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NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

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The average Sounders-jersey-wearing-gluten-allergic-passive-aggressive-liberal Seattlites (who burned down or otherwise drove out every decent burger joint in the area with torches and pitchforks whilst I was away getting educated in Virginia) wouldn't support an NHL team.

I worry about this too. There's a certain strain of liberals who absolutely detest hockey and all that it supposedly "stands for." I'm not saying anything so broad as "liberals hate hockey," because that's stupid. They don't. If anything, hockey is most popular in places where people tend to be liberal, or moderate, or not conservative. But those freakin' bobos who think they're too sophisticated for the supposed barbarism of hockey, man, I don't know what you're supposed to do about them. Football is fine, and basketball is fine, and even baseball is okay, but God forbid a white guy draws hard physical contact with another white guy. You'll choke on your fair trade coffee at the sight of it all.

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There's a certain strain of liberals who absolutely detest hockey and all that it supposedly "stands for."

Not buying this. Not in any significant number.

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There's a certain strain of liberals who absolutely detest hockey and all that it supposedly "stands for."

Prove it.

Can't prove this guy's a liberal, but he's from California so there's a good chance:

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2008/12/9/687886/i-admittedly-don-t-follow

He doesn't follow hockey, but thinks it's barbaric and gets a pass for it because it's primarily white guys playing it.

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Yeah, uh, the NHL gets a free pass compared to the NBA? Get back to me when someone pulls an Artest in the NHL.

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In fairness, it's usually meathead hockey fans who precipitate everything by saying dumb crap like "basketball? more like African ping pong!" (I HAVE READ THIS I SWEAR TO GOD) or "it's alls just a bunch a thugs in dat thug league!" which causes the basketball fans (who are almost always white, but almost never college fans) to recoil and come back with accusations of whitetrashness, racism, and the whole thing about being aghast over fighting.

Trust me, it's a thing. DDR's in St. Louis now, but I'm sure he can vouch for the fact that there's now a Bulls-Blackhawks dualism parallel to Cubs-Sox (though the battle lines aren't really the same). I hate it, personally, because I really like both teams (well, I really like one and unhealthily agonize over the other). There's this fallacy that if you're a hockey fan, you have to hate basketball and basketball fans, and that basketball fans have to dismiss hockey as bloodsport for white people who are too uncultured to appreciate a real sport, the usually-unspoken implication being that no real sport can be thoroughly dominated by Caucasians. I'm not buying it for a minute, but others are, which is a shame.

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There's a certain strain of liberals who absolutely detest hockey and all that it supposedly "stands for."

Not buying this. Not in any significant number.

I don't think that ad is too far off. What many of us would (perhaps unfairly) consider to be a "hard core liberal" might detest professional sports in general, or at the very least, consider ice hockey (in most of America) to be a sport played by senator's sons (basically a sport played by the the silver-spoon fed privileged kids, who tend to come from conservative families.)

Around here, the Flyers are big pretty much everywhere, but if I had to paint with a broad brush, I'd say that the archetypal Flyers fan is your average Havertownian (for the non-locals, it's a very conservative area and most of the super "right wing" stereotypes hold up pretty well there.)

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Yeah, uh, the NHL gets a free pass compared to the NBA? Get back to me when someone pulls an Artest in the NHL.

Uhh, the NHL invented the "Artest"...

EDIT: DAMN YOU LIGHTS OUT!!! :D

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That was 1980 it was a wild time and he went after Ranger fans so its ok :grin:

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There's a certain strain of liberals who absolutely detest hockey and all that it supposedly "stands for."

Not buying this. Not in any significant number.

I don't think that ad is too far off. What many of us would (perhaps unfairly) consider to be a "hard core liberal" might detest professional sports in general, or at the very least, consider ice hockey (in most of America) to be a sport played by senator's sons (basically a sport played by the the silver-spoon fed privileged kids, who tend to come from conservative families.)

you guys are generalizing at cross-purposes.

He says the hard-core liberal considers himself too sophisticated for the barbarism of hockey. You say the hard-core liberal looks down on hockey as the sport of the rich and privileged. Those don't exactly go hand-in-hand.

This smacks of the same generalizing we see here about "alla you guys love the retro and hate everything modern."

You can find one jerk who'll agree with any bizarre position (it is the interwebs, after all). But in any meaningful number?

I admit that hockey fans have a blue-collar stereotype. But even if true, "blue-collar" doesn't necessarily mean "conservative".

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I don't think it's about politics so much as consumption patterns. Hockey-haters generally are liberal, but it's not because they're liberal, if that makes sense.

I don't get the blue-collar meathead stereotype when most hockey fans I know are either affluent white-collar types, physically inept nerdlingers, or both.

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Maybe it's because I come from a state where the epicenter of hockey culture is the self-proclaimed "Berkeley of the Midwest," but this "liberals hate hockey" thing is completely foreign to me too. Of all the things you'd expect liberals to critique about pro sports in general, it would seems a bit silly for them to single out hockey.

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I said "it's not that liberals hate hockey" right at the top of the page, though. It's just a certain type of content consumer who has serious objections to the culture of hockey, especially vis-a-vis basketball and soccer.

It's weird how hockey inspires equal parts unwavering adoration and bitter hatred. It's such a simple game. You put the play implement into a goal at either end of a rectangle. It doesn't have to be anything bigger than what it is. I enjoy hockey games immensely without giving the slightest consideration to race relations in America.

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Yeah, uh, the NHL gets a free pass compared to the NBA? Get back to me when someone pulls an Artest in the NHL.

We can also go the other way...

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I said "it's not that liberals hate hockey" right at the top of the page, though. It's just a certain type of content consumer who has serious objections to the culture of hockey, especially vis-a-vis basketball and soccer.

I'm still it buying it.

Sure, there may be a couple. But in any meaningful number? I doubt it.

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Maybe it's because I come from a state where the epicenter of hockey culture is the self-proclaimed "Berkeley of the Midwest," but this "liberals hate hockey" thing is completely foreign to me too. Of all the things you'd expect liberals to critique about pro sports in general, it would seems a bit silly for them to single out hockey.

I should have been more clear in my screed. I'm left of center myself - hell, my wife framed the front page when Obama was elected and we proudly have it on display on the wall in our living room.

But there's liberal, and then there's Seattle liberal, which has fully embraced the Sounders. It has very little to do with politics, really (maybe you have to live here a while to fully understand). They are the people who insist on bringing their obnoxious dogs to the bars, people who proudly tell you they don't support organized sports outside of soccer (and some of them even insist on calling it football). Seattle liberals are notoriously passive-aggressive and self-absorbed. (for the curious, I'm sure you can find the "ask a Seattle Liberal" column from our alt. newspaper somewhere online). It is the same qualities which have ensured that my favorite pizza restaurant now offers a gluten-free menu (have you tasted gluten-free pizza? It tastes like sadness boiled in the tears of unhappy children). It is these qualities which would ensure a lack of support for the NHL in Seattle, rather than political ones.

Don't get me wrong - I love Seattle. I don't think I can live happily in any other city on earth. I've spent 26 of my 34 years living here. I can live with the Seattle liberals. But I don't think the NHL can.

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Maybe it's because I come from a state where the epicenter of hockey culture is the self-proclaimed "Berkeley of the Midwest," but this "liberals hate hockey" thing is completely foreign to me too. Of all the things you'd expect liberals to critique about pro sports in general, it would seems a bit silly for them to single out hockey.

I should have been more clear in my screed. I'm left of center myself - hell, my wife framed the front page when Obama was elected and we proudly have it on display on the wall in our living room.

But there's liberal, and then there's Seattle liberal, which has fully embraced the Sounders. It has very little to do with politics, really (maybe you have to live here a while to fully understand). They are the people who insist on bringing their obnoxious dogs to the bars, people who proudly tell you they don't support organized sports outside of soccer (and some of them even insist on calling it football). Seattle liberals are notoriously passive-aggressive and self-absorbed. (for the curious, I'm sure you can find the "ask a Seattle Liberal" column from our alt. newspaper somewhere online). It is the same qualities which have ensured that my favorite pizza restaurant now offers a gluten-free menu (have you tasted gluten-free pizza? It tastes like sadness boiled in the tears of unhappy children). It is these qualities which would ensure a lack of support for the NHL in Seattle, rather than political ones.

Don't get me wrong - I love Seattle. I don't think I can live happily in any other city on earth. I've spent 26 of my 34 years living here. I can live with the Seattle liberals. But I don't think the NHL can.

those are just political trolls. like the political trolls that follow that radio nut out in San Fran that makes tank look like a far left liberal.

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We call those "Seattle liberals" "crunchy liberals" back in Colorado, and yes, they can be annoying. On the same note, though, every group of people can be annoying. But the big thing is that no number of crunchy liberals could actually kill a sports team. What kills sports teams is always one of two things: bad ownership or a lack of support. Unfortunately, for the NHL, I think Seattle has both of those things in spades. That anyone would even consider putting an NHL arena in Bellevue shows the first, and between the Thunderbirds and the SuperSonics, we can get a picture of the second.

The snag with Seattle is the same as the snag in Arizona: The people who would support hockey there already have their hockey hearts taken and, like most people, they don't want to drive an hour to the ass-end of town for a hockey game. Generally, you live in a city so that you don't have to leave the city. As a few people pointed out, Bellevue is NOT Seattle and the only way out there is a minimum 20-minute drive across a lake. And speaking to the "hockey hearts of Seattle," the people that care about hockey there either belong to the Canucks or to the team from whatever city from which they're transplanted (there are A LOT of transplants in Seattle).

Oh, and a gluten-free option has nothing to do with politics. Yes, it can taste like the sadness of a thousand kittens, but if it keeps your insides inside you, it's worth it.

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I think it's really the bohemian bourgeoisie we're talking about here, not honest-to-goodness liberals per se. I don't think there are ever enough of them to kill a sports team, but if there's any sport and any place where there are enough of them to at least send it reeling a bit, it would probably have to be hockey in Seattle proper. For all the howling about how no one in the city wants to schlep out to places like Bellevue or Renton, I think that might be where a hockey team has to be if it's going to be near middle-class suburbanites with disposable income who don't have deep-seated issues with the idea of intense white sports and how it affects the perception of their consumption patterns. I know Cascadia is different from the rest of the country, but I still think people away from the heart of the city might be just a little more whitebread, just enough to make hockey work there.

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