2011 NBA Playoffs

[Kevin W.]

It was an extremely pedestrian triple-double. It's not like he had wiggle room. He just barely got the triple-double.

[Cujo]

If LeBron were a role player, 17-10-10 would be a great night! However, he's not. This is LeBron James. "Mr. Decision". He is has set the bar incredibly high for himself and is now expected to lead and win championships -- NOT vanish during the 4th quarter of each NBA Finals game. THAT'S why the world is calling him out tonight.

[Dan Gilbert]

Dirk, your courage is second only to your loyalty.

As for you, Lebron. May you understand the pain and anguish you've cased us all.

[JoseJames]

I absolutely cannot believe I'm about to do this (considering Heat schadenfreude is probably the most delicious schadenfreude of them all)...but LeBron is gonna get TOO much criticism, IMO, for a 17/10/10 game in the Finals. I can understand the crap he caught for his Game 4 performance where he was just terrible & I can definitely understand criticism for his 4th quarter struggles...but if you call 17/10/10 a bum performance, though??? nope.jpg.

I guess what I'm saying is that the criticism surrounding Game 4 was well warranted. The criticism he's getting for Game 5 (unless you're strictly talking about the 4th)? Not so much.

Do your worst, fellow basketball fans.

Is not only 4th quater fading... is an overall actitud (more than his numbers), with Wade (your moral leader in this finals) injured is unforgivable that HE didn't step up.

[rams80]

Tell you what. Jordan would never have let the Bulls collapse in the 4th Quarter as often as the Heat have in this series.

But early Jordan let Paxson take the 4th quarter shots in 91 and 93.

DAL shot lights out tonight (56% from the field), but the game changed when it was 102-10 and LeBron was called for the charge on Chandler. He made the shot, but instead of a three point opportunity, it went the other way. next possession he missed an ill-advised 3.

And if Paxson misses them Jordan breaks his neck in the locker room. And stops letting him take said shots. You don't have to do everything yourself to keep the team from collapsing.

[JQK]

I guess what I'm saying is that the criticism surrounding Game 4 was well warranted. The criticism he's getting for Game 5 (unless you're strictly talking about the 4th)? Not so much.

I think the criticism is stricly for his ability (or lack thereof) to close a game. Yea, his statline is purty, but where is he when the Heat need to shut the game down?

[dfwabel]

I absolutely cannot believe I'm about to do this (considering Heat schadenfreude is probably the most delicious schadenfreude of them all)...but LeBron is gonna get TOO much criticism, IMO, for a 17/10/10 game in the Finals. I can understand the crap he caught for his Game 4 performance where he was just terrible & I can definitely understand criticism for his 4th quarter struggles...but if you call 17/10/10 a bum performance, though??? nope.jpg.

I guess what I'm saying is that the criticism surrounding Game 4 was well warranted. The criticism he's getting for Game 5 (unless you're strictly talking about the 4th)? Not so much.

Do your worst, fellow basketball fans.

I agree, regardless of the result, he was in a personal "no-win" situation.

If they lost with his stats, then he did not do enough or the collapse which we have heard for the last 12 hours.

If they lost with him having better scoring stats, then he would be seen as selfish.

If they won with his stats, Wade would have been talked about for his toughness.

If the won with him having better scoring stats, then he would be seen as selfish.

[loogodude90]

I absolutely cannot believe I'm about to do this (considering Heat schadenfreude is probably the most delicious schadenfreude of them all)...but LeBron is gonna get TOO much criticism, IMO, for a 17/10/10 game in the Finals. I can understand the crap he caught for his Game 4 performance where he was just terrible & I can definitely understand criticism for his 4th quarter struggles...but if you call 17/10/10 a bum performance, though??? nope.jpg.

I guess what I'm saying is that the criticism surrounding Game 4 was well warranted. The criticism he's getting for Game 5 (unless you're strictly talking about the 4th)? Not so much.

Do your worst, fellow basketball fans.

I agree, regardless of the result, he was in a personal "no-win" situation.

If they lost with his stats, then he did not do enough or the collapse which we have heard for the last 12 hours.

If they lost with him having better scoring stats, then he would be seen as selfish.

If they won with his stats, Wade would have been talked about for his toughness.

If the won with him having better scoring stats, then he would be seen as selfish.

I disagree. If they won with him having better scoring stats, he would have received much praise, and the MJ comparison-talk would have started up again.

I think most of the criticism he is getting is based on the fact that this is the :censored:ing NBA Finals. With all the hype surrounding the Heat all season long, it's fair game to hold them to a high standard. Yes, a 17-10-10 game is a great performance - but not up to par with what Lebron had been expected to do overall in the Finals. But I also think any criticism he is receiving is still a carry-over from Game 4.

[sparkychewbarky]

This whole '3 amigo' debacle was player collusion; plain and simple.

If these guys were owners, they'd be fined and their transactions nullified.

God, I hope Dirk throws a big German wrench into the works.

Tired of watching the 3 dorks masturbate on the court.

Hey, it's all been about their self-gratification above all else hasn't it?

[Cujo]

Tired of watching the 3 dorks masturbate on the court.

Sure you've been watching the same thing as us?

[dfwabel]

I absolutely cannot believe I'm about to do this (considering Heat schadenfreude is probably the most delicious schadenfreude of them all)...but LeBron is gonna get TOO much criticism, IMO, for a 17/10/10 game in the Finals. I can understand the crap he caught for his Game 4 performance where he was just terrible & I can definitely understand criticism for his 4th quarter struggles...but if you call 17/10/10 a bum performance, though??? nope.jpg.

I guess what I'm saying is that the criticism surrounding Game 4 was well warranted. The criticism he's getting for Game 5 (unless you're strictly talking about the 4th)? Not so much.

Do your worst, fellow basketball fans.

I agree, regardless of the result, he was in a personal "no-win" situation.

If they lost with his stats, then he did not do enough or the collapse which we have heard for the last 12 hours.

If they lost with him having better scoring stats, then he would be seen as selfish.

If they won with his stats, Wade would have been talked about for his toughness.

If the won with him having better scoring stats, then he would be seen as selfish.

I disagree. If they won with him having better scoring stats, he would have received much praise, and the MJ comparison-talk would have started up again.

I think most of the criticism he is getting is based on the fact that this is the :censored:ing NBA Finals. With all the hype surrounding the Heat all season long, it's fair game to hold them to a high standard. Yes, a 17-10-10 game is a great performance - but not up to par with what Lebron had been expected to do overall in the Finals. But I also think any criticism he is receiving is still a carry-over from Game 4.

He was a charging call away from 20-10-10.

He had as many rebounds as anyone on either team: 10.

He had more assists than anyone: 10.

He made more shots than anyone in a Miami uniform: 8<br style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">

LeBron:A-Rod :: Wade:Jeter. No matter what he does, is may never be enough because it took (or may take) the other to win a championship. <br style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">

[TheOldRoman]

This is the consecuence for give life to a semi dead.

Miami couldn't clutch in important moments (if your are seeing that your shoot aren't in so, increase your D) and gave hope and potentiated the feeling of "we can win all" of Dallas.

Hopefully this will give the Heat a little humility for the following season

Let's give a nice warm CCSLC welcome to dfwabel's brother.

I read that post five times just for fun.

[Kevin W.]

Question for the masses: if the Mavs win game 6, which city has the biggest riot: Cleveland, Dallas or Miami?

[TheOldRoman]

Question for the masses: if the Mavs win game 6, which city has the biggest riot: Cleveland, Dallas or Miami?

The people in Miami who jumped on the bandwagon a year ago wouldn't care, they would go down to South Beach to party the night away.

The people in Dallas would celebrate calmly while cursing because they haven't seen a Cowboys' championship in 15 years.

The people in Cleveland will celebrate for one night before waking up to the cold reality of being a Cleveland sports fan.

[infrared41]

Question for the masses: if the Mavs win game 6, which city has the biggest riot: Cleveland, Dallas or Miami?

I think you overestimate LeBron's importance around here. People are over it. That said, my money's on Cleveland.

[infrared41]

I absolutely cannot believe I'm about to do this (considering Heat schadenfreude is probably the most delicious schadenfreude of them all)...but LeBron is gonna get TOO much criticism, IMO, for a 17/10/10 game in the Finals. I can understand the crap he caught for his Game 4 performance where he was just terrible & I can definitely understand criticism for his 4th quarter struggles...but if you call 17/10/10 a bum performance, though??? nope.jpg.

I guess what I'm saying is that the criticism surrounding Game 4 was well warranted. The criticism he's getting for Game 5 (unless you're strictly talking about the 4th)? Not so much.

Do your worst, fellow basketball fans.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm actually pulling for Lebron to do well. I'm not among the "anti-Heat" crowd. I have no problem with how the Heat were put together. In fact, I really enjoy watching them play together. I don't "hate" Lebron or anything. He's still one of my favorite players.

My point wasn't that James didn't have good stats or didn't play a decent game. What I was talking about was watching him stand around in the third while Wade was out of the game. The guy would drop a pass to someone and then he'd just stand there. That's fine if you're going to Wade or Bosh. It's a different story when you're dumping it down low to Anthony or Chalmers and waiting for them to so something. It just seems to me that when you're clearly the best player on the court, you shouldn't be playing the Mike Bibby role. If Bibby is passing off to Wade, Bosh, or James and then standing around, well that's probably what he should do. At no point should Lebron James ever defer to Mike Bibby, Mario Chalmers or Joel Anthony, and that's exactly what he was doing. Maybe it's just me, but that stretch in the third spoke volumes about Lebron. And worse, it sent a real message not only to Dallas, but to his teammates as well.

Trust me Flame, this isn't schadenfreude for me, it's disappointment.

[Drakonius26]

Question for the masses: if the Mavs win game 6, which city has the biggest riot: Cleveland, Dallas or Miami?

I think you overestimate LeBron's importance around here. People are over it. That said, my money's on Cleveland.

Well, when you haven't won anything since 1964, I would imagine you'll take any victory you can get.

However, why be disappointed, Red? I mean, LeBron James while a good player is more a victim of his own propaganda and initial success in entering the NBA. The Cleveland Cavaliers overachieved in 2007 and got smoked in the Finals, and these Heat have done the same thing this year. Yes, in terms of talent, it's without a doubt this roster is better than the team he took to the Finals back in 2007, but maybe, just maybe, the NBA and it's fans should realize he's just not that good to begin with.

What will be his excuse this time? Not enough time to build chemistry with the other great players he decided to combine his talents with, down in South Beach? The fact is, he's not a closer, he's not a true leader, and if the Heat meekly exit in Game 6 or Game 7, he's not a winner either. Perhaps he will win a title one day, but I think it's becoming painfully obvious that LeBron is certainly not the "Chosen One" or even the "Next One", just a talented basketball player.

Cleveland might still be a little bitter, but the fact is, what have they really missed out on? A player who erodes at the slightest possibility of adversity? Is that who you thought could give you guys a championship? Nah, he's no different than he was vs. San Antonio in 2007, vs. Boston in 2008, vs. Orlando in 2009, vs. Boston in 2010. He's a Peyton Manning in sneakers, a phenomenal talent who can't win or lead when it counts... oh wait, Peyton's actually won something, so he's not even that.

It seems like a real leader and closer of the Heat has an injured hip right now.

[infrared41]

Well, when you haven't won anything since 1964, I would imagine you'll take any victory you can get.

However, why be disappointed, Red? I mean, LeBron James while a good player is more a victim of his own propaganda and initial success in entering the NBA. The Cleveland Cavaliers overachieved in 2007 and got smoked in the Finals, and these Heat have done the same thing this year. Yes, in terms of talent, it's without a doubt this roster is better than the team he took to the Finals back in 2007, but maybe, just maybe, the NBA and it's fans should realize he's just not that good to begin with.

What will be his excuse this time? Not enough time to build chemistry with the other great players he decided to combine his talents with, down in South Beach? The fact is, he's not a closer, he's not a true leader, and if the Heat meekly exit in Game 6 or Game 7, he's not a winner either. Perhaps he will win a title one day, but I think it's becoming painfully obvious that LeBron is certainly not the "Chosen One" or even the "Next One", just a talented basketball player.

Cleveland might still be a little bitter, but the fact is, what have they really missed out on? A player who erodes at the slightest possibility of adversity? Is that who you thought could give you guys a championship? Nah, he's no different than he was vs. San Antonio in 2007, vs. Boston in 2008, vs. Orlando in 2009, vs. Boston in 2010. He's a Peyton Manning in sneakers, a phenomenal talent who can't win or lead when it counts... oh wait, Peyton's actually won something, so he's not even that.

It seems like a real leader and closer of the Heat has an injured hip right now.

You pretty much answered your own question. I was hoping he'd put all that stuff behind him in this series.

I guess it's hard for me to separate what we all now know as "Lebron James" from the goofy 17 year old kid who almost tripped over me on press row at Savage Hall in Toledo back when I was covering the Ohio High School basketball tournament. I was sitting on the floor shooting footage for the game prior to SVSM's when this guy stumbles over me trying to get to where his coach was watching the game. I look up and there's Lebron James looking apologetic with this big "oops, sorry about that" grin on his face. He'd come over to ask the coach if he and his teammates could stay out and watch the first half of the game I was covering. The coach said yes so the team assembled under the basket on my end of the court.

To make a long story short, Lebron ended up in the highlight tape I was shooting. One of the kids on the team I was covering made a monster dunk. I look over and there's LBJ going nuts and cheering for the other kid. I ended up using the Lebron footage as a cut-away. I figure the other kid would have something he could show his grandchildren some day. Anyway... At that point, I thought "in three months he is going to be a multimillionaire and he's just some big goofy kid." So based on that, it's always been a little hard for me to root against the guy. Sounds silly I know, but I always see the kid.

I should dig up that video and post it here.

[TFoA]

Mama, there goes that man...in Oakland.

Time to put the kids away & start making grown man moves with the Warriors. Time to clear the airspace between Golden State & the playoffs. Warriors missing the playoffs? NOT ON MY WATCH. He will teach these men in blue & gold the most crucial basketball knowledge one would ever learn: HAND DOWN; MAN DOWN.

Seriously though, Mark Jackson w/ the Warriors probably won't be all that bad.

[Drakonius26]

Well, when you haven't won anything since 1964, I would imagine you'll take any victory you can get.

However, why be disappointed, Red? I mean, LeBron James while a good player is more a victim of his own propaganda and initial success in entering the NBA. The Cleveland Cavaliers overachieved in 2007 and got smoked in the Finals, and these Heat have done the same thing this year. Yes, in terms of talent, it's without a doubt this roster is better than the team he took to the Finals back in 2007, but maybe, just maybe, the NBA and it's fans should realize he's just not that good to begin with.

What will be his excuse this time? Not enough time to build chemistry with the other great players he decided to combine his talents with, down in South Beach? The fact is, he's not a closer, he's not a true leader, and if the Heat meekly exit in Game 6 or Game 7, he's not a winner either. Perhaps he will win a title one day, but I think it's becoming painfully obvious that LeBron is certainly not the "Chosen One" or even the "Next One", just a talented basketball player.

Cleveland might still be a little bitter, but the fact is, what have they really missed out on? A player who erodes at the slightest possibility of adversity? Is that who you thought could give you guys a championship? Nah, he's no different than he was vs. San Antonio in 2007, vs. Boston in 2008, vs. Orlando in 2009, vs. Boston in 2010. He's a Peyton Manning in sneakers, a phenomenal talent who can't win or lead when it counts... oh wait, Peyton's actually won something, so he's not even that.

It seems like a real leader and closer of the Heat has an injured hip right now.

You pretty much answered your own question. I was hoping he'd put all that stuff behind him in this series.

I guess it's hard for me to separate what we all now know as "Lebron James" from the goofy 17 year old kid who almost tripped over me on press row at Savage Hall in Toledo back when I was covering the Ohio High School basketball tournament. I was sitting on the floor shooting footage for the game prior to SVSM's when this guy stumbles over me trying to get to where his coach was watching the game. I look up and there's Lebron James looking apologetic with this big "oops, sorry about that" grin on his face. He'd come over to ask the coach if he and his teammates could stay out and watch the first half of the game I was covering. The coach said yes so the team assembled under the basket on my end of the court.

To make a long story short, Lebron ended up in the highlight tape I was shooting. One of the kids on the team I was covering made a monster dunk. I look over and there's LBJ going nuts and cheering for the other kid. I ended up using the Lebron footage as a cut-away. I figure the other kid would have something he could show his grandchildren some day. Anyway... At that point, I thought "in three months he is going to be a multimillionaire and he's just some big goofy kid." So based on that, it's always been a little hard for me to root against the guy. Sounds silly I know, but I always see the kid.

I should dig up that video and post it here.

I don't hate the kid either, and beyond morbid curiosity, a part of me feels sorry for what he will have to hear if the Heat lose the series to Dallas. Even after The Decision, LeBron James doesn't strike me as evil, or even a bad person for wanting to join Miami. I don't agree with how he went about it, but that's really the only thing, and I don't blame him for believing that staying in Cleveland would've doomed him to be his generation's Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, etc.

Your experience with him, doesn't surprise me, as it seems he's probably still a little kid at heart, and I completely believe The Decision was more of his handler's decision, than his. Just look at how his voice skips when they showed him people burning his jersey in Cleveland. Clearly, he still wanted to be loved and have the success he sought with his friends in Miami, and then it shouldn't be a surprise he's flaming out in this fashion, albeit he had decent numbers in Game 5. To me, and you'll know who I'm talking about. He strikes me as more of a Oscar Robertson, than a Michael Jordan or even Magic Johnson.

If there's anything I hate about the current NBA, it's these super-teams and how they'll make an already top-heavy league almost unwatchable and completely predictable. That's not LeBron's fault, it's Danny Ainge's fault.