Indians' Identity

[CrazyAnna]

I just don't like the fact that the Indians are the second "Native American" MLB team.

Who's the first?

Braves - 1876

Indians - 1901

[andrewharrington]

Part of it is there's no history there of using mismatched home & road scripts.

I don't agree here.

The Indians' early history (1900-1945) was characterized by a home uniform featuring either a cursive C, a block C or a wishbone C, paired with a road uniform featuring a block CLEVELAND. The decade from 1946-1957, which were really the Indians' true glory years, were characterized by a script INDIANS at home and a block CLEVELAND on the road. They sank into futility from the 1960s to the 1980s, and featured block wordmarks on both jerseys during this time. The script look was revived in the 1990s, coinciding with a good period of baseball, but no titles.

The Indians have spent much of their history wearing vastly different home and road uniforms, and their best decade was spent in a set featuring a script at home and block on the road. Now, the two dark blues, terrible red cap and questionable logo notwithstanding, they are well on their way to developing a solid identity that may or may not feature a script and block lettering. Either way, I think it works with the mismatched lettering, because it represents the best part of Indians' history and the one that people like to remember. Every change they've been making is in the right direction, except for the red cap, but at least they're wearing red sleeves and socks with it this season. They're a few significant changes from perfect, but they're getting there.

[Tomahawk10]

I just don't like the fact that the Indians are the second "Native American" MLB team.

Who's the first?

The Braves.

Win a little more and y'all can be first.

Just playing.

[andrewharrington]

I just don't like the fact that the Indians are the second "Native American" MLB team.

Who's the first?

Braves - 1876

Indians - 1901

They weren't the Braves until 1913, though. That's only two years before the Indians became the Indians, officially. And weren't the Braves founded in 1871 as the Boston red Stockings anyway?

[CrazyAnna]

I just don't like the fact that the Indians are the second "Native American" MLB team.

Who's the first?

Braves - 1876

Indians - 1901

They weren't the Braves until 1913, though. That's only two years before the Indians became the Indians, officially. And weren't the Braves founded in 1871 as the Boston red Stockings anyway?

Interesting. At least the Indians stayed in one city. The Braves are a multiple transplant team.

[andrewharrington]

I just don't like the fact that the Indians are the second "Native American" MLB team.

Who's the first?

Braves - 1876

Indians - 1901

They weren't the Braves until 1913, though. That's only two years before the Indians became the Indians, officially. And weren't the Braves founded in 1871 as the Boston red Stockings anyway?

Interesting. At least the Indians stayed in one city. The Braves are a multiple transplant team.

Ah, yes. There's that, too.

[tBBP]

To get this back on track, since I feel an imminent Clevejack coming (we done already had one Cleveland thread Clevejacked up in here--how I have no idea--and to steer this thread away from being Bravejacked)...I really feel the Jndians can benefit from, if they insist on keeping the script on the home jerseys, by refining it so it's not as thick as it is now. Thinner scripts read much more legibly. And then there's the whole matter of that first letter, the "I" that looks like a "J".

Beyond that...taking into account what uniform-germane discussion has occurred up to this point in this thread, they should figure out once and for all what they want to do with Wahoo, figure out what they want to use as a home/away cap, figure out if they want straight white or cream uniforms as primary home, then design a script for the home set, a block font wordmark for the aways, make it all standardized so their on-field identity doesn't appear so schizophrenic, and then call it a day, season, and decade...and beyond.

[andrewharrington]

To get this back on track, since I feel an imminent Clevejack coming (we done already had one Cleveland thread Clevejacked up in here--how I have no idea--and to steer this thread away from being Bravejacked)...I really feel the Jndians can benefit from, if they insist on keeping the script on the home jerseys, by refining it so it's not as thick as it is now. Thinner scripts read much more legibly. And then there's the whole matter of that first letter, the "I" that looks like a "J".

Beyond that...taking into account what uniform-germane discussion has occurred up to this point in this thread, they should figure out once and for all what they want to do with Wahoo, figure out what they want to use as a home/away cap, figure out if they want straight white or cream uniforms as primary home, then design a script for the home set, a block font wordmark for the aways, make it all standardized so their on-field identity doesn't appear so schizophrenic, and then call it a day, season, and decade...and beyond.

Like I said, they're close. Personally, I like the block look, but I also like the script at home/block on road look, so I'm on board either way. But, They do need to make the script a little thinner and, in my opinion, slightly more organic and not so hard-edged. Very small details on that end.

The I/J issue doesn't bother me. A capital I and capital J are already quite similar in cursive-style writing, and when you add that to the fact that the letter J originated as a swash form of the letter I in much the same way the U evolved from the V (which is why you'll sometimes see in an old school a sign that says AVDITORIVM, for example), I find the similarity to be appropriate. Your brain knows it says Indians and not Jndians. I don't think Jndians is even a valid word structure.

They need to switch everything over to the darker navy blue, and they need to put the same piping on the neck and sleeves of each jersey.

I would relegate Chief Wahoo to the sleeve if he stays, but I would rather see a colorful, realistic depiction of a Native American in profile like the Blackhawks' logo take his place on the sleeve. If Chief Wahoo is retained, I would make his skin a brown/tan or gold color.

I would nix the red cap, opting for the solid blue cap and red C for all uniforms. I would also nix the blue jersey(s) as I like my baseball uniforms to be white and grey, generally.

I don't have a preference for which direction they go, but it should be one of these two for all the jerseys: 1. Blue lettering with red outlines and red piping on the jersey and pants, along with blue sleeves and socks. 2. Red lettering with blue outlines and piping on the jersey and pants, along with blue sleeves and socks. They are currently rocking a strange combination of the two.

[oldschoolvikings]

Well this thread took it's typical dump. Thank you to all of you that just had to start up the stupid Cheif Wahoo debate once again. Please give it a rest!

As for the real topic, their identitiy = uniforms, is there any real reason why the Indians opted to go with a script home and blue jerseys and then do the complete opposite and have block script for their road grey and cream jerseys? I'm just curious if anyone in the know has ever heard their reasoning for it.

I think there's probably a good reason the "stupid Chief Wahoo debate" comes up so often. You're free to disagree with any other poster's opinions, and of course, state your own, but don't expect anybody to "give it a rest" anytime soon.

[IceCap]

Well this thread took it's typical dump. Thank you to all of you that just had to start up the stupid Cheif Wahoo debate once again. Please give it a rest!

As for the real topic, their identitiy = uniforms, is there any real reason why the Indians opted to go with a script home and blue jerseys and then do the complete opposite and have block script for their road grey and cream jerseys? I'm just curious if anyone in the know has ever heard their reasoning for it.

I think there's probably a good reason the "stupid Chief Wahoo debate" comes up so often. You're free to disagree with any other poster's opinions, and of course, state your own, but don't expect anybody to "give it a rest" anytime soon.

Exactly. Especially in a thread called "Indians' Identity." Had the original poster said "can we keep this to the discussion of the different mismatched scripts and leave the Wahoo debate for another time?" that would be one thing. He didn't though, and as such the Wahoo debate is on topic and relevant.

[CrazyAnna]

That's fine. It just seems to appear far too often on here . I've seen it blow up and get out of control almost everytime. The logo doesn't bother me. I have Bella Bella in my blood and the Indians logo and the Redskins team name never offended me or my family. As for Wahoo on their uniforms, I prefer it on the sleeve versus on the hat.

[Discrim]

I know one thing, they had one of baseball's best uniforms before they added silver. Guess it'd be too much to hope they'd simply have gone back to the 90s set and be done with it. Far as the Wahoo vs C cap debate goes, I'm okay with the navy C cap, but I've never minded Wahoo.

The U/V thing, I've seen that. Not in an old school, mind you, but in a room in Racine's Memorial Hall, the room I recall has the names of several Revolution-era figures engraved on the walls, among them PAVL REVERE.

[andrewharrington]

I know one thing, they had one of baseball's best uniforms before they added silver. Guess it'd be too much to hope they'd simply have gone back to the 90s set and be done with it. Far as the Wahoo vs C cap debate goes, I'm okay with the navy C cap, but I've never minded Wahoo.

The U/V thing, I've seen that. Not in an old school, mind you, but in a room in Racine's Memorial Hall, the room I recall has the names of several Revolution-era figures engraved on the walls, among them PAVL REVERE.

Yeah, you'll see it in many old buildings. I seem to remember reading some older texts in my Western Philosophy class in high school that used Is instead of Js in certain words we're now accustomed to seeing with a J. Specifically, I remember the name Jocasta, who was Oedipus' mother in the tale, being written as Iocasta.

[ESTONES6]

I can understand how people find Chief Wahoo is offensive. But at the same time, are Hispanic people offended by San Diego using the word "Padre"? Moreover, are Christians offended by the cartoon friar or that Padre means Father?

Again, I see how people can be offended, but at the same time, its beginning to be too much. It's not really a rumor, but the team history says that they were named in honor of a Native American. It's not like Progressive Field is being littered with racist slogans and images of suffrage and genocide of the Native peoples.

[Gothamite]

No, but it does have racist cartoons littered about.

One at least, repeated around the park.

[TruColor]

The Indians have spent much of their history wearing vastly different home and road uniforms, and their best decade was spent in a set featuring a script at home and block on the road. Now, the two dark blues, terrible red cap and questionable logo notwithstanding, they are well on their way to developing a solid identity that may or may not feature a script and block lettering. Either way, I think it works with the mismatched lettering, because it represents the best part of Indians' history and the one that people like to remember. Every change they've been making is in the right direction, except for the red cap, but at least they're wearing red sleeves and socks with it this season. They're a few significant changes from perfect, but they're getting there.

I keep seeing this claim about the Navy caps not matching. Is this true? Certainly the official color specs only designate one shade of Navy, but I don't know what New Era's doing.

[Gothamite]

No New Era cap truly matches the Majestic navy jerseys. You see it with the Brewers as well - doesn't mean they have two blues.

[crashcarson15]

No New Era cap truly matches the Majestic navy jerseys. You see it with the Brewers as well - doesn't mean they have two blues.

But the home hat is a different shade than the road hat. I own both "authentic on-field hats" and the home one is lighter.

[whchoclte]

For me I dont get the whole we won with those uniforms before and those were the glory years argument. They also won with wool uniforms but arent bringing those back. The Indians block is just boring and unimaginative. As designers I think we can do more to highlight a teams originality.

Yes the move for most teams is going back to the retro look and a team like the Blue Jays did it very successfully. But even with those did you have to go back to logo on front just cause it was there before, maybe a sweet red number or light blue # on front instead. Change is good if done tastefully.

I dont mind going old school but lets not lose the creativity in doing so.

[KJTALBOT]

I think the Indians are ripe for a double red identity. Dark Red/Maroon replacing the Navy and Red the same.

Besides that, they need to pick a font (cursive is my preference) and relegate the Chief to a sleeve patch only. This would include a new primary. This team is begging for a feather incorporated into its identity.