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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

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Toronto is an NFL town, not a Bills town. They sold us ridiculous ticket pricing for Bills' home games. Try again.

Actually, what Toronto fans want is to pay & root for our own team. We're the 4th largest market on the continent; if we were a Bills region, they'd not have as many financial challenges.

You sure about that?

No one is sure what #4 is. I've seen Philadelphia, Toronto, the Bay Area, Washington-Baltimore, Houston, and I think Boston. I find it best to smile and nod.

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Toronto is an NFL town, not a Bills town. They sold us ridiculous ticket pricing for Bills' home games. Try again.

Actually, what Toronto fans want is to pay & root for our own team. We're the 4th largest market on the continent; if we were a Bills region, they'd not have as many financial challenges.

You sure about that?

No one is sure what #4 is. I've seen Philadelphia, Toronto, the Bay Area, Washington-Baltimore, Houston, and I think Boston. I find it best to smile and nod.

Well for North America, you have to factor in Mexico too.

My "research" on metro areas (consisting of a 5-second Wikipedia search) shows:

1 Mexico City 21,163,226 2010 Mexico

2 New York 19,069,796 2010 United States

3 Los Angeles 12,828,837 2010 United States

4 Chicago 9,461,105 2010 United States

5 Dallas-Fort Worth 6,426,214 2010 United States

6 Philadelphia 5,965,343 2010 United States

7 Houston 5,920,416 2010 United States

8 Toronto 5,583,064[1] 2011 Canada

9 Washington 5,582,170 2010 United States

10 Miami 5,564,635 2010 United States

Now I have no idea how that translates in to TV Market size, but I don't think that even switching this to "CSMA" would change it much. Philadelphia might jump over Dallas and Toronto could jump a notch too.

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And in time, Cleveland generations will forget or ignore that the "original Browns" left, and Art Modell will become just a footnote in history. Infrared or fans prior to 1995 might hate Modell when they're 105 years old, but by then there will be 80 year-olds who only know of the current franchise.

Actually, I've never blamed Art Modell for the loss of the Browns - at least not entirely.

I didn't know your position, but I was speaking more generally. Among people your age, I'm sure a huge portion blames Modell and still hates him to this day. But like I said, in 60 or 70 years, the loss of the original Browns will be just a trivia question.You can say now that these Browns are technically not the original Browns, but in time, it won't matter and nobody will actually view it that way. The only pain Browns fans will feel will be of continued failure (if they do keep failing).

I know. I was just sharing my opinion of Art Modell.

Anyway, I was in Cleveland for a game against the Houston Oilers the weekend the move to Baltimore was announced. Thought I'd share a picture from that weekend. I'm the dorky looking guy in the middle wearing a Browns jacket.

623268b4-065c-4d93-9603-1b08efd7a329.jpg

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Lots of chatter on the interwebs about the Raiders looking into San Antonio. I know this was rumored last year, but with San Diego holding the cards for second LA franchise. This is interesting.

Does Davis move for 2016?

Does he wait to see what Spanos does or just move to San Antonio?

Does Spano move in 2016 to LA? Does he wait his full year?

Lots of questions ...

Personally, I think Spanos takes that year and tries to force the hand of Davis. I think he wants him to relocate elsewhere now so he can either make the move to LA or stay in SD without the threat of having a second franchise move in with the Rams.

Ideally, I'd like to Davis stay in Oakland, but I don't think that's going to happen. So if he moves to Texas that will be benefical for the Chargers to stay in San Diego and protect their "interests" and 25% business in the LA market.

Anyways -- I think San Antonio is probably the best market for the Raiders outside of LA to relocate. Of course there's also St. Louis, Las Vegas, Portland, Toronto, Orlando and Omaha that I could see supporting a team.

What's everyone's thoughts?

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Lots of chatter on the interwebs about the Raiders looking into San Antonio. I know this was rumored last year, but with San Diego holding the cards for second LA franchise. This is interesting.

Does Davis move for 2016?

Does he wait to see what Spanos does or just move to San Antonio?

Does Spano move in 2016 to LA? Does he wait his full year?

Lots of questions ...

Personally, I think Spanos takes that year and tries to force the hand of Davis. I think he wants him to relocate elsewhere now so he can either make the move to LA or stay in SD without the threat of having a second franchise move in with the Rams.

Ideally, I'd like to Davis stay in Oakland, but I don't think that's going to happen. So if he moves to Texas that will be benefical for the Chargers to stay in San Diego and protect their "interests" and 25% business in the LA market.

Anyways -- I think San Antonio is probably the best market for the Raiders outside of LA to relocate. Of course there's also St. Louis, Las Vegas, Portland, Toronto, Orlando and Omaha that I could see supporting a team.

What's everyone's thoughts?

Spanos' plan is not to force Davis elsewhere and then stay in SD so there won't be a second team in LA. There will be a second team in LA. If Davis were to move to STL (as opposed to some of the absurd cities on your list) then the league would get some other team to go to LA or expand.

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Maybe some Torontonians can elaborate, but I thought the consensus on the boards was that an NFL stadium wasn't gonna happen in the GTA. Not anytime soon, at least.

No one here will, rightfully so, pay for such a stadium with public monies. Unless the Olympics landed on our heads, which we also said no to bidding.

As for the NFL, I don't think we could properly support a franchise. I believe it takes a near year-round commitment to an NFL franchise by its fans, & we're way too busy with the Leafs, Jays, & Raptors, + TFC. The NFL team would have a very tough time cracking that top 3, if ever.

As for a second NHL team if you're wondering, no such would be playing in Toronto proper. It would be one of Markham, Vaughan, Mississauga, in a new building that we also said no to here in Markham btw.

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Toronto is an NFL town, not a Bills town. They sold us ridiculous ticket pricing for Bills' home games. Try again.

Actually, what Toronto fans want is to pay & root for our own team. We're the 4th largest market on the continent; if we were a Bills region, they'd not have as many financial challenges.

You sure about that?

No one is sure what #4 is. I've seen Philadelphia, Toronto, the Bay Area, Washington-Baltimore, Houston, and I think Boston. I find it best to smile and nod.

Depends on what metric you're using, I guess. But I don't know what you'd have to look at for Toronto to be as high as 4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropolitan_areas_by_population

Mexico City, New York, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Philadelphia, Houston. All of which appear to have a greater population than the GTA.

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I'd love to see the Raiders make a move to the Sacramento area, but I'm also not stupid enough to think that would ever be a possibility.

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I believe it takes a near year-round commitment to an NFL franchise by its fans, & we're way too busy with the Leafs, Jays, & Raptors, + TFC. The NFL team would have a very tough time cracking that top 3, if ever.

Lolwut? It's a 4-5 month, or literally 16-day commitment. It takes nothing to follow football. They only play 16 regular season games, all but one will be on a Sunday (barring MNF), and you have an entire week in between to pay no attention to it. I mean, sure, for the people who do masturbatory crap like fantasy football, it's a 9-month thing, but there's almost no commitment in watching 15 weekend games. And even if you miss a game, you can read an article about it the next day. You don't need an entire week worth of crap that football writers put out to justify their continued employment. Baseball is hardest to follow because it's nearly every day for six months. Basketball and hockey are considerably easier - 2-3x per week for that same period. Football is easy, and that's a big part of the reason why it's so popular.

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I'd love to see the Raiders make a move to the Sacramento area, but I'm also not stupid enough to think that would ever be a possibility.

I personally like that option. It would give the Raiders a market of their own while not completely distancing themselves from the Bay Area.

On a related note, since we're talking about primarily NBA cities, I don't see it happening for quite some time (you know, finding and building a stadium and all that), but Portland wouldn't be a bad landing spot for the Raiders, either. That also keeps them on the West Coast.

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Lots of chatter on the interwebs about the Raiders looking into San Antonio. I know this was rumored last year, but with San Diego holding the cards for second LA franchise. This is interesting.

Does Davis move for 2016?

Does he wait to see what Spanos does or just move to San Antonio?

Does Spano move in 2016 to LA? Does he wait his full year?

Lots of questions ...

Personally, I think Spanos takes that year and tries to force the hand of Davis. I think he wants him to relocate elsewhere now so he can either make the move to LA or stay in SD without the threat of having a second franchise move in with the Rams.

Ideally, I'd like to Davis stay in Oakland, but I don't think that's going to happen. So if he moves to Texas that will be benefical for the Chargers to stay in San Diego and protect their "interests" and 25% business in the LA market.

Anyways -- I think San Antonio is probably the best market for the Raiders outside of LA to relocate. Of course there's also St. Louis, Las Vegas, Portland, Toronto, Orlando and Omaha that I could see supporting a team.

What's everyone's thoughts?

Spanos' plan is not to force Davis elsewhere and then stay in SD so there won't be a second team in LA. There will be a second team in LA. If Davis were to move to STL (as opposed to some of the absurd cities on your list) then the league would get some other team to go to LA or expand.

Yeah, I see your point ... I guess more than what Spanos does I am interested to see what happens with the Raiders. I wouldn't be surprised to see them move to San Antonio this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did a one or two year lease at Levi's Stadium. I don't see that as a long term solution -- but, it could force the hand of Oakland to get something going with a new stadium.

But, if they're leaving Oakland -- it's San Antonio or San Diego in my opinion.

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I'd love to see the Raiders make a move to the Sacramento area, but I'm also not stupid enough to think that would ever be a possibility.

I personally like that option. It would give the Raiders a market of their own while not completely distancing themselves from the Bay Area.

On a related note, since we're talking about primarily NBA cities, I don't see it happening for quite some time (you know, finding and building a stadium and all that), but Portland wouldn't be a bad landing spot for the Raiders, either. That also keeps them on the West Coast.

It'll never happen for so many reasons, a short list of which includes: No local interest in financing a stadium, no physical location to put an NFL stadium, nowhere near enough corporate sponsors to support such a franchise.

Not to be Capt. Negative, but about the only additional pro league Portland could absorb at this point is the NHL, entirely because of Moda Center's utility and Paul Allen's somewhat passive interest in the league.

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I'd love to see the Raiders make a move to the Sacramento area, but I'm also not stupid enough to think that would ever be a possibility.

I personally like that option. It would give the Raiders a market of their own while not completely distancing themselves from the Bay Area.

On a related note, since we're talking about primarily NBA cities, I don't see it happening for quite some time (you know, finding and building a stadium and all that), but Portland wouldn't be a bad landing spot for the Raiders, either. That also keeps them on the West Coast.

It'll never happen for so many reasons, a short list of which includes: No local interest in financing a stadium, no physical location to put an NFL stadium, nowhere near enough corporate sponsors to support such a franchise.

Not to be Capt. Negative, but about the only additional pro league Portland could absorb at this point is the NHL, entirely because of Moda Center's utility and Paul Allen's somewhat passive interest in the league.

Change in emphasis mine. ;)

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Portland went all in on soccer. To the point where they told their baseball team to take a hike.

And they seem pretty happy with that decision.

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I want to bring up one very minor detail to all those calling for Kroenke's head.

The Trans World/Edward Jones Dome broke ground in July 1992. The move was approved after Georgia's lawsuit threat in March 1995. You really can't make any argument that the city's going to be keep making payments on a vacant albatross solely due to Kroenke's hardline negotiating when the building was being made with or without the Rams moving to town and when the Rams made the move largely due to a contract clause that the city couldn't or wouldn't live up to. And, has been said previously, the city knew the out clause was coming, did nothing about it, and resorted to a last minute farce of a proposal that circumvented public input and assumed funding sources that didn't exist.

Hell, look at this Time article from 2012. The writing was on the wall four years ago.

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I'd love to see the Raiders make a move to the Sacramento area, but I'm also not stupid enough to think that would ever be a possibility.

This is partly tongue in cheek and I'd have had a better chance at winning Powerball on Wednesday but how about the Raiders move to Stockton. Cheap land, roughly an hour drive for fans from both the East Bay and Sacramento and two hours or so from Fresno...and it's right in Spanos' backyard.

Realistically I see them in Oakland at least this season but if I were Davis I'd be trying to get a lease deal in Santa Clara.

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I'd love to see the Raiders make a move to the Sacramento area, but I'm also not stupid enough to think that would ever be a possibility.

This is partly tongue in cheek and I'd have had a better chance at winning Powerball on Wednesday but how about the Raiders move to Stockton. Cheap land, roughly an hour drive for fans from both the East Bay and Sacramento and two hours or so from Fresno...and it's right in Spanos' backyard.

Realistically I see them in Oakland at least this season but if I were Davis I'd be trying to get a lease deal in Santa Clara.

Yikes. That's possibly the only move they could make that would actually put them in an even MORE dangerous neighborhood than they're in now.

But, seeing the way they handled the Arena/Marina/Baseball stadium fiasco, I wouldn't put it past the suicidal maniacs who run that city to try and offer to fully subsidize something like that :wacko:

And, hey, they could kinda sorta come in by boat.

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Lots of chatter on the interwebs about the Raiders looking into San Antonio. I know this was rumored last year, but with San Diego holding the cards for second LA franchise. This is interesting.

Does Davis move for 2016?

Does he wait to see what Spanos does or just move to San Antonio?

Does Spano move in 2016 to LA? Does he wait his full year?

Lots of questions ...

Personally, I think Spanos takes that year and tries to force the hand of Davis. I think he wants him to relocate elsewhere now so he can either make the move to LA or stay in SD without the threat of having a second franchise move in with the Rams.

Ideally, I'd like to Davis stay in Oakland, but I don't think that's going to happen. So if he moves to Texas that will be benefical for the Chargers to stay in San Diego and protect their "interests" and 25% business in the LA market.

Anyways -- I think San Antonio is probably the best market for the Raiders outside of LA to relocate. Of course there's also St. Louis, Las Vegas, Portland, Toronto, Orlando and Omaha that I could see supporting a team.

What's everyone's thoughts?

The Los Angeles Chargers of San Diego will drop the "of San Diego" before their option expires. Guaran-damn-teed. If for no other reason than having a second franchise in Los Angeles may, in fact, hurt them if they stayed in San Diego, new stadium or not.

I'd love to see the Raiders make a move to the Sacramento area, but I'm also not stupid enough to think that would ever be a possibility.

This is partly tongue in cheek and I'd have had a better chance at winning Powerball on Wednesday but how about the Raiders move to Stockton. Cheap land, roughly an hour drive for fans from both the East Bay and Sacramento and two hours or so from Fresno...and it's right in Spanos' backyard.

Realistically I see them in Oakland at least this season but if I were Davis I'd be trying to get a lease deal in Santa Clara.

If I were Mark Davis I'd go hat-in-hand to York right now and ask for a five-year lease in Santa Clara. Barring that, I'd arrange a three-year lease at the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum to buy some more time, then announce that any city interested in being the Raiders new home should step forward with a proposal. From there? I'd see how things played out, makng the best deal possible.

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Two teams in Los Angeles didn't hurt San Diego the first time it happened. I don't see why it would now.

Angels and Dodgers existing doesn't hurt the Padres does it?

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