Domestic Soccer 2013

[Drew22]

So the Silverbacks and Cosmos play back to back Saturdays in Atlanta these next two weekends. Only the second game is for the NASL title. I will be at both games. I hope the Silverbacks can win the title, but they've had poor form in the fall and I'm afraid they won't be able to just flip the switch.

[dfwabel]

MLM companies must love MLS and the 'soccer mom' demo.

Real Salt Lake kit to be sponsored by LifeVantage

They join Herbalife and AdvoCare.

[Gothamite]

Great. Another pyramid scheme. Reflects very poorly on the league that they have three of these as jersey sponsors.

Right. These Cosmos are like the Browns; unaffiliated with the previous version, regardless of what they say.

^ this.

Except, wait, no. The exact opposite. Not true at all.

[pcgd]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense for a team that's been around for half a season in a league that's been around for 2 seasons to put six stars on their jersey's after their first championship.

[Nyk33]

Great. Another pyramid scheme. Reflects very poorly on the league that they have three of these as jersey sponsors.

Right. These Cosmos are like the Browns; unaffiliated with the previous version, regardless of what they say.

^ this.

Except, wait, no. The exact opposite. Not true at all.

Can you possibly expand on that a little bit?

I actually like this Cosmos team and want them to do well. I also do not mind the way they have gone about marketing the connection to the Cosmos team of old so far (only the biggest moron on the planet wouldn't so that) but the six star thing would cross the line for me. It probably has to do with the way I appreciate the fact that new Cosmos logo isn't a 100% copy and paste of the original signaling a desire to form a new path.

[Eye]

Great. Another pyramid scheme. Reflects very poorly on the league that they have three of these as jersey sponsors.

Right. These Cosmos are like the Browns; unaffiliated with the previous version, regardless of what they say.

^ this.

Except, wait, no. The exact opposite. Not true at all.

Let us know how you've come to that conclusion because I'm interested.

[Gothamite]

Unlike the Browns (and the future Sonics), there is one clear and continuous organizational line with the Cosmos.

The team was founded in 1971. Became a huge sensation in 1976, branched out into youth soccer camps in New Jersey in 1977 (academies were extremely important to general manager Clive Toye). Kept right on going until the North American Soccer League collapsed in 1984, tried to move into indoor soccer for one year but that failed too.

General manager Pepe Pinton was left holding the bag. He stopped fielding a men's team, put the gear into storage, but kept the youth camps going. This is the important part - the organization never actually went away. The same Cosmos Youth Soccer Camps were in operation in 1977, when Pele wore the whites, were still going until the day Pinton sold the entire organization to Paul Kemsley in 2010. Kemsley didn't just buy the name - he bought the entire organization, including vast archives of materials, game film, business records, all the trophies and everything. He bought the entire business Pinton had kept alive, lock stock and barrel.

Kemsley wasn't sufficiently capitalized to make a real run at joining a league, so he in turn sold the organization to the current owners, who joined the NASL. (The new NASL is not the old NASL for the same reasons the new Cosmos are the same old Cosmos, btw.)

We wouldn't say that the Cosmos organization going to the Soccer Bowl isn't the same as the one Kemsley was trying to get into MLS, and neither is it a different organization from the soccer camps or before that the team founded by the Ertegun brothers forty-plus years ago.

I understand the complaints about the Browns, especially the lack of continuity, but those just don't apply to the Cosmos club, which evolved over the years into different areas of the sport but never ceased being an ongoing concern.

The Cosmos might be indulging themselves in an extra-large dollop of nostalgia-marketing when they trumpet their club's glorious past, but they're not being dishonest in doing so.

[Foxxtrot44]

MLM companies must love MLS and the 'soccer mom' demo.

Real Salt Lake kit to be sponsored by LifeVantage

They join Herbalife and AdvoCare.

MLMs are an important and hilarious part of Utah culture...I wont stand for people sullying their (typically ridiculous) names!

[Gothamite]

Not to mention RSL's prior deal with Xango, which terminated amidst allegations of "asset mismanagement, intimidation and illegal activities from fraud to bribery" on the part of five of the six founders.

http://deseretnews.com/article/865580379/Real-Salt-Lake-No-comment-on-XanGo-mismanagement-accusations.html

Are pyramid schemes really the best MLS can do?

[dfwabel]

Not to mention RSL's prior deal with Xango, which terminated amidst allegations of "asset mismanagement, intimidation and illegal activities from fraud to bribery" on the part of five of the six founders.

http://deseretnews.com/article/865580379/Real-Salt-Lake-No-comment-on-XanGo-mismanagement-accusations.html

Are pyramid schemes really the best MLS can do?

The dietary supplement industry is Utah's largest, and is over $7b/year. There have been two PBS Frontline episodes on it in the last decade

[Gothamite]

So what? Crack dealers make a ton of money too.

I'm sorry for Utah if it's built its economy on a sleazy industry (occasionally run by especially sleazy human beings to boot), but it looks terrible for MLS to get into bed with them.

[Eye]

Unlike the Browns (and the future Sonics), there is one clear and continuous organizational line with the Cosmos.

The team was founded in 1971. Became a huge sensation in 1976, branched out into youth soccer camps in New Jersey in 1977 (academies were extremely important to general manager Clive Toye). Kept right on going until the North American Soccer League collapsed in 1984, tried to move into indoor soccer for one year but that failed too.

General manager Pepe Pinton was left holding the bag. He stopped fielding a men's team, put the gear into storage, but kept the youth camps going. This is the important part - the organization never actually went away. The same Cosmos Youth Soccer Camps were in operation in 1977, when Pele wore the whites, were still going until the day Pinton sold the entire organization to Paul Kemsley in 2010. Kemsley didn't just buy the name - he bought the entire organization, including vast archives of materials, game film, business records, all the trophies and everything. He bought the entire business Pinton had kept alive, lock stock and barrel.

Kemsley wasn't sufficiently capitalized to make a real run at joining a league, so he in turn sold the organization to the current owners, who joined the NASL. (The new NASL is not the old NASL for the same reasons the new Cosmos are the same old Cosmos, btw.)

We wouldn't say that the Cosmos organization going to the Soccer Bowl isn't the same as the one Kemsley was trying to get into MLS, and neither is it a different organization from the soccer camps or before that the team founded by the Ertegun brothers forty-plus years ago.

I understand the complaints about the Browns, especially the lack of continuity, but those just don't apply to the Cosmos club, which evolved over the years into different areas of the sport but never ceased being an ongoing concern.

The Cosmos might be indulging themselves in an extra-large dollop of nostalgia-marketing when they trumpet their club's glorious past, but they're not being dishonest in doing so.

So they stopped playing for 25 + years, then started playing again. Not the same team. Holding camps between years they weren't playing, doesn't mean they're the same team when they came back. "Never ceasing to be an ongoing concern," as you put it, doesn't mean they're the same, because the Browns "never ceased to be an ongoing concern," but they came back, AND you said they don't apply here, which isn't true. I don't know if the Browns (or Cosmos, or any other team) had camps for their respective sports when they didn't have a team, but it doesn't matter, because even if they did, the new team is not the same as the old.

[Gothamite]

It's the same legal entity, it's the same club in the European sense.

Regardless, they never ceased operations. Not analogous to the Browns at all for that very reason.

[twi]

Lol this again. I've got a bridge for sale, it comes with a good back story too...

[Gothamite]

Hey, if your bridge's provenance is half as valid as the Cosmos', then I'd be interested in making an offer.

[twi]

Half of nothing doesn't leave much!

Lol I posted my previous one before you're response, so apologies if it appeared more jab-like than intended. It's just a personal pet peeve (bothers me waaaaaay more than it should) when team histories get mixed. In my opinion Cosmos are one of most egregious but it's mainly a matter of semantics I suppose. (Team versus organization versus franchise yadda yadda yadda...) I feel strangely compelled to thank Winnipeg 2.0 again for not giving in!

[Gothamite]

If the Cosmos situation was like Winnipeg's, I'd be with you there.

The current Brewers are not the original club (any of them). Neither are the Orioles, or Padres, or as you point out, Winnipeg Jets. I think the Washington Nationals' pretend connection to the original is laughable. But the Cosmos have the clear lineage that the others lack. It's a different case.

[crashcarson15]

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I'm going to the Sounders/Rapids game tomorrow. The Sounders had a really crappy last six games of the season, but at least Dempsey finally scored!

[Eye]

If the Cosmos situation was like Winnipeg's, I'd be with you there.

The current Brewers are not the original club (any of them). Neither are the Orioles, or Padres, or as you point out, Winnipeg Jets. I think the Washington Nationals' pretend connection to the original is laughable. But the Cosmos have the clear lineage that the others lack. It's a different case.

But they don't have a clear lineage. The team didn't play for 25 years. Hosting soccer camps under the team name is not the same as having a team. The Cosmos website indicates it isn't the same team because it says they played their last game in 1985. Surely a team who wouldn't have ended, wouldn't have played their last game.