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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

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So now that it's over...this ends the list of teams that were contemplating the move dating back to the late 90s. Off the top of my head (even if they were just crazy rumors) and in no particular order:

Seahawks

Jaguars

Eagles (I think, when Lurie took over)

Vikings

Bills

Saints (?)

Raiders

Chargers (still will probably happen)

Any others?

the eagles move fiasco was in the 80s when Leonard Tose basically lost the team gambling in AC and almost sold them to a Phoenix group.

When Lurie took over there wasnt any talk of moving out of market. There was small talk about a stadium in DelCo if it couldn't get done on the city.

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I think I threw a napkin or something, but that makes the point a whole let dramatic doesn't it? ;)

Ice happens to be a long time member her who I generally and genuinely respect. I don't consider that simply taking an internet troll too seriously or something. To me it's a real person that I'm at least an acquaintance with (virtually, but nonetheless) calling me a liar and/or questioning my integrity. I don't think there's any issue with my reaction to such a situation.

To your follow up, Ice, I don't even think I disagree that things may have worked out about as well as things could have in this s***show. But that's not the same thing as having worked out properly, or fairly, or morally justifiably.

And for what it's worth, I've indeed already reached out to Dayton, and I hope he'll follow up with me.

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Tom Stillman would never rip a team out from under its fanbase.... *cough* Peoria. (Excuse me.)

As LGB! said above, LGB!

I know that's a little tongue-in-cheek, but Stillman didn't exactly rip the team out of Peoria. He sold the team. It's fair to say he knew what the result, would be, though. On the other hand, as I said before, when profitability isn't a guarantee, these things are trickier and more easily defended. Minor league hockey isn't a guaranteed profit. Actually, major league hockey (NHL) isn't a guaranteed profit either. In fact, I think the Blues are still a money losing organization at this point. The minor league franchise in Peoria likely was only making that worse.

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So now that it's over...this ends the list of teams that were contemplating the move dating back to the late 90s. Off the top of my head (even if they were just crazy rumors) and in no particular order:

Seahawks

Jaguars

Eagles (I think, when Lurie took over)

Vikings

Bills

Saints (?)

Raiders

Chargers (still will probably happen)

Any others?

the eagles move fiasco was in the 80s when Leonard Tose basically lost the team gambling in AC and almost sold them to a Phoenix group.

When Lurie took over there wasnt any talk of moving out of market. There was small talk about a stadium in DelCo if it couldn't get done on the city.

I'm pretty sure the Bengals used the vague threat of moving anywhere, but especially the newly vacant Los Angeles in around 1996 to get the ball rolling on Paul Brown Stadium. Then the city voted to pass the worst publicly financed stadium deal in American history. By 2000 the team was playing in the most flavorless new stadium I've ever seen.

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Paul_Brown_Stadium.JPG

It blends in seamlessly with its surrounding viaducts and parking lots. It's almost remarkable.

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Stan Kroenke wasn't going to be a victim in St. Louis, you guys.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-la-kroenke-20160114-story.html

Q: How do you feel about leaving St. Louis?

Kroenke: It truly is bittersweet. I grew up in Missouri, and there's a lot of wonderful people in St. Louis and Missouri. I'll always feel that way about Missouri. I never dreamed I'd be put in this position. But at the same time, you're not going to sit there and be a victim.

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Paul_Brown_Stadium.JPG

It blends in seamlessly with its surrounding viaducts and parking lots. It's almost remarkable.

I've never been there, but from this picture, it really doesn't look that different from Centurylink Field, which I thought had a decent amount of "flavor". Is it just the surrounding area?

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Paul_Brown_Stadium.JPG

It blends in seamlessly with its surrounding viaducts and parking lots. It's almost remarkable.

I've never been there, but from this picture, it really doesn't look that different from Centurylink Field, which I thought had a decent amount of "flavor". Is it just the surrounding area?

You're not wrong. CenturyLink has a brick facade, which helps:

9016896438_0ddf8f8552_z.jpg

Also, there's stuff to do around CenturyLink. Last I was in Cincinnati, you could go from Bengals Stadium to Great American, or go across the bridge to the aquarium and IMAX in Kentucky.

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Paul_Brown_Stadium.JPG

It blends in seamlessly with its surrounding viaducts and parking lots. It's almost remarkable.

I've never been there, but from this picture, it really doesn't look that different from Centurylink Field, which I thought had a decent amount of "flavor". Is it just the surrounding area?

You're not wrong. CenturyLink has a brick facade, which helps:

9016896438_0ddf8f8552_z.jpg

Also, there's stuff to do around CenturyLink. Last I was in Cincinnati, you could go from Bengals Stadium to Great American, or go across the bridge to the aquarium and IMAX in Kentucky.

From an architectural standpoint the outside is identifiable and looks cool. I was talking about the inside, which is a dark concrete fall out shelter with almost no evidence that an NFL team plays there. The inside of CenturyLink is well lit, wide open and has bright Seahawks images on the walls.

DG, when were you last in Cincinnati? Since at least 2012 there's as much to do around the Cincinnati stadiums now as there is in Sodo (source: me). "The Banks" is basically finished. When I first went to GABP in 2003 I was mostly disappointed because it stood alone next to a hole in the ground, but the way they've built up the area around it and the way the Reds have really grown into that stadium it's a fun place to go even when it's the offseason or the Reds are out of town.

Anyways, YAY RAMS!!!!!

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Face it St. Louis put up a faceless sterile dome to lure a team fast, they thought they would get an expansion team some idiots thought Jacksonville was better. They thought they get the Patriots but Bob Kraft stepped in at the 11th hour. They got the Rams owned by a flighty ex-showgirl who got the team under strange circumstances when her husband an experienced swimmer died in his swimming pool. The LA Rams made a mistake moving to Anaheim and allowing the Raiders to take their fan base, the Raiders who should have never left Oakland seemed to go with the neighborhood at the time. Rams rot in Anaheim Raiders out of place in LA both leave and boom second largest TV market has no home team.

LA could not get their excrement together and could not get a 2002 expansion team, and becomes the sword over ever cities head to build new stadia.

Finally LA gets their ducks in a row, Frontieri dies and Stan Kroenke a business man with deep pockets understanding what the Rams mean to LA puts two and two together and the Rams are going home. St. Louis only gets screwed because in 1993 some one though Jacksonville was a city on the move.

Face St. Louis the Rams are L.A. always have been well since 1946 any way, but think of all the movie stars that were once Rams

Bob Waterfield

Crazy Legs Hirsch had a career

Deacon Jones did some acting

Merlin Olsen

Fred Dryer

and I am sure there is more

The name LA Rams just rolls of the tongue, they should have never left in the first place.

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Tom Stillman would never rip a team out from under its fanbase.... *cough* Peoria. (Excuse me.)

As LGB! said above, LGB!

I know that's a little tongue-in-cheek, but Stillman didn't exactly rip the team out of Peoria. He sold the team. It's fair to say he knew what the result, would be, though. On the other hand, as I said before, when profitability isn't a guarantee, these things are trickier and more easily defended. Minor league hockey isn't a guaranteed profit. Actually, major league hockey (NHL) isn't a guaranteed profit either. In fact, I think the Blues are still a money losing organization at this point. The minor league franchise in Peoria likely was only making that worse.

I'm still slightly upset, but I've come to rationalize the move on the grounds that Stillman, like all St. Louis-area Blues owners since 1967, is horribly undercapitalized and can barely afford to run a hockey team. Actually the upset is kind of now balanced by the upset over how the team sacrificed its player development on the altar of the Chicago Wolves.

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....who got the team under strange circumstances when her husband an experienced swimmer died in his swimming pool.

Actually, Carroll Rosenbloom died while swimming in the Atlantic Ocean surf outside his beach house at Golden Beach, Florida.

And despite the rumors of foul play, there was a witness to his death, a French-Canadian tourist named Raymond Tanguey, who saw Rosenbloom 150 yards out to sea screaming for help and tried to save him, but by the time he got to Rosenbloom he had been face-down in the water for about 5 minutes. The Golden Beach police department had been called and arrived while Tanguey and Rosenbloom were still far out in the water. By the time the police were able to get Tanguey and Rosenbloom's body back to shore, they were about 150 yards north along the beach due to the heavy seas and cross-current.

Also according to his son, Steve, "Carroll was never a good swimmer."

(The League, p. 372-375).

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Tom Stillman would never rip a team out from under its fanbase.... *cough* Peoria. (Excuse me.)

As LGB! said above, LGB!

I know that's a little tongue-in-cheek, but Stillman didn't exactly rip the team out of Peoria. He sold the team. It's fair to say he knew what the result, would be, though. On the other hand, as I said before, when profitability isn't a guarantee, these things are trickier and more easily defended. Minor league hockey isn't a guaranteed profit. Actually, major league hockey (NHL) isn't a guaranteed profit either. In fact, I think the Blues are still a money losing organization at this point. The minor league franchise in Peoria likely was only making that worse.

I'm still slightly upset, but I've come to rationalize the move on the grounds that Stillman, like all St. Louis-area Blues owners since 1967, is horribly undercapitalized and can barely afford to run a hockey team. Actually the upset is kind of now balanced by the upset over how the team sacrificed its player development on the altar of the Chicago Wolves.

You think Blues player development is worse off with the Wolves than it was before? I understand why that could be felt, but I just don't think it's accurate. We had too many players not develop before for me to feel that way. I'm happy to try the route of "maybe trying to win and not JUST developing could be good for the prospects." I don't think it's been unsuccessful either.

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Ice, I'm not going to get in a prolonged argument with you. You're completely wrong, though. You're misrepresenting my views, and it pisses me off. (No joke, I just threw something.)

You have no right to question my motives and integrity. I've been nothing but consistent on this.

As for Kroenke, your head is in the sand if you think he's not doing this for money. And no sensible sports fan is asking for every team owner to relocate to build his own stadium. Sports as a major business would DIE if that became the norm, and it wouldn't be because the owners were spending their own money. It would be because fans would stop spending any of theirs.

I think Ice makes a good point here. You can't tell me the fans in San Diego aren't looking at Inglewood and wondering why Spanos can't just build his own damn stadium. Sure saves all the back and forth between the him and the taxpayers/city officials.

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I was in Cincinnati this past June to see the Tigers play the Reds. The riverfront/ area around and between the 2 stadiums is fantastic, but the actual stadium is completely flavorless. I walked around the entire thing to try to get a photo of something Bengals related. Literally any team could play there. No indication of anything Bengals except for a few tiny flags on lamp poles. Considering they have a pretty unique and distinctive brand, why not spruce up your stadium's exterior?

GABP on the other hand screams Reds. You look at it from afar and can tell the Reds play there. I was very impressed overall with the stadium. I love Comerica, but that park gives it a definite run for it's money.

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Ice, I'm not going to get in a prolonged argument with you. You're completely wrong, though. You're misrepresenting my views, and it pisses me off. (No joke, I just threw something.)

You have no right to question my motives and integrity. I've been nothing but consistent on this.

As for Kroenke, your head is in the sand if you think he's not doing this for money. And no sensible sports fan is asking for every team owner to relocate to build his own stadium. Sports as a major business would DIE if that became the norm, and it wouldn't be because the owners were spending their own money. It would be because fans would stop spending any of theirs.

I think Ice makes a good point here. You can't tell me the fans in San Diego aren't looking at Inglewood and wondering why Spanos can't just build his own damn stadium. Sure saves all the back and forth between the him and the taxpayers/city officials.

As someone in San Diego, not a Chargers fan but a taxpaying local, I've asked myself the same thing since they came up with the Carson plan. Partnering in Inglewood has simply continued this notion. They can obviously afford it, so why should the city provide them with anything other than their own existing parking lot. Infrastructure is already there, land is already there... put your damn stadium up if you want it so badly. Particularly after how badly Spanos and his puppet Fabiani have treated the city this last year. Spanos comes looking for public money the response should be...

url_zpsamxduqa3.gif

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Ice, I'm not going to get in a prolonged argument with you. You're completely wrong, though. You're misrepresenting my views, and it pisses me off. (No joke, I just threw something.)

You have no right to question my motives and integrity. I've been nothing but consistent on this.

As for Kroenke, your head is in the sand if you think he's not doing this for money. And no sensible sports fan is asking for every team owner to relocate to build his own stadium. Sports as a major business would DIE if that became the norm, and it wouldn't be because the owners were spending their own money. It would be because fans would stop spending any of theirs.

I think Ice makes a good point here. You can't tell me the fans in San Diego aren't looking at Inglewood and wondering why Spanos can't just build his own damn stadium. Sure saves all the back and forth between the him and the taxpayers/city officials.

Where do I fit into that?

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Ice, I'm not going to get in a prolonged argument with you. You're completely wrong, though. You're misrepresenting my views, and it pisses me off. (No joke, I just threw something.)

You have no right to question my motives and integrity. I've been nothing but consistent on this.

As for Kroenke, your head is in the sand if you think he's not doing this for money. And no sensible sports fan is asking for every team owner to relocate to build his own stadium. Sports as a major business would DIE if that became the norm, and it wouldn't be because the owners were spending their own money. It would be because fans would stop spending any of theirs.

I think Ice makes a good point here. You can't tell me the fans in San Diego aren't looking at Inglewood and wondering why Spanos can't just build his own damn stadium. Sure saves all the back and forth between the him and the taxpayers/city officials.

Where do I fit into that?

Unfortunately, I don't think you do.

What I wrote applies to St. Louis too. Kroenke just wanted to be in LA more. The only place I fault him is for leading STL on.

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This question probably isn't going to win me any fans, but I'm going to ask it anyway...

To all the St. Louis Rams fans - I understand that you're upset because your team is moving back to Los Angeles. My question is this - did it ever bother you that Los Angeles Rams fans had to lose their NFL team in order for you to get one? I'm not trying to be a jerk or rub it in, etc., I'm seriously asking because back when the Browns left, there was talk of Cleveland getting a relocated team. My thinking back then was I'd never root for a team that relocated to Cleveland. It just didn't seem right to be as upset as we were over losing the Browns and then end up rooting for a team that would have basically done the same thing to it's fanbase that the Browns had done to us.

This is actually a really good question... any Ravens fans old enough to have been upset by the Colts can chime in too.

Allow me. I was 16 when the Colts left and 28 when the Ravens move was announced. I remember both events like they were yesterday, so I'm probably qualified.

I think most Baltimore fans felt fairly ambivalent about the move because the wound of the Colts' move was still pretty raw, even after 12.5 years. However, there was also a feeling that Baltimore had done everything the right way in trying to get an expansion team and was left with no other option if it still wanted a team. It was widely believed (and not without justification, in my opinion) that the NFL (and particularly Paul Tagliabue) was dead set on moving into new markets and that expansion was a dead end . . . even assuming the NFL had any interest in expanding again after adding Carolina and Jacksonville.

Many fans were a little slow to embrace the Ravens at the start. However, two things helped ease the transition. First, by the time the Ravens took the field, Cleveland was already guaranteed to get a new team and a new stadium within three years.* Next, most of the old Colts legend (Johnny Unitas, Lenny Moore, Art Donovan, et al.) hated Irsay and wanted nothing to do with the Indianapolis Colts. They immediately adopted the Ravens and were welcomed by the team (e.g., standing on the sidelines, being introduced before games, etc.), which made it seem okay to embrace the Ravens.

The bottom line is that I'm pretty sure every Ravens fans would have preferred to get an expansion team instead of a relocated team. However, sometimes you have to do what you have to do . . . and if they didn't move to Baltimore, they would have gone somewhere else, so . . .

* -- I fully acknowledge that the move sucked for Browns fans. With that in mind (and not to reopen this argument), I'm pretty sure it is a lot easier to wait for 3 years when you know for the last 2.5 years that a new team was coming than to wait 13 years and have no idea whether a new team will ever materialize.

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Ice, I'm not going to get in a prolonged argument with you. You're completely wrong, though. You're misrepresenting my views, and it pisses me off. (No joke, I just threw something.)

You have no right to question my motives and integrity. I've been nothing but consistent on this.

As for Kroenke, your head is in the sand if you think he's not doing this for money. And no sensible sports fan is asking for every team owner to relocate to build his own stadium. Sports as a major business would DIE if that became the norm, and it wouldn't be because the owners were spending their own money. It would be because fans would stop spending any of theirs.

I think Ice makes a good point here. You can't tell me the fans in San Diego aren't looking at Inglewood and wondering why Spanos can't just build his own damn stadium. Sure saves all the back and forth between the him and the taxpayers/city officials.

Where do I fit into that?

Unfortunately, I don't think you do.

What I wrote applies to St. Louis too. Kroenke just wanted to be in LA more. The only place I fault him is for leading STL on.

I was just confused because you quoted me. Perhaps just a clerical error.

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