NHL franchise relocation

[illwauk]

Wow man, didn't mean to send you off the deep end on this one. Hell, I've never even lived in the Phoenix Metro area, my arguement was to your "Phoenix is a money town is complete drivel" line. And yes, quantity does bring in money, the area as a whole brings in money due to the numerous sporting events. Like bosrs1 said, there just may be too many sporting events going on to care about the Yotes.

I totally sympathize with you, you want your team to work out and stay in Glendale, but surely you must see the bigger picture. I think you are looking at the situation through rose tinted glasses, and whenever anyone comments on the state of this poorly run franchise, you jump on the defensive and start pulling out the stat book!

As to my comment above, all I meant was in comparison with similar size metropolitan areas, Phoenix cannot possibly be as much as a money town as San Francisco or Boston.

Of course I want the Yotes to say, I also know that they would be much more appreciated elsewhere, and its a shame.

Maybe the whole reason for them staying there is beacuse of the area brining in so many sporting events, who knows?

Boston hands down your spot on with that one. SF, 20 years ago maybe. Poor Candlestick has run its course and as everyone knows the team is looking to move closer to San Jose then SF. Love AT&T Park though,the best sports venue I've ever been to.

If they sort out the financial situation and get more fans to come, the Phoenix Coyotes could steadily become respectable! The only reason the Coyotes are still in Glendale is because Gary Bettman does not want lose face and say 'hey maybe it's not working'...

The SF Bay Area is probably the biggest money area in the United States, all because of the Silicon Valley alone. San Jose is probably a more suitable home for an NFL team, and their are even discussions about the Oakland Athletics building their new ballpark in San Jose... it's just going to keep growing and it will become an attractive city for any major sports league in the next 20 years or so, we could even be looking at San Jose as a city with all 4 major sports leagues being represented very soon!

The only way San Jose ends up with 4 teams is by poaching currently existing Bay Area teams.

That said... it would make sense for San Jose to have the Warriors and an NFL Stadium that would host the Niners and Raiders. Those plus the Sharks are your four teams (alebit, not representing all four leagues).

[mattwswfc]

The only way San Jose ends up with 4 teams is by poaching currently existing Bay Area teams.

That said... it would make sense for San Jose to have the Warriors and an NFL Stadium that would host the Niners and Raiders. Those plus the Sharks are your four teams (alebit, not representing all four leagues).

Yeah I didn't mean San Jose becoming a candidate for expansion or relocation from another part of the country, but as a more suitable home for a few of the existing Bay Arena teams...

Anyway the way I pictured it would be as you said but keep the Raiders in Oakland, and have the Athletics build a new ballpark in San Jose.

[bosrs1]

Wow man, didn't mean to send you off the deep end on this one. Hell, I've never even lived in the Phoenix Metro area, my arguement was to your "Phoenix is a money town is complete drivel" line. And yes, quantity does bring in money, the area as a whole brings in money due to the numerous sporting events. Like bosrs1 said, there just may be too many sporting events going on to care about the Yotes.

I totally sympathize with you, you want your team to work out and stay in Glendale, but surely you must see the bigger picture. I think you are looking at the situation through rose tinted glasses, and whenever anyone comments on the state of this poorly run franchise, you jump on the defensive and start pulling out the stat book!

As to my comment above, all I meant was in comparison with similar size metropolitan areas, Phoenix cannot possibly be as much as a money town as San Francisco or Boston.

Of course I want the Yotes to say, I also know that they would be much more appreciated elsewhere, and its a shame.

Maybe the whole reason for them staying there is beacuse of the area brining in so many sporting events, who knows?

Boston hands down your spot on with that one. SF, 20 years ago maybe. Poor Candlestick has run its course and as everyone knows the team is looking to move closer to San Jose then SF. Love AT&T Park though,the best sports venue I've ever been to.

If they sort out the financial situation and get more fans to come, the Phoenix Coyotes could steadily become respectable! The only reason the Coyotes are still in Glendale is because Gary Bettman does not want lose face and say 'hey maybe it's not working'...

The SF Bay Area is probably the biggest money area in the United States, all because of the Silicon Valley alone. San Jose is probably a more suitable home for an NFL team, and their are even discussions about the Oakland Athletics building their new ballpark in San Jose... it's just going to keep growing and it will become an attractive city for any major sports league in the next 20 years or so, we could even be looking at San Jose as a city with all 4 major sports leagues being represented very soon!

The only way San Jose ends up with 4 teams is by poaching currently existing Bay Area teams.

That said... it would make sense for San Jose to have the Warriors and an NFL Stadium that would host the Niners and Raiders. Those plus the Sharks are your four teams (alebit, not representing all four leagues).

You forgot the A's who are more than likely moving to San Jose. That on top of the Niners and Raiders moving into neighboring Santa Clara and of course the already existing Sharks and Earthquakes teams. The Warriors won't be moving to San Jose, if anything they'll be moving toe San Francisco in the next ten years. But the wild card is an NBA team possibly moving into the HP Pavilion along with the Sharks. There have been rumblings of such with the Warriors, Kings and Hornets in the past few years. Who knows but it could happen. So it isn't impossible that San Jose could end up having at least 1 team from each big 4 league and MLS.

[IceCap]

Phoenix has to be the next franchise to move, aren't they?

Why? I dont want to hear the whole " Phoenix is not a hockey area, hockey has no place in the desert line that is used time and time again." The fact is, Phoenix is a money town, many "Northerners" have relocated to the great southwest and in turn brought the hockey love with them.

A money town? Yeah a money town that allows one of its big 4 sports franchises to lose nearly $25 million every year.... Phoenix being a money town is complete drivel, you just keep on thinking that your retiree community is where the money is! Winnipeg is nearly 4 times smaller than Phoenix (in terms of metropolitan area) and yet it manages to be making a lot more money than everyone thought, that must make them a money town too? Also Manitoba is still recovering from the recession!

Well lets just look at the sports/ sporting events that the Phoenix metro area brings in;

D-Backs

Suns

Cardinals

Coyotes

MLB Spring Training

Arizona Fall League

2 Super Bowls in 10 years

Wrestlemania

Phoenix Intl Sppedway

NBA All Star Games

MLB All Star Game

BCS National Championship

Wow, seems like money to me wouldn't you agree?

All of this ignores the fact that the Coyotes...

1) lose at least $25 million a season just by virtue of their existence.

2) the league owns them, with no one willing to buy them and keep them in Glendale.

3) no one goes to the games.

"Money town" or not, it's a terrible NHL market. They're only still in town because Gary Bettman refuses to admit defeat on a really terrible idea.

It amazes me that there are still people defending this team's stay in the Phoenix metro area at this point.

[Gothamite]

"Money town" or not, it's a terrible NHL market. They're only still in town because Gary Bettman refuses to admit defeat on a really terrible idea.

It amazes me that there are still people defending this team's stay in the Phoenix metro area at this point.

The only people doing that are either in the Phoenix metro area themselves... or Gary Bettman.

[Hathaway Browne]

I tried to find the "Coyotes situation" thread but it seems to have vanished, so I thought I'd post this here.

http://www.nytimes.c..._r=1&ref=sports

Any decision is likely to be made after the season, when the $25 million in aid from Glendale has been paid. If the Coyotes leave Arizona, Quebec City is their most likely destination. Mayor Régis Labeaume and the provincial government have promised to use public money to help complete a $400 million arena by 2015. Quebecor, a media conglomerate, has pledged to pay $63.5 million for naming rights and $4.5 million in annual rent if the company is able to buy the team.

Nothing new per se, but I guess still noteworthy.

[TBGKon]

I'm lost as to why Portland, OR hasn't been even thought of as a consideration. I understand they need an interested owner, but outside of Vancouver (in which most Americans in the Pacific NW do not follow) the Pacific NW is no man's land.

IMO, Portland would be a better NHL city than Seattle, just from an outside competition standpoint.

[BBTV]

I'm lost as to why Portland, OR hasn't been even thought of as a consideration. I understand they need an interested owner, but outside of Vancouver (in which most Americans in the Pacific NW do not follow) the Pacific NW is no man's land.

IMO, Portland would be a better NHL city than Seattle, just from an outside competition standpoint.

Isn't that, you know, kind of a really big deal?

[Eye]

I'm lost as to why Portland, OR hasn't been even thought of as a consideration. I understand they need an interested owner, but outside of Vancouver (in which most Americans in the Pacific NW do not follow) the Pacific NW is no man's land.

IMO, Portland would be a better NHL city than Seattle, just from an outside competition standpoint.

Isn't that, you know, kind of a really big deal?

Not in the NHL.

[rvrdgsfn]

EDIT: and I just realized Hatawhay already posted this, man I must be tired...

As if we already didn't know....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/sports/hockey/coyotes-nhl-future-in-arizona-is-shaky.html?_r=1

The league, too, is no longer obliged to pay the city of Glendale if the team breaks its lease at Jobing.com Arena, increasing the chance that the team may relocate. Gary Bettman, the N.H.L. commissioner, who has long argued that the team should remain in Arizona, acknowledged as much when he warned that time may be running short to keep the team where it is.

“We’re going to try to avoid a move of the Coyotes,” Bettman said in a radio interview before the All-Star Game last month. “But if we don’t sell the club, I’m not sure that this won’t be the last season here.”

If the Coyotes leave Arizona, Quebec City is their most likely destination. Mayor Régis Labeaume and the provincial government have promised to use public money to help complete a $400 million arena by 2015. Quebecor, a media conglomerate, has pledged to pay $63.5 million for naming rights and $4.5 million in annual rent if the company is able to buy the team.

[zpqmaowl]

Do we need 500 three threads for the same thing?

[dfwabel]

I'm lost as to why Portland, OR hasn't been even thought of as a consideration. I understand they need an interested owner, but outside of Vancouver (in which most Americans in the Pacific NW do not follow) the Pacific NW is no man's land.

IMO, Portland would be a better NHL city than Seattle, just from an outside competition standpoint.

Isn't that, you know, kind of a really big deal?

D@mn right! Bottom line for potential investors/owners is that according to Forbes while team values increase, more NHL teams lose money than make money (according the records the NHL provides)!

Granted, there are two to three teams which make it look worse, like ATL (moved with new ownership), DAL (new ownership), and even WAS before the Leonsis ownership of the Verizon Center was complete, but there are still numerous NHL teams who are the sole tenant and as we are told "do not turn a profit." Teams who may get a new owner and move will still have to recover the debt incurred from buying the team, or recovering the cash outlay and have a favorable arena lease.

Remember Paul Allen owns the Rose Garden through his companies, thus is more like a AEG/Sprint Center deal for another 40 dates.

Plus, Portland is more locked into a mixed-use project over a new team.

[B-Rich]

I'm lost as to why Portland, OR hasn't been even thought of as a consideration. I understand they need an interested owner, but outside of Vancouver (in which most Americans in the Pacific NW do not follow) the Pacific NW is no man's land.

IMO, Portland would be a better NHL city than Seattle, just from an outside competition standpoint.

Isn't that, you know, kind of a really big deal?

D@mn right! Bottom line for potential investors/owners is that according to Forbes while team values increase, more NHL teams lose money than make money (according the records the NHL provides)!

Granted, there are two to three teams which make it look worse, like ATL (moved with new ownership), DAL (new ownership), and even WAS before the Leonsis ownership of the Verizon Center was complete, but there are still numerous NHL teams who are the sole tenant and as we are told "do not turn a profit." Teams who may get a new owner and move will still have to recover the debt incurred from buying the team, or recovering the cash outlay and have a favorable arena lease.

Remember Paul Allen owns the Rose Garden through his companies, thus is more like a AEG/Sprint Center deal for another 40 dates.

Plus, Portland is more locked into a mixed-use project over a new team.

Funny, my friend and I were talking about this Friday night as we watched the Trailblazers play the Hornets. Regardless of ownership, you've got to look at this from a "seasonal" standpoint in conjunction with the metro area's size. And Portland already has the winter season covered with the Trailblazers, a 40 year old civic institution.... The only metro areas that "successfully" support both an NHL and NBA team (usually in the same arena) are in the BIGGEST markets in North America: New York/New Jersey, LA, Philly, Boston, Toronto, Washington, Chicago, Detroit, Dallas, Denver, Miami.. and we see what's happening in Phoenix (which is still a pretty big market). No smaller market has its only two "big four" sports team playing in the same season. Of course the only opportunity for a "same season" in the big four IS winter, but still....

[rvrdgsfn]

Well, if Seattle gets a team, They will have an owner. Chicago Wolves owner Don Levin.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/chicago-wolves-owner-interested-in-seattle-franchise/article2340773/

If financier Chris Hansen succeeds in his plan to build an arena in Seattle and buy and NBA team, he will not have to look far for someone to bring along an NHL team as a second tenant.

Don Levin, who owns the Chicago Wolves of the American Hockey League, said Thursday he told Hansen he would be ?very happy? to get involved as the owner of an NHL team in Seattle.

?If he?s successful, I?d be very happy to be involved,? Levin said. ?I told [Hansen] if he has something put together I would be interested.?