Indians' Identity

[TruColor]

No New Era cap truly matches the Majestic navy jerseys. You see it with the Brewers as well - doesn't mean they have two blues.

But the home hat is a different shade than the road hat. I own both "authentic on-field hats" and the home one is lighter.

Let me guess...home cap color on the left, road cap color on the right?:

<--->

[Gfonk04]

I seem to remember reading some older texts in my Western Philosophy class in high school that used Is instead of Js in certain words we're now accustomed to seeing with a J.

Gotta watch that I/J confusion...

It never bothered me, I kinda like the script I, it's different and way better than a monochrome block C. That thing is so lame and so nondescript. I hope whoever "designed" that thing didn't get paid a cent.

My two cents is that I liked the all script Cleveland and Indians wordmarks.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

I don't mind the Indians' two wordmarks of different styles (script and block) on principle. But I think that they have in their history a much better wordmark that they ought to be using, and ought never to have stopped using:

Now, the cap logo -- that I do object to on principle. And, even here, there exists within their history a superior cap logo, the one that goes with this wormark:

Put this that wordmark on their new, clean, white home jerseys; keep the block road wordmark; use the cap shown above; and Bob's-your-uncle.

[Gothamite]

No, thanks. Their current "C" is worlds better.

[McCall]

Yeah and that 70's "Indians" wordmark is all kinds of dated atrociousness.

[Gothamite]

I really like the new script logo. Classic yet modern. It ticks all the boxes.

[The_Admiral]

I'm still a believer in brown and red, which is close to the maroon/red proposal upthread.

[-Akronite-]

A few points for the OP.

I think it is very clear that the Indians identity is muddled. It isn't just that there is a script 'Indians' at home versus a block 'Cleveland' on the road. There is also a block 'Indians' alternate. Plus You have a throwback as the road with a modern alternate and a throwback alternate at home. Plus you have four different caps. Plus you have two shades of navy (not the difference between jersey and cap but between the modern and throwback uniforms). Plus a red cap, which has never really been a trademark for the Indians, is thrown in there for no reason. And what probably bothers me the most, inconsistent piping between uniforms.

The Indians have a lot of good ideas throughout their set. I personally really like the block 'C'. I also, love the script 'Indians' and like the idea of keeping Wahoo around (though if they come up with a good enough logo that fits the team and seems more respectful I'd be down for that, though I think just throwing feathers on a 'C' looks tacky). But right now they have no cohesive identity, just a bunch of different tries at an identity.

As for people usually picking the Tribe to change colors, I think it is for three reasons. The first is obviously an over-abundance of red and blue in the MLB. The second is that a new color scheme like red and brown would be even more fitting for the mascot. And third, a color scheme like the usually proposed red and brown would fit in well with the identity of the city, matching with the Browns. It isn't that people think the Indians lack the history or tenure with red, white, and blue at all. In fact, I see a lot of people on here being absolutely reluctant to make that kind of switch because of how long the team has had those colors. But if you can make it look good, it wouldn't be as hard to make a color switch for the Indians as other teams most likely.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

Yeah and that 70's "Indians" wordmark is all kinds of dated atrociousness.

The critique "dated" is meaningless. Every design from the understated one of the Boston Celtics to the outlandish one of the Cincinnati Bengals is called "dated" by someone. The critique should be on the grounds of aesthetics alone.

And on those grounds, that "Indians" script, in red with a dark outline, would look great on the current white piping-less jersey.

[McCall]

Yeah and that 70's "Indians" wordmark is all kinds of dated atrociousness.

The critique "dated" is meaningless. Every design from the understated one of the Boston Celtics to the outlandish one of the Cincinnati Bengals is called "dated" by someone. The critique should be on the grounds of aesthetics alone.

And on those grounds, that "Indians" script, in red with a dark outline, would look great on the current white piping-less jersey.

In sports branding terms, "dated" means old and only relevant to a certain era or period. "Classic" means old and relevant to multiple, current and/or all eras and periods.

The Celtics is classic. That Indians one is dated.

[ESTONES6]

Yeah and that 70's "Indians" wordmark is all kinds of dated atrociousness.

The critique "dated" is meaningless. Every design from the understated one of the Boston Celtics to the outlandish one of the Cincinnati Bengals is called "dated" by someone. The critique should be on the grounds of aesthetics alone.

And on those grounds, that "Indians" script, in red with a dark outline, would look great on the current white piping-less jersey.

In sports branding terms, "dated" means old and only relevant to a certain era or period. "Classic" means old and relevant to multiple, current and/or all eras and periods.

The Celtics is classic. That Indians one is dated.

I don't think this particular version of the Indians script mark is completely dated, nor do I think its a classic. I think They could make it classic if they thinned up the script a bit, similar to the '50's and '60's when they first had a script mark. I think part of what makes the Indians script feel dated is that its so big and clunky. It looks like a giant bumper sticker on their uniform. Part of that is contributed to the double outline, the thickness of the letters, and even the sheen on the thread itself.

I think if the Indians thinned up the letters and made the script more FLUID rather than more bumperstick/patch-like, it would go a long way. A good example is the old road uniform that had the script Cleveland on them. Because Cleveland is such a longer word, they had to reduce the thickness of the letters and it looked a lot less bulky, a lot less bumpersticker-y, and more of a flowing aspect of the uniform.

[McCall]

Yeah and that 70's "Indians" wordmark is all kinds of dated atrociousness.

The critique "dated" is meaningless. Every design from the understated one of the Boston Celtics to the outlandish one of the Cincinnati Bengals is called "dated" by someone. The critique should be on the grounds of aesthetics alone.

And on those grounds, that "Indians" script, in red with a dark outline, would look great on the current white piping-less jersey.

In sports branding terms, "dated" means old and only relevant to a certain era or period. "Classic" means old and relevant to multiple, current and/or all eras and periods.

The Celtics is classic. That Indians one is dated.

I don't think this particular version of the Indians script mark is completely dated, nor do I think its a classic. I think They could make it classic if they thinned up the script a bit, similar to the '50's and '60's when they first had a script mark. I think part of what makes the Indians script feel dated is that its so big and clunky. It looks like a giant bumper sticker on their uniform. Part of that is contributed to the double outline, the thickness of the letters, and even the sheen on the thread itself.

I think if the Indians thinned up the letters and made the script more FLUID rather than more bumperstick/patch-like, it would go a long way. A good example is the old road uniform that had the script Cleveland on them. Because Cleveland is such a longer word, they had to reduce the thickness of the letters and it looked a lot less bulky, a lot less bumpersticker-y, and more of a flowing aspect of the uniform.

We were referring to the 70's wordmark up the page, not the script. The script could definitely work with some tweaks. That other one, can't.

[Fox]

Here was an Indians concept from my MLB series, in red and brown, with a new "feather C" cap logo.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

Yeah and that 70's "Indians" wordmark is all kinds of dated atrociousness.

The critique "dated" is meaningless. Every design from the understated one of the Boston Celtics to the outlandish one of the Cincinnati Bengals is called "dated" by someone. The critique should be on the grounds of aesthetics alone.

And on those grounds, that "Indians" script, in red with a dark outline, would look great on the current white piping-less jersey.

In sports branding terms, "dated" means old and only relevant to a certain era or period. "Classic" means old and relevant to multiple, current and/or all eras and periods.

Which is circular and self-referential. It amounts to elevating one's own idiosyncratic judgement to an objective standard.

That "Indians" wordmark looks "dated" to you only because the team wore it for just a few years. They could just as easily have kept it for a decade or two, and it would be strongly identified with them.

The beauty of that mark is that it incorporates some a feel of related to Native Americans (without invoking any ridiculous visual sterotypes). It has the right feel to it; it has the same kind of visual approrpiateness for the Indians that both the original and current Texas Rangers marks had/have for that team.

[TheOldRoman]

First off, although we have a problem with too many blue and red teams, the Indians shouldn't change. They have been wearing those colors for 111 years as far as I know, so we will have to live with it. Secondly, I don't like the concept of brown and red. Those colors might work together as brown pants with a red sweater, but they couldn't work together on a sports design. Red is far too close to brown, and I don't think the colors go particularly well together, anyway. Orange goes with brown, yellow goes with brown, and even light blue and light green go with brown. Red just doesn't.

[TheOldRoman]

Which is circular and self-referential. It amounts to elevating one's own idiosyncratic judgement to an objective standard.

That "Indians" wordmark looks "dated" to you only because the team wore it for just a few years. They could just as easily have kept it for a decade or two, and it would be strongly identified with them.

The beauty of that mark is that it incorporates some a feel of related to Native Americans (without invoking any ridiculous visual sterotypes). It has the right feel to it; it has the same kind of visual approrpiateness for the Indians that both the original and current Texas Rangers marks had/have for that team.

No, he is 100% right. Most of the trendy designs are timepieces which will look dated and need to be changed in a few years. Furthermore, the above Rangers wordmark is unbalanced slop.

[andrewharrington]

Which is circular and self-referential. It amounts to elevating one's own idiosyncratic judgement to an objective standard.

That "Indians" wordmark looks "dated" to you only because the team wore it for just a few years. They could just as easily have kept it for a decade or two, and it would be strongly identified with them.

The beauty of that mark is that it incorporates some a feel of related to Native Americans (without invoking any ridiculous visual sterotypes). It has the right feel to it; it has the same kind of visual approrpiateness for the Indians that both the original and current Texas Rangers marks had/have for that team.

No, he is 100% right. Most of the trendy designs are timepieces which will look dated and need to be changed in a few years. Furthermore, the above Rangers wordmark is unbalanced slop.

It's also dated.

[andrewharrington]

First off, although we have a problem with too many blue and red teams, the Indians shouldn't change. They have been wearing those colors for 111 years as far as I know, so we will have to live with it. Secondly, I don't like the concept of brown and red. Those colors might work together as brown pants with a red sweater, but they couldn't work together on a sports design. Red is far too close to brown, and I don't think the colors go particularly well together, anyway. Orange goes with brown, yellow goes with brown, and even light blue and light green go with brown. Red just doesn't.

If the red is vibrant enough and the brown is dark enough, the combo works as well as red and black. The Chiefs' red and the Browns' current shade of brown would be a fine combo, for example. Of course, if you don't particularly like the combo, then there's not really anything that can be done about that sort of personal bias. If you don't like it, you don't like it, and you have that right, but I do think the colors can work fine. I dislike royal blue and black (and purple and black) in almost every case, but if charged with designing a uniform in those colors, I think i could do it effectively.

[winghaz]

McCall, you're going to have to explain just why the Indians' C and wordmark from the 1970s is dated.

Is it dated because it came from the '70s? Funny, it doesn't look like something from the '70s, even though it was.

Is it dated because there are other wordmarks that look better? That would be a valid argument, but it doesn't make the '70s look dated.

Is it dated because it was designed to look like American Indian lettering? Call it prejudicial, call it something, but don't call it dated.

I always did like that look from the '70s (although I think the cursive wordmark is best) because it was unique. Something different than you see on other sports uniforms. I'm just trying to figure out why it's dated.

[Lights Out]

But why does no one say the same about the Mets, or the Giants, or the Twins, or the Padres (oh, wait, no one likes the Padres unis...)?

I do say the same about the Mets, and the Twins for that matter. And the Giants should go back to the road script from their 1994-1999 uniforms, that more closely matched the home Giants script:

The Padres just need to start over entirely.

Oh, and while we're on it, why do the Indians need to change their colors? Have the Twins change theirs if we're worried about too much red/white/blue... but that was discussed in another thread...

I'd like to see the Indians to switch to brown and red, and the Twins to switch to Vikings purple and yellow.