Mizzou's Michael Sam comes out

[charger77]

Another thing. I'm in grade nine, and another guy in a couple of my classes is a big homophobe. He doesn't hate on them directly, but he'll talk about bringing his shotgun to school and shooting them all up. So, not just homophobic, but psychopathic, in my opinion whether he's joking or not(he probably is, but mass murder of a race, sexuality or gender isn't a laughing matter).

That needs to be reported to the police ASAP. Even if he never follows through on that specific threat, the guy's a hate crime waiting to happen. It's one thing to say "I oppose gay marriage because of this reason." It's another thing to talk about killing them for no reason other than who they are.

Agreed, report it asap.

If you are afraid of being identified as the one who reported it tell a teacher you trust and they will likely understand and keep your name out of it. I have students come to me quite often with stuff like this and I am able to keep their names out of it. My principal is pretty cool and realizes that by keeping the name of the whistleblower silent, students are willing to come forward.

Odds are, he thinks he is being funny, but your principal putting a good scare into him should bring it to a grinding stop.

[Sport]

You'll also have to indulge me a bit, as I find the idea that I'm something someone can be against a bit disgusting and infuriating; I take it a bit personally, even.

The man said that he believes being gay is wrong. He didn't say he's against you. Just because he may not agree with everything you do doesn't mean he's against you.

In past threads on the topic of gay people he has said he's against LGBT's because of his Christian beliefs, which is what Mockba was referencing. As a Christian myself I find hate derived from Christianity incredibly offensive and completely antithetical to the entire point of Jesus Christ.

The man derails every thread about this subject and here we go again.

"Why do they need to come out?"

So people like Nuordr can finally get it through their dense skulls that gay people are a part of society and that hiding who they are isn't fair to them. Does nuordr have to hide that he's a rube? No, he gets to be himself and so should everybody else regardless, even his icky gay black sheep stepbrother.

Also, Michael Sam may have just saved hundreds if not thousands of lives. Suicide rates for LGBT teens are higher than the average population. If they have a role model like Michael Sam proving that it does get better they'll be more likely to identify and feel less alone. At the very least he just allowed young gay men to feel like they're allowed to participate in athletics. That's why he needs to come out.

If you have a problem with his announcement that's a you problem. Not a Michael Sam problem.

[BBTV]

I sincerely hope that people like Nuodr end up having gay children, or find out that whoever they love most in the world is gay, and find out how silly their beliefs are. Those "beliefs" are built on FEAR and nothing else.

Frankly Nuodr, this world would be a better place for everyone if you and those who share your beliefs were not a part of it. You have no idea how you and people like you hurt and divide people, and quite frankly I find a little pity in side me for you, since you live in so much fear. I think it's great that because of people like Michael Sam and others, we're getting to a point where within a few generations, people who's views are like yours will have mostly died off, and your kids may be a little more enlightened than their parents and grandparents.

You do your entire religion a disservice when you post thigns like you do here, because there are plenty of christians who don't have as much fear and hate in them, but unfortunately people like you cast a negative light on everyone. I live in a very diverse part of the city, and do a ton of volunteer work with inner-city high school kids. I see the challenges that they face every day, most of which people like you could never fathom. It's a shame that because of people like you, in addition to dealing with the things that they deal with, 1 in 10 of them also feels the need to hide who they are because of the backlash they'll get from their "christian brothers".

It's sad that none of this message board debating matters, nothing that is shown on the news matters, no argument that any reasonable person can put forward will matter, and the only way to change opinions like yours is to wait for you and your kind to die off.

[OldRamsFan]

You'll also have to indulge me a bit, as I find the idea that I'm something someone can be against a bit disgusting and infuriating; I take it a bit personally, even.

The man said that he believes being gay is wrong. He didn't say he's against you. Just because he may not agree with everything you do doesn't mean he's against you.

Silly Mockba. He's not against you, just what you are. Why on earth would you take his prejudice against you and make it personal?

That's not what I said. I said he's against some things Mockba does.

[OnWis97]

The biggest problem is that people keep thinking about the sex. "Do what you want in your bedroom, but I don't want to know about it." Get your head out of the gutter. It may be the sex that makes some of you queasy and fearful (of yourself, to the point of having to prove something with your attitude) but it is really about the relationships. We take it in such stride when our co-workers are married or have hetero partners. We don't think about the sex then (at least most of us don't). If I don't think about the sex between my co-worker Shawn and his wife Nina, why then would my mind go immediately to the sex between my co-worker Keith and his partner Dave? For me it does not. Perhaps it's because I am not insecure? Perhaps because I am not a pervert? Perhaps because I just don't get too hung up on what others do. I don't know, but the bottom line is that we are not asking people to hide their bedroom activities (we all already do that); we are asking them to hide who they are just so we can feel better.

This would be MUCH less of a problem if people had the ability to recognize it for what it is: dealing with who people are instead of what people "do". If you are thinking about what a gay couple does in the bedroom it really is your problem and you should give some thought to why you think about that and why you don't think about that with a hetero couple.

As for the who religion thing...I sometimes think it must be a struggle to balance the religious beliefs with the realities of the day, but perhaps it does not have to be. Most Americans identify as Christians and I'd say at least half are very supportive of gay rights...there has to be some overlap there. One person on this thread already said he's a Christian and this is just not a problem for him. Being religious is one thing...using it as a replacement for critical thought is quite another.

And frankly, I think the "religion" excuse is just that (an excuse) 90% of the time. A lame excuse used by people that don't want to truly address their own fears and insecurities (and hatred, which I feel is rooted in the aforementioned fears and insecurities). And if any player says he does not want a gay teammate for "Christian" reasons, I'll believe him as soon as he starts trying to remove adulterers.

Finally, to question Sam, knowing nothing about his feelings, what he's gone through as a gay athlete, and what it's like to be in the closet with his family and friends (not to mention his very public career choice) just because "I don't want to hear about this" is lazy and cowardly. A guy needs to come out when he needs to come out for himself. And I am sorry but the comparisons to race are silly. Yes, there is still racism, but a black guy on a team is nothing. It was a big deal in the 1940s and a HUGE deal was made out of it. When Russell Wilson became the 2nd black QB to win the Super Bowl, nobody really said antying...in fact, it did not even occur to me until well after the game. But When Doug Williams became the 1st, it was a big deal. Same with this. An openly gay player is also a HUGE deal. And it will be for a while until one day it's not. We all know Jackie Robinson. Many of us know Larry Doby. But who was next? I look forward to the time when it's no big deal, but for now, I appreciate someone with the courage to knock the first brick out of the wall.

[vicfurth]

I sincerely hope that people like Nuodr end up having gay children, or find out that whoever they love most in the world is gay, and find out how silly their beliefs are. Those "beliefs" are built on FEAR and nothing else.

Frankly Nuodr, this world would be a better place for everyone if you and those who share your beliefs were not a part of it. You have no idea how you and people like you hurt and divide people, and quite frankly I find a little pity in side me for you, since you live in so much fear. I think it's great that because of people like Michael Sam and others, we're getting to a point where within a few generations, people who's views are like yours will have mostly died off, and your kids may be a little more enlightened than their parents and grandparents.

You do your entire religion a disservice when you post thigns like you do here, because there are plenty of christians who don't have as much fear and hate in them, but unfortunately people like you cast a negative light on everyone. I live in a very diverse part of the city, and do a ton of volunteer work with inner-city high school kids. I see the challenges that they face every day, most of which people like you could never fathom. It's a shame that because of people like you, in addition to dealing with the things that they deal with, 1 in 10 of them also feels the need to hide who they are because of the backlash they'll get from their "christian brothers".

It's sad that none of this message board debating matters, nothing that is shown on the news matters, no argument that any reasonable person can put forward will matter, and the only way to change opinions like yours is to wait for you and your kind to die off.

So you want nuordr dead? Interesting.

[LAWeaver]

I sincerely hope that people like Nuodr end up having gay children, or find out that whoever they love most in the world is gay, and find out how silly their beliefs are. Those "beliefs" are built on FEAR and nothing else.

Frankly Nuodr, this world would be a better place for everyone if you and those who share your beliefs were not a part of it. You have no idea how you and people like you hurt and divide people, and quite frankly I find a little pity in side me for you, since you live in so much fear. I think it's great that because of people like Michael Sam and others, we're getting to a point where within a few generations, people who's views are like yours will have mostly died off, and your kids may be a little more enlightened than their parents and grandparents.

You do your entire religion a disservice when you post thigns like you do here, because there are plenty of christians who don't have as much fear and hate in them, but unfortunately people like you cast a negative light on everyone. I live in a very diverse part of the city, and do a ton of volunteer work with inner-city high school kids. I see the challenges that they face every day, most of which people like you could never fathom. It's a shame that because of people like you, in addition to dealing with the things that they deal with, 1 in 10 of them also feels the need to hide who they are because of the backlash they'll get from their "christian brothers".

It's sad that none of this message board debating matters, nothing that is shown on the news matters, no argument that any reasonable person can put forward will matter, and the only way to change opinions like yours is to wait for you and your kind to die off.

So you want nuordr dead? Interesting.

He pretty much told me the same thing a few months back

[Sport]

Stop being dramatic. There are less racists now (not saying racism is gone) because most of the overtly racist people died and their offspring were educated not to be racist.

Same thing here. You don't have to die, just stop being an intolerant bastard or keep being intolerant, but please don't teach your kids to be intolerant. And for the love of god stop doing it in the name of Christianity you linear thinking morons. That doesn't help anybody.

There is no arguing that the world would be a better place with fewer intolerant bastards.

The biggest problem is that people keep thinking about the sex. "Do what you want in your bedroom, but I don't want to know about it." Get your head out of the gutter. It may be the sex that makes some of you queasy and fearful (of yourself, to the point of having to prove something with your attitude) but it is really about the relationships. We take it in such stride when our co-workers are married or have hetero partners. We don't think about the sex then (at least most of us don't). If I don't think about the sex between my co-worker Shawn and his wife Nina, why then would my mind go immediately to the sex between my co-worker Keith and his partner Dave? For me it does not. Perhaps it's because I am not insecure? Perhaps because I am not a pervert? Perhaps because I just don't get too hung up on what others do. I don't know, but the bottom line is that we are not asking people to hide their bedroom activities (we all already do that); we are asking them to hide who they are just so we can feel better.

This would be MUCH less of a problem if people had the ability to recognize it for what it is: dealing with who people are instead of what people "do". If you are thinking about what a gay couple does in the bedroom it really is your problem and you should give some thought to why you think about that and why you don't think about that with a hetero couple.

As for the who religion thing...I sometimes think it must be a struggle to balance the religious beliefs with the realities of the day, but perhaps it does not have to be. Most Americans identify as Christians and I'd say at least half are very supportive of gay rights...there has to be some overlap there. One person on this thread already said he's a Christian and this is just not a problem for him. Being religious is one thing...using it as a replacement for critical thought is quite another.

And frankly, I think the "religion" excuse is just that (an excuse) 90% of the time. A lame excuse used by people that don't want to truly address their own fears and insecurities (and hatred, which I feel is rooted in the aforementioned fears and insecurities). And if any player says he does not want a gay teammate for "Christian" reasons, I'll believe him as soon as he starts trying to remove adulterers.

Finally, to question Sam, knowing nothing about his feelings, what he's gone through as a gay athlete, and what it's like to be in the closet with his family and friends (not to mention his very public career choice) just because "I don't want to hear about this" is lazy and cowardly. A guy needs to come out when he needs to come out for himself. And I am sorry but the comparisons to race are silly. Yes, there is still racism, but a black guy on a team is nothing. It was a big deal in the 1940s and a HUGE deal was made out of it. When Russell Wilson became the 2nd black QB to win the Super Bowl, nobody really said antying...in fact, it did not even occur to me until well after the game. But When Doug Williams became the 1st, it was a big deal. Same with this. An openly gay player is also a HUGE deal. And it will be for a while until one day it's not. We all know Jackie Robinson. Many of us know Larry Doby. But who was next? I look forward to the time when it's no big deal, but for now, I appreciate someone with the courage to knock the first brick out of the wall.

I wanted to like this post, but I ran out of likes for the day because I liked too many of the other well thought out posts in this thread.

[vicfurth]

Is it dramatic to point out what someone else said?

Again, let me be Christian voice of reason. I'm against bigotry, period. My religion, at its root, is against bigotry. My God, that everyone tries so damned hard to paint as evil, is loving and fully 100% against bigotry.

That road goes two ways, though. To preach tolerance while hoping for others to die is, inherently, a bigoted mindset. What I'm striving to do is keep it in perspective. It's wrong either way, and no matter who it's coming from.

To get back to Michael Sam, I believe the nfl already new his orientation long ago. For cripes sake, they know everything about these kids in advance. He won't go undrafted.

[Sport]

Is it dramatic to point out what someone else said?

I was addressing everybody.

The bigots don't have to die. Just stop being bigots.

[rams80]

You'll also have to indulge me a bit, as I find the idea that I'm something someone can be against a bit disgusting and infuriating; I take it a bit personally, even.

The man said that he believes being gay is wrong. He didn't say he's against you. Just because he may not agree with everything you do doesn't mean he's against you.

Silly Mockba. He's not against you, just what you are. Why on earth would you take his prejudice against you and make it personal?

That's not what I said. I said he's against some things Mockba does.

He's against a fundamental part of Mockba's being. It'd be like me cracking on you for being *plays the odds* white.

[LAWeaver]

Back on topic, I do wish Michael the best of luck in the NFL. He is a good player. If he were on my team, I'd be fine with that despite us having different beliefs. As long as he would be able to help my team win games.

[pcgd]

Ah, how quickly the ultra-conservative rhetoric changed from "gays are evil and gross" to "just don't rub it in my face." Just goes to show you how even they know they are wrong on this issue and are slowly coming around.

You'll always be on the wrong side of history, but just like smoking, if you quit now it'll be much better in the long run for you.

[rams80]

Back on topic, I do wish Michael the best of luck in the NFL. He is a good player. If he were on my team, I'd be fine with that despite us having different beliefs. As long as he would be able to help my team win games.

Are we back to the whole "science is a belief" bullplop again?

[IceCap]

Is it dramatic to point out what someone else said?

Again, let me be Christian voice of reason. I'm against bigotry, period. My religion, at its root, is against bigotry. My God, that everyone tries so damned hard to paint as evil, is loving and fully 100% against bigotry.

That road goes two ways, though. To preach tolerance while hoping for others to die is, inherently, a bigoted mindset. What I'm striving to do is keep it in perspective. It's wrong either way, and no matter who it's coming from.

I like you vicfurth, partially because you often are one of the reasonable Christian voices here. Your faith deserves better then to be represented by the likes of nuordr.

That being said...no. Tolerance is often a two way street, but not always. Again, would you expect a black man to respect the opinions of a Klansman? I should hope not. So why should I, or any other member of the LGBT community, respect what a bigot like nuordr has to say about us?

I too believe in G-d, the same G-d you do. And I believe that he put all of us here to co-exist and work to make the world a better place. That doesn't happen if we give hateful people like nuordr and OldRamsFan their time in the sun. Like the Klan, like the Nazi Party, like countless groups before them dedicated to hate and bigotry, they need to be shoved aside and their opinions recognized as the hurtful garbage they are.

[IceCap]

I sincerely hope that people like Nuodr end up having gay children, or find out that whoever they love most in the world is gay, and find out how silly their beliefs are. Those "beliefs" are built on FEAR and nothing else.

Frankly Nuodr, this world would be a better place for everyone if you and those who share your beliefs were not a part of it. You have no idea how you and people like you hurt and divide people, and quite frankly I find a little pity in side me for you, since you live in so much fear. I think it's great that because of people like Michael Sam and others, we're getting to a point where within a few generations, people who's views are like yours will have mostly died off, and your kids may be a little more enlightened than their parents and grandparents.

You do your entire religion a disservice when you post thigns like you do here, because there are plenty of christians who don't have as much fear and hate in them, but unfortunately people like you cast a negative light on everyone. I live in a very diverse part of the city, and do a ton of volunteer work with inner-city high school kids. I see the challenges that they face every day, most of which people like you could never fathom. It's a shame that because of people like you, in addition to dealing with the things that they deal with, 1 in 10 of them also feels the need to hide who they are because of the backlash they'll get from their "christian brothers".

It's sad that none of this message board debating matters, nothing that is shown on the news matters, no argument that any reasonable person can put forward will matter, and the only way to change opinions like yours is to wait for you and your kind to die off.

Double post, but I wanted to throw a POTD nomination Vet's way

[Sport]

Back on topic, I do wish Michael the best of luck in the NFL. He is a good player. If he were on my team, I'd be fine with that despite us having different beliefs. As long as he would be able to help my team win games.

This post has the right sentiment and you mean well, but it's not his belief. It's your belief against his innate nature. You disagreeing with it would be like you disagreeing with his skin color.

[LAWeaver]

Back on topic, I do wish Michael the best of luck in the NFL. He is a good player. If he were on my team, I'd be fine with that despite us having different beliefs. As long as he would be able to help my team win games.

This post has the right sentiment and you mean well, but it's not his belief . It's your belief against his innate nature. You disagreeing with it would be like you disagreeing with his skin color.

Sorry. Just used the wrong word, I guess.

[IceCap]

And frankly, I think the "religion" excuse is just that (an excuse) 90% of the time. A lame excuse used by people that don't want to truly address their own fears and insecurities (and hatred, which I feel is rooted in the aforementioned fears and insecurities).

Exactly. We all know Rob Ford, the coked up alcoholic mayor of Toronto, right? Well he recently outed himself as a homophobe. Toronto is, along with many other cities across Canada, raising the rainbow flag at city hall as a sign of protest against Russia's recent string of homophobic legislation. Rob Ford and his brother Doug (who is a city councilman) both tried to have the flag removed, to no avail. I'm sure, if really pressed on the issue, both would inevitably fall back to the "it's against our Christian upbringing" excuse. Well does Rob Ford strike you as the religious type? He's a homophobe because he finds homosexuality gross. That's the root of it, really. It's a personal problem his small mind has to overcome. Not one imposed on him by faith, because I doubt the man's darkened a church's doorstep in 20 years.

[vicfurth]

Is it dramatic to point out what someone else said?

Again, let me be Christian voice of reason. I'm against bigotry, period. My religion, at its root, is against bigotry. My God, that everyone tries so damned hard to paint as evil, is loving and fully 100% against bigotry.

That road goes two ways, though. To preach tolerance while hoping for others to die is, inherently, a bigoted mindset. What I'm striving to do is keep it in perspective. It's wrong either way, and no matter who it's coming from.

I like you vicfurth, partially because you often are one of the reasonable Christian voices here. Your faith deserves better then to be represented by the likes of nuordr.

That being said...no. Tolerance is often a two way street, but not always. Again, would you expect a black man to respect the opinions of a Klansman? I should hope not. So why should I, or any other member of the LGBT community, respect what a bigot like nuordr has to say about us?

I too believe in G-d, the same G-d you do. And I believe that he put all of us here to co-exist and work to make the world a better place. That doesn't happen if we give hateful people like nuordr and OldRamsFan their time in the sun. Like the Klan, like the Nazi Party, like countless groups before them dedicated to hate and bigotry, they need to be shoved aside and their opinions recognized as the hurtful garbage they are.

I understand where you're coming from. My point is that saying a Christian should die is as bad as if I said "I hate you" because someone is gay. Both statements are rooted in hating the other, valid reasons or not.

We can all agree to disagree and still like each other at the end of the day. That was my point in saying tolerance is two-way.