Domestic Soccer 2013

[Jer15]

^

Being a hardcore TFC fan some days it's hard to get up for a game. It never fails though, the second I get to BMO and see the gates I get excited all over again.

I'll say it over and over and over again, soccer is easily the best in stadium experience. One day I'd love to get out to Seattle though, I see the TIFO online and watch the games online and would just love to be there.

Wow, that is saying something TFC may be the worst professional team in the world. Some pub clubs in London can beat them,

I'm dedicated.

[pcgd]

No, but NYCFC can be. As could possibly the Cosmos.

But who wants to watch minor league soccer?

So EVERY league outside the BPL is minor league?

No. MLS is pretty good, not anywhere as good as the top European leagues, but why should amyone watch the Cosmos when MLS is better and there are better leagues than MLS?

What's the point in rooting for anyone outside of the top 10 in college football? Or a DIII basketball team? Or anyone outside of Boston, Chicago, Miami, San Antonio, or LA in the NBA? Or going to AAA baseball games?

Because its not always about watching the best, its about rooting for your hometown team. You can argue that NYC has a hometown team already but as may posters have said, they actually don't based on how the team has treated New York City in the past. The Cosmos represent the city more than any other team has so far, and perhaps will. There is already backlash against the NYCFC team for multiple reasons and if they don't look out they are going to end up RedBulls 2.0. Someone in Indianapolis is much more likely to support the Indy Eleven then they are to support the Crew or Fire exclusively. Plus all those teams play each other in the Open Cup and as recently as 1999 a lower division team has won that tournament and as recently as 2008 a lower division team was the runner up.

The supporter culture in soccer rivals College Sports in terms of the allegiance. If you grew up around a school or went to a school, you are not likely to root for anyone else even if they are in different conference or class than you. Soccer is somewhat the same, except people do have different teams they root for in different countries or competitions. But they still have their 1 favorite and they support them through thick and thin regardless of level on the pyramid.

You'll see some Cosmos fans switch to NYCFC for sure. But I'm betting you'll see plenty stick with them as long as they exist.

It certainly helps that soccer is still developing on the club side of things in this country. It allows you to root for a second division side more enthusiastically than you would say a AAA baseball team. Had the MLS been around as long as the EPL and still was a closed system, it might be way different but that's not the case.

[Needschat]

NYCFC sounds dull. Why not just call them what they are: the New York Football Yankees

[Eye]

No, but NYCFC can be. As could possibly the Cosmos.

But who wants to watch minor league soccer?

So EVERY league outside the BPL is minor league?

No. MLS is pretty good, not anywhere as good as the top European leagues, but why should amyone watch the Cosmos when MLS is better and there are better leagues than MLS?

What's the point in rooting for anyone outside of the top 10 in college football? Or a DIII basketball team? Or anyone outside of Boston, Chicago, Miami, San Antonio, or LA in the NBA? Or going to AAA baseball games?

Because its not always about watching the best, its about rooting for your hometown team. You can argue that NYC has a hometown team already but as may posters have said, they actually don't based on how the team has treated New York City in the past. The Cosmos represent the city more than any other team has so far, and perhaps will. There is already backlash against the NYCFC team for multiple reasons and if they don't look out they are going to end up RedBulls 2.0. Someone in Indianapolis is much more likely to support the Indy Eleven then they are to support the Crew or Fire exclusively. Plus all those teams play each other in the Open Cup and as recently as 1999 a lower division team has won that tournament and as recently as 2008 a lower division team was the runner up.

The supporter culture in soccer rivals College Sports in terms of the allegiance. If you grew up around a school or went to a school, you are not likely to root for anyone else even if they are in different conference or class than you. Soccer is somewhat the same, except people do have different teams they root for in different countries or competitions. But they still have their 1 favorite and they support them through thick and thin regardless of level on the pyramid.

You'll see some Cosmos fans switch to NYCFC for sure. But I'm betting you'll see plenty stick with them as long as they exist.

It certainly helps that soccer is still developing on the club side of things in this country. It allows you to root for a second division side more enthusiastically than you would say a AAA baseball team. Had the MLS been around as long as the EPL and still was a closed system, it might be way different but that's not the case.

All this is fine and everything, but my point is that NASL is so far below the best, it will be very hard for them to be relevant. My hometown team is a rec team. Should I cheer for them?

[pcgd]

How can you say its "so far below the rest" when 2 of them beat MLS teams in the US Open Cup this year? They were upsets but its not like its a Rec League taking on the NBA.

I do see your point in some ways if it was a different sport. Say NBDL vs. NBA. I won't stop rooting for the Bulls to root for the Ft. Wayne Fire Ants (heck I'm not even switching to root for the Pacers). Or AAA baseball vs. MLB, I go to Indians games to enjoy baseball live for cheap, my allegiance is still with the Birds on the Bat. Or an upstart football league vs. the NFL. Or AHL vs. NHL, etc.

However I think soccer really is unique here where there isn't this 100 year old league with the traditions and loyalties that have developed so its much easier to root for a lower division team because its really not so far off from the top division. Yes the MLS is the first divsion here, but it's really not impossible to imagine the NASL or another league becoming as big as them. Its also not impossible to imagine that the MLS starts to struggle and another league takes it's place as the top division. Its not likely but its much more likely to happen than to one of the Big 4 leagues.

[raysox]

Plus, I don't think you give the NASL the credit they deserve. These aren't guys who just call each other and arrange a game every Saturday. They're professionals with something to prove.

Plus, every MLS game isn't televised. You see teams like Seattle and LA on all the time, but if you were in a place like Atlanta, you couldn't root for the closest team like you do the Braves, Falcons, or Bulldogs.

[Drew22]

Plus, I don't think you give the NASL the credit they deserve. These aren't guys who just call each other and arrange a game every Saturday. They're professionals with something to prove.

Plus, every MLS game isn't televised. You see teams like Seattle and LA on all the time, but if you were in a place like Atlanta, you couldn't root for the closest team like you do the Braves, Falcons, or Bulldogs.

Exactly. The NASL is just as much of a pro league as the MLS. Sure the crowds and stadiums aren't as big, but it's still the real thing.

Also, yes for Atlanta, the closest MLS team is Columbus, which I don't think I've ever seen on TV here in Atlanta. They've been on NBC Sports twice this year apparently, but I missed it.

[-kj]

Plus, every MLS game isn't televised. You see teams like Seattle and LA on all the time, but if you were in a place like Atlanta, you couldn't root for the closest team like you do the Braves, Falcons, or Bulldogs.

Well, there is MLS Direct Kick, which I have.

Then again, I got this tattoo last year:

Going to games in person and being part of the experience is about five million times better than watching on TV. So I say, as usual: support your local club, damnit. You might just enjoy it even if it's not a "top-notch" league.

(Of course, I hate the Silverbacks, but that's a league rivalry thing.)

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Not sure I want to know where that tattoo is.

Anyway, "what you like is dumb" is the internet's worst argument, yet happens all the time and we're all guilty of it.

[-kj]

On my left chest.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Thanks for clarifying.

What's the difference between NASL and USL Pro?

[-kj]

They're two different leagues.

Otherwise.. can you clarify the question?

[Jer15]

NASL is division 2, USL Pro is division 3.

Also division 3 has "country exclusive" leagues like the rest of the world (for the most part..yes I know there are exceptions) Canada has the CSL (which is no longer sanctioned and will be replaced) and the USL Pro is the American D-3 league.

Also USL Pro (as of this year) is sort of acting as the "farm league" for MLS.

[-kj]

The CSL's going to be replaced? I knew they'd gotten unsanctioned, but I didn't know there was a plan to replace it entirely. Is that Ontario League One? Has the CSA given up on the idea of a national league?

[Jer15]

You're spot on man. Ontario League One is the plan. I guess the CSL is not getting replaced per say, because they don't intend to go away.

I think that the likelihood is that we are going to see a soccer equivalent of the CHL, just with 2 leagues. Ontario/Quebec/Maritimes and everything West of Ontario in a second league.

[jkrdevil]

How do the Cosomos represent NYC (especially to those who say Red Bulls arent a NY team)? The adopted a brand of a team that played in NJ and they currently play out on Long Island.

The Cosmos hype is overblown. Especially when you consider it was a dead brand for 20 years. Does the Cosmos mean anything to those under 40 and grew up with MLS. I grew up in NJ (granted I wasnt a soccer fan), and I had never heard of the Cosmos until the ESPN doc came out when I was in college.

Now do I think they can be a succesful NASL team? Yes. Can they be a challenge to the MLS teams? No. And for the record I don't anticipate NYCFC as being anymore succesful as the Red Bulls currently are. They'll be able to draw in so of the western NY metro area crowd who find it difficult to get to Harrison, but it isn't going to be a success like some of the other MLS 2.0 teams. Too much sports wise going on in the area for them to break through.

[-kj]

I think that the likelihood is that we are going to see a soccer equivalent of the CHL, just with 2 leagues. Ontario/Quebec/Maritimes and everything West of Ontario in a second league.

What about PLSQ?

[Jer15]

I do know that PLSQ is in the talks, you are correct about that. I believe it was mentioned in the report that the CSA released earlier this year regarding developing players and leagues.

When I mentioned 2 leagues, I was just saying what I think is more sustainable longer term. Personal opinion, nothing more.

[Gothamite]

How do the Cosomos represent NYC (especially to those who say Red Bulls arent a NY team)? The adopted a brand of a team that played in NJ and they currently play out on Long Island.

"Played in NJ"? The Cosmos formerly played on Long Island, the Meadowlands, Manhattan and the Bronx.

But it's not about where they play. It's about outreach to youth soccer groups in NYC, supporting fan groups in NYC, sponsoring the local amateur tournament in NYC, having youth academies in NYC, running buses from NYC soccer pubs, holding tryouts in all five NYC boroughs, conducting ongoing soccer clinics in the city and all the many other things that the Cosmos do every day to support and promote a soccer culture in the city. None of which the MetroStars/Red Bulls thought to do. They didn't even bother advertising in NYC until the Cosmos started up again.

Nobody seriously suggests that the Jets or Giants don't represent NYC. Those teams might play in the western suburbs, but are very much a part of the city's culture. As are the Cosmos. I'd love for their new stadium to be within the five boroughs, but even if they stay in the suburbs they'll be very much the city's first team.

The Cosmos hype is overblown. Especially when you consider it was a dead brand for 20 years. Does the Cosmos mean anything to those under 40 and grew up with MLS. I grew up in NJ (granted I wasnt a soccer fan), and I had never heard of the Cosmos until the ESPN doc came out when I was in college.

Well, there you have it. Had you been a soccer fan growing up, then you'd possibly have attended the Cosmos youth camps in NJ, which continued from the last professional game right through the point that the new owners bought the organization. They never really left, just changed focus.

As to whether the brand still has value, I give you: Umbro. Nike. Air Emerates. Hardly pikers,

and they certainly believe that it does. As does the NASL, as does MLS (which wanted to get its hands on the crest).

[Brian in Boston]

Can people please stop perpetuating the myth that today's NASL New York Cosmos are the same professional sports organization that played in the original North American Soccer League from 1971 through 1984, participated in the 1984-85 Major Indoor Soccer League season for 33 of a scheduled 48 games before dropping out due to an inability to draw sufficient crowds, and attempted to play a series of independent exhibition matches in 1985 before folding. It is simply not true.

Rather, said fantasy is the brainchild of fabulist G. Peppe Pinton, a world-class jock-sniffer and ass-kisser who parlayed his penchant for unparalleled obsequiousness into a post helping to operate Cosmos-branded soccer camps and a role as Giorgio Chinaglia's errand-boy. When Time-Warner sold majority control of Global Soccer, Inc. - its subsidiary charged with operating the Cosmos - to investors backing Chinaglia in June of 1984, Chinaglia named Pinton the team's managing director. In said position, Pinton managed to oversee the Cosmos being ousted from the NASL for failing to post a $150,000 bond committing them to play in a 1985 season if the league should be able to stage one, as well as the aforementioned aborted MISL campaign. Pinton resigned as managing director of the Cosmos on June 17, 1985, doing so before Chinaglia had even made the decision to fold the franchise.

I'll grant that Pinton showed the tenacity to hold on for dear life once he got ahold of Chinaglia's coattails. I'll grant that Pinton had the foresight to obtain and maintain the trademark protection for the New York Cosmos' name and logo, as well as the name of Soccer Camps of America - the youth division that the original New York Cosmos established in 1977. I'll even grant that Pinton spent the better part of the 28 years since the original New York Cosmos folded overseeing Cosmos Soccer Camps purportedly being operated by the original Soccer Camps of America. However, given that the entity which purchased majority control of the Cosmos from Time-Warner - Giorgio Chinaglia and Joe Berardo's Long John Associated, Inc. - was a separate entity from Soccer Camps of America, and given that Long John Associated, Inc. went the way of the dodo with the folding of the original Cosmos, I'm going to call bullfeces on Pepe Pinton's Cosmos Soccer Camps and Soccer Camps of America being the same organization as the professional soccer franchise that Ahmet Ertegun, Nesuhi Ertegun, and Steve Ross founded.

Pepe Pinton can spin all of the Munchausen-like tall-tales that he wants to about how he single-handedly maintained the operation of the original New York Cosmos until the day that Paul Kemsley purchased the intellectual property rights to the Cosmos name and logo from him. That said, at the end of the day the original New York Cosmos organization did not choose to change its focus from fielding a competitive professional soccer side to solely operating youth camps. The original New York Cosmos organization folded. It ceased to exist. In the wake of that event happening, a former employee in the New York Cosmos youth soccer division who had managed to rump-swab his way to a virtually meaningless executive position with a pro soccer team in its death-throes, showed the presence of mind to obtain and maintain the trademark rights to certain intellectual property that had once belonged to the original Cosmos. He then spent the better part of three decades tirelessly working to realize his dream: namely, cashing-in by selling-off said trademark rights to someone who would consent to paying a seven-figure sum for them. Period.