Mizzou's Michael Sam comes out

[Gothamite]

Look. I'm not bashing your religion. I'm bashing your closed minded homophobia. I've met Christians who don't use their religion as an excuse to be hateful. That's the worst thing about you couching your opinions in Christian rhetoric. It's doing a disservice to a faith that millions of tolerant, loving individuals belong to.

Indeed, we have them in this very thread.

[infrared41]

Other things "the Bible disapproves of..."

[McCall]

Ok just to be clear to, well everyone, G-d and/or Jesus did NOT write the Bible. It was a collection of observations and perceived teachings written secondhand, observations that could've been misinterpreted. Now I'm not well-versed in biblical studies. I was raised Catholic and still consider myself so, but it was mostly because my Mom made us go. I now basically have my own personal faith within Catholicism. The parts that claim homosexuality as sin, which I admit I haven't actually read, I choose to believe are simply misquoted to Jesus or something to that effect, or were maybe simply that particular contributor's own beliefs, because I ultimately believe he preached love and respect for all. Now those who believe them as actual teachings, I personally believe you're wrong and encourage you to look deeper and maybe start to rethink how those portions work within his ultimate teachings the very basis of Christianity. If you choose not to, that's your personal choice and I'm not going to try and force you into it. But please do understand how it can be perceived as judgement of others for simply being themselves and maybe, for the sake of peace around here, think twice before posting them in these threads. There's been multiple ones on this subject and by now we're all aware of people's views and where we all stand on the subject in regards to our opinions. And I encourage those who disagree with those opinions to simply make educational points like some have, namely a post McCarthy made with valid points about why this is important, rather than simply through intimidation. You're not gonna change their beliefs by calling them bigots and trying to force them into your beliefs. It doesn't work. Otherwise try to take their belief in letting everyone live their lives (even though they believe it's a sin) and start a monologue on why letting them live their lives ultimately may lead them to see them as just people like everyone else and maybe then we'll start seeing some positive changes. But it won't happen overnight.

Now I can't remember all I wrote. I'm in phone and have been sick and haven't left my apartment since Friday afternoon so my head's all over the place. But ultimately just think about this; the only difference between straight and gay is that straight means attracted to the same sex and gay means attracted to the opposite sex. Nothing more, nothing less. Any other differences between two people are based off that individual persons own personality. You could have almost an identical personallity, similarities, beliefs and interests as someone with the only difference being who you are attracted to.

Ok I think I may be done. I don't know. My head feels like it's closing in and I'm losing concentration so... farewell.

[NCCoachArete]

I'm Christian/Catholic and I look at it this way...it doesn't matter if it is a sin because our job is to build up and support. Our job isn't to judge, I believe that is God's job.

How can daddy keep it to himself when a mic is in his face.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Michael Sam's dad isn't taking too kindly to the news. Apparently his parents just found out last week

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10439397/father-michael-sam-struggling-news-son-gay

[Chicageaux]

People can always change!

Nuorder, you have to realize where people might find that statement offensive and take issue with it. The fact is, people can't change. In that sense are you saying that tomorrow you might wake up and be homosexual? The fact is it's part of who they are just like you're heterosexual. They're no different from you and me except they look at different porn . Unfortunately, there's people in society who don't understand that and they make people ashamed for not "changing," but thankfully it's changing.

As Gothamite just pointed out and by some of the comments from the other side here, there is still a disconnect and people don't understand. Hell, I'm understanding but as understanding and accepting as I am, I will never understand what a gay person has gone through and I don't want to act I'm in their shoes. But the more accepting we are, the easier it becomes for them and that's the most important thing.People can always change!

Don't you think I may take it offensive on how people have been bashing religion? If your gonna be upset about what I say, then don't be shocked when you upset people that don't feel the way you do. I mean come on, I have been told that I should die and make the world a better place (if that is not a hate statement, I don't know what is). But to put context to my words, here is another event that occured in my life and there are a few more that may blow your socks off.

Believe it or not folks, I have a few gay friends (they respect my views and I respect theirs) and one of them told me several years ago that he could make the straightest man in the world be gay for one night? Everytime he would say it, I would laugh it off, but that all changed when I busted him with one of my closest friends one night. I was utterly shocked and in disbelief as my friend was a lady's man and he was constantly hooking up with several different women every week in our heyday. But guess what, he was not gay (he called it an experiment) and as of today he has been married for 11 years and has three beautiful children with his wife.

People are not bashing your religion as much as they're disagreeing with your logic. I'm a fellow christian. Whatever relationship you have with God is your business. However, you can't expect to come into a thread about a player that has come out and say that homosexuality is bad and not expect to catch some grief over it. You're basically telling some people that their way of life is shameful yet you expect people not to attack your religion when you're saying that's the main reason why you're against it.

Nuordr, are you familiar with Shirley Phelps? She's one of the leaders over at Westboro Baptist Church. I'm sure you've heard about them protesting outside soldiers' funerals, concerts, and other events. She claims their reasoning for doing so is because it's the Lord's work. The Lord wanted those soldiers to die. She claims that God hates America because we are a nation of vile disgusting pigs and when she's asked why she doesn't move somewhere else, she says that she's doing it because God has put her on this planet to spread his word. You know who else she hates? Homosexuals. I won't even repeat the disgusting things she says but as with everything else, she claims she's doing it "for the Lord." The thing is, religion isn't about hate, it's about love and it's about understanding that not everyone is the same. I believe if you're truly a religious person, the first person you worry about is yourself and you shut your mouth about what you don't understand because there's only one person who has the right to judge people. The thing is, I will never push my beliefs on anyone else.

Unfortunately, it's people like Shirley Phelps who give all Christians a bad name because they fear what they don't understand and in doing so, they push their hate on everyone else. I'm not saying you're at the level of the Westboro Baptist Church but you can still be a man of faith and be understanding and compassionate of those around you. In fact, in doing so, you will find yourself even more spiritual. I also realize it's hard to shake a foundation that has been built over the years and if you're not willing to see it through the eyes of the other spectrum, then as the old saying goes, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all."

[monkeypower]

I'm going to echo what I said in the Phil Robertson thread:

I am a Catholic who has nothing wrong with any LGBT people. I'm never going to hate or dislike a person strictly because of their orientation.

Like what McCall said, the Bible is all second-hand stories and as a Catholic, we're (or at least I was) taught not to take all of the Bible literally and it's OK to challenge your beliefs.

That's what I feel is the problem with some of the religious people here on these boards and in real life, is that they don't challenge their beliefs or they take the Bible as it is. Maybe that's the way some of these branches of Christianity teach or maybe it's just what the person beliefs, I don't know.

So if you're straight, be straight and if you're gay, be gay.

[dbadefense1990]

I'm Christian/Catholic and I look at it this way...it doesn't matter if it is a sin because our job is to build up and support. Our job isn't to judge, I believe that is God's job.

The problem is that neo-Christian radical leaders (Westboro Baptist, Hispanics, Bible Belt Southeast U.S., etc) tend to believe that God went all Joan-of-Arc on them, and told those leaders to harass, torture, humiliate and make it as painful as possible for homosexual people to live freely in this world, and to pass these insights of hate to their parishioners.

[dbadefense1990]

Look. I'm not bashing your religion. I'm bashing your closed minded homophobia. I've met Christians who don't use their religion as an excuse to be hateful. That's the worst thing about you couching your opinions in Christian rhetoric. It's doing a disservice to a faith that millions of tolerant, loving individuals belong to.

Indeed, we have them in this very thread.

If I were to say that Jason Collins doesn't deserve to be in the NBA, it'd be because he is a 35-year old journeyman scrub throughout his career who probably doesn't have anything left in the tank to give any team, not because "I'm worried what he'd do to my favorite team's players in the locker room shower."

[IceCap]

*sighs*

Look, I've repeated my views on the Bible plenty of times here. I understand the points Vet and illawauk are trying to make but in light of their comments I feel the need to point out that being a religious person in a homosexual relationship doesn't make one a self-hating lunatic on the verge of killing themselves. It's tragic that such cases do exist, but the causes of them are a bit more complex then "they're religious and they're attracted to guys."

[NCCoachArete]

The old testament is stories that may or may not have been all based parables to teach lessons. I believe the New Testament has a bit more "proof" and was put in place to take the place of some of the old testament teachings.

[BBTV]

*sighs*

Look, I've repeated my views on the Bible plenty of times here. I understand the points Vet and illawauk are trying to make but in light of their comments I feel the need to point out that being a religious person in a homosexual relationship doesn't make one a self-hating lunatic on the verge of killing themselves. It's tragic that such cases do exist, but the causes of them are a bit more complex then "they're religious and they're attracted to guys."

I wasn't implying that at all, just stating that that it does exist, because up until I encountered it the very notion would have blown my mind. Based on people I knew and just politics / religion in general I had incorrectly assumed that members of the LGBT community would have overwhelmingly leaned left politically and against religion. As has been stated in this thread numerous times, one can consider one's self religious while still possessing independent thought and being able to interpret things his or her own way, or call BS where BS needs to be called.

[IceCap]

*sighs*

Look, I've repeated my views on the Bible plenty of times here. I understand the points Vet and illawauk are trying to make but in light of their comments I feel the need to point out that being a religious person in a homosexual relationship doesn't make one a self-hating lunatic on the verge of killing themselves. It's tragic that such cases do exist, but the causes of them are a bit more complex then "they're religious and they're attracted to guys."

I wasn't implying that at all, just stating that that it does exist, because up until I encountered it the very notion would have blown my mind. Based on people I knew and just politics / religion in general I had incorrectly assumed that members of the LGBT community would have overwhelmingly leaned left politically and against religion. As has been stated in this thread numerous times, one can consider one's self religious while still possessing independent thought and being able to interpret things his or her own way, or call BS where BS needs to be called.

Oh definitely. Sorry if I came across as overly harsh, it's just a gear grinder of mine.

Most members of the LGBT community do lean left, but that's out of necessity in some cases. I have a friend in the States who's gay, and who has said he'd vote Republican if that party would distance itself from the religious right. And that totally makes sense. Why would who you're attracted to sexually effect what your thoughts are on, say, tax policy? In a lot of ways it also speaks poorly of some right wing parties. Not just in terms of promoting bigotry, but by alienating a potential base of support in the name of clinging to outdated modes of thought.

A person's sexuality doesn't define them, yet the expectation is that if you're gay or bi or transgendered you must think a certain way about issues that in no way relate to who you love.

[Jimmy!]

I'm Christian/Catholic and I look at it this way...it doesn't matter if it is a sin because our job is to build up and support. Our job isn't to judge, I believe that is God's job.

The problem is that neo-Christian radical leaders (Westboro Baptist, Hispanics, Bible Belt Southeast U.S., etc) tend to believe that God went all Joan-of-Arc on them, and told those leaders to harass, torture, humiliate and make it as painful as possible for homosexual people to live freely in this world, and to pass these insights of hate to their parishioners.

Those kinds of people are not Christians. To call them such is a waste of bandwidth.

[IceCap]

I liked the term "Christianists" to describe such people, as it echoed the term "Islamists" and filled a niche in the lexicon. Shame it never quite caught on.

[goalieboy82]

good for sam for coming out. the problem is that some people (not my views since i dont care if people are gay) if he doesn't do well in the nfl, people are going to say gays are not good in football. if he was a good player and did a good job in the nfl, people with those views would think otherwise about what they think.

[Kevin W.]

I'm Christian/Catholic and I look at it this way...it doesn't matter if it is a sin because our job is to build up and support. Our job isn't to judge, I believe that is God's job.

The problem is that neo-Christian radical leaders (Westboro Baptist, Hispanics, Bible Belt Southeast U.S., etc) tend to believe that God went all Joan-of-Arc on them, and told those leaders to harass, torture, humiliate and make it as painful as possible for homosexual people to live freely in this world, and to pass these insights of hate to their parishioners.

Is it really necessary to put an entire racial group in with the other groups? Hispanic Christians are hardly monolithic and the implication of what you said is kind of racist.

Also, goalieboy's right. God knows that Jackie Robinson probably won over a lot of his critics by being a damn good ballplayer, so here's hoping that Sam can do the same thing.

[BlackBolt3]

I'm Christian/Catholic and I look at it this way...it doesn't matter if it is a sin because our job is to build up and support. Our job isn't to judge, I believe that is God's job.

The problem is that neo-Christian radical leaders (Westboro Baptist, Hispanics, Bible Belt Southeast U.S., etc) tend to believe that God went all Joan-of-Arc on them, and told those leaders to harass, torture, humiliate and make it as painful as possible for homosexual people to live freely in this world, and to pass these insights of hate to their parishioners.

I don't even know why I'm wasting my time responding to this. You know you're effectively, by throwing people(including me) under the bus like that, you're doing the exact thing you're condemning. Now, please respond, as you didn't in the Gear Grinder thread when I called you out before.

[sportstar1212]

I'm going to echo what I said in the Phil Robertson thread:

I am a Catholic who has nothing wrong with any LGBT people. I'm never going to hate or dislike a person strictly because of their orientation.

Like what McCall said, the Bible is all second-hand stories and as a Catholic, we're (or at least I was) taught not to take all of the Bible literally and it's OK to challenge your beliefs.

That's what I feel is the problem with some of the religious people here on these boards and in real life, is that they don't challenge their beliefs or they take the Bible as it is. Maybe that's the way some of these branches of Christianity teach or maybe it's just what the person beliefs, I don't know.

So if you're straight, be straight and if you're gay, be gay.

The problem is that some people are just ignorant and they use their faith as a cop-out for their ignorant beliefs. I'm a Catholic, and I have no problem with gay people since it's none of my business. We are taught to love and accept each other regardless of differences. Even the Pope came out and said "Who am I to judge?", so if you're so dead on following Catholic beliefs, then isn't that what you should be following?

[dbadefense1990]

I'm Christian/Catholic and I look at it this way...it doesn't matter if it is a sin because our job is to build up and support. Our job isn't to judge, I believe that is God's job.

The problem is that neo-Christian radical leaders (Westboro Baptist, Hispanics, Bible Belt Southeast U.S., etc) tend to believe that God went all Joan-of-Arc on them, and told those leaders to harass, torture, humiliate and make it as painful as possible for homosexual people to live freely in this world, and to pass these insights of hate to their parishioners.

I don't even know why I'm wasting my time responding to this. You know you're effectively, by throwing people(including me) under the bus like that, you're doing the exact thing you're condemning. Now, please respond, as you didn't in the Gear Grinder thread when I called you out before.

Personal experience with my friend's parents (friends were 1st-gen Latino-Americans while parents were true immigrants) would say otherwise. The way I see religion being preached by immigrants, especially in such a heavily-concentrated area such as Southern California, make me tend to believe that those parents are in-root with opposing any rights for gays because of the whole "marriage is between a man and woman and Jesus will hate you if you think otherwise" thing. At least 1st-gen Latinos and beyond are embracing gays and lean towards religious tolerance for all, but not necessarily their parents.

As for the Southeast, I don't know that much information on them, but they tend to hold on to more traditional religious identities than, say, someone from the west coast or New England.

Now the Westboro Baptists...