy.

[IceCap]

"LIGHTS OUT" is the greatest curator of American art history. I will be giving a poetry reading this Saturday in Liberty, Missouri at the new festival "Liberty Arts Squared." Attend if you live in the KCMO Northland. See you all there, lots of alcohol, old :censored:ty poets and me, a fresh new student of poetry returning home. I'll be reading my non-semiotic translation of the Thai Romanization of "Voluntarism" as well as the appropriated text, "Yesterday a Youth," a poem I read at the Manifest Festival on Michigan Avenue in Chicago two weeks ago.

There you go, I'm telling you where I'll be and when. Come out and see if you can get a word in...

[The_Admiral]

You know, Journey to the End of the Night is a really good book. Too bad Céline was a terrible person, but at least he didn't do any significant harm as a result, to the best of my knowledge.

[Lights Out]

My money is on a Max vs. Lights Out showdown. This should get good.

Nope, no sense arguing with one of the weirdest trolls I have ever encountered on any forum, anywhere.

"LIGHTS OUT" is the greatest curator of American art history.