2016 NHL Off-Season Thread

[DDR]

2 hours ago, CS85 said:

Blackhawks trade Bryan Bickell AND Teuvo Teravainen to Carolina for second-rounder in 2016 and a third-rounder in 2017.

 

TT is likely going to be a regrettable trade for the BH, but at least he'll go to Carolina where dreams go to die.  At least Bickell is finally gone, too.

 

It's a product of the salary cap NHL that you have to trade an asset just to move an onerous contract, but it is what it is. Anyways, the trade as it stands now is incomplete. It's really Bickell and Teravainen for a 2nd, a 3rd, and whatever they do with the cap room that they wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. Defense? Shaw extension? Panarin extension? It's tough to part with Teuvo's potential, but the next move will likely make this move more palatable. 

[chrysleraspen08]

I don't think that Vegas will be a complete failure, at least not yet. For starters, I wouldn't lump them with right away with Arizona or Florida because their arena is downtown, and not in the middle of a desert or a swamp in the middle of nowhere. As for the tourist dollar, they certainly will get it even after a few years with a team. Just look at how many Oilers fans go to games in Arizona or how many Leafs fans go to games in Florida, and those markets have had teams for years. You might lose out on getting the casual fans, but really that's going to be a problem in most cities. As long as their team is reasonably competitive and can build a fan base that way early on, they should be fine for a while.

 

I would agree that I'm also a little surprised that the NBA wasn't first, but at the same time doesn't the NBA have a strict no gambling policy? I've heard about them having issues when the Toronto Raptors were joining the league because you could bet on games in Ontario through the lottery, and to this day you still can't because of that.

[tp49]

The Maloof's are involved it will be an unmitigated disaster.  After the mess they created in the NBA no sane investor should have considered these morons to be part of any ownership group.  Let's look at their list of successes...forced to sell their NBA team when they ran out of money, lost The Palms to the banks and sold their only real profitable business (the beer distributorship) in an unsuccessful effort to save The Palms.  I can't imagine given their track record why any professional sports league would allow these NBA reject a$$clowns anywhere near their ownership ranks.

 

Then I realized it was the NHL.  OITGDNHL.

[Still MIGHTY]

On 6/14/2016 at 1:02 PM, Still MIGHTY said:

 

Sighhhhhhhhhhh...

 

Randy Carlyle.

 

If Randy is to be believed from his press conference, he said that he's changed from the first time/his time in Toronto/his time in unemployment, he understands what you need to do to in today's NHL, he know what the "modern athlete" needs. He did show a little bit of that change at the presser... He cracked a joke!

 

Bottom line is, this is a move for right now, like immediately. This isn't a long-term plan. This is having a guy that won a Cup with this team's two best players (Getzlaf/Perry) coming into this group that is downtrodden, confidence beaten, mentally broken. The idea is that those players have seen what's happened, knows what they need to do, and will all buy in from a guy who's done it with this franchise for a right now shot at the Cup. Carlyle can't come in with the exact same mentality as before, and hopefully all his talk about learning and changing is true. (He's also been watching the Ducks in the press box at the Pond for the last 6 months, so he's seen it all up close.) Ultimately, Randy can come in and just say to everyone "sacrifice for the team for one season and give it your all" and it can work.

 

So as much as I don't like going back to a coach and as much as I remember the end of Randy's stint and all the dump-and-chase, lead-defending, excruciating 2-1 hockey games... Carlyle is still the winningest coach in team history, won a Cup with these two stars and the same management group. He can come in right now and rally them in a one or two year shot. That's all he's gonna get (as his previous stint shows, that's all will be allowed). That's all this team is going to get before the really big changes (i.e. cleaning house) comes in.

 

And all that said, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Teemu Selanne, and J.S. Giguere aren't walking through that door to lead this team either. This group has to change its mentality to get to where it wants to be. That's, hopefully, what Carlyle can do.

 

Or it'll be a big  ing mess. Who knows!

 

BTW, I'm still screaming on the inside.

 

Like, seriously? Seriously? This is what we're doing? Randy ing Carlyle? ing again?

 

God damn it.

[worcat]

What's still mind boggling to me is people saying that the NHL is risking moving to Vegas as an unproven market. 

The NHL gets blasted and questioned for being a pioneer in a new market and the same would be said if they were the last to the dance after the MLB, NBA, and NFL were before them. I don't understand people's logic. I'm the glad the NHL is taking the risk and being the first.

 

Also with the idea that a NFL team would bury the NHL team? Please explain?! The only way it would hurt the team is if they had games on Sunday, and that's only 8 games a year. If anything, cross promotion between the two clubs would be the best things Vegas could do. To me, there just seems to be alot of hate toward the Vegas team already. It hasn't even been officially announced by the NHL and people are already declaring it a failure compared to Atlanta. Get over yourselves already and give it a chance. SMH  

[worcat]

4 hours ago, McCarthy said:

Only 8 games to compete with, but season tickets cost the same and more people/businesses will choose to spend their sports dollars on the NFL than on the NHL. This is true in every city that has both. 

 

Also, I know not everyone in the city works in the entertainment sector, but you can't not include it because it's part of the city and employs a lot of people. Maybe locals aren't going to the strip for their own fun times, but a larger percentage of Vegas residents work nights and weekends to support the entertainment sector than other cities. Nights and weekends are when hockey games are played. 

To be fair from working in the casino industry, "a  larger percentage of Vegas residents work nights and weekends to support the entertainment sector than other cities" is reaching. Casino's are broken up into three shifts and have about the same staff on each shift. The only thing that may be adjusted is more beverage servers and maybe 5-10 more dealers for table games from 8pm-3am on the weekends. However, Human Resources and most of the Directors/General Managers are off work - who would more than likely afford season tickets.

 

I don't think those statistics will severely hurt the box office numbers.

[rams80]

1 hour ago, tp49 said:

The Maloof's are involved it will be an unmitigated disaster.  After the mess they created in the NBA no sane investor should have considered these morons to be part of any ownership group.  Let's look at their list of successes...forced to sell their NBA team when they ran out of money, lost The Palms to the banks and sold their only real profitable business (the beer distributorship) in an unsuccessful effort to save The Palms.  I can't imagine given their track record why any professional sports league would allow these NBA reject a$$clowns anywhere near their ownership ranks.

 

Then I realized it was the NHL.  OITGDNHL.

 

I should also add the Maloofs were the primary drivers behind the NBA's Las Vegas push...so, yeah....

[rams80]

16 minutes ago, worcat said:

To be fair from working in the casino industry, "a  larger percentage of Vegas residents work nights and weekends to support the entertainment sector than other cities" is reaching. Casino's are broken up into three shifts and have about the same staff on each shift. The only thing that may be adjusted is more beverage servers and maybe 5-10 more dealers for table games from 8pm-3am on the weekends. However, Human Resources and most of the Directors/General Managers are off work - who would more than likely afford season tickets.

 

I don't think those statistics will severely hurt the box office numbers.

 

When I think of season-ticket buying hockey fans I don't think of HR people.  Or really anyone else with an advanced business degree.

[rams80]

22 minutes ago, worcat said:

What's still mind boggling to me is people saying that the NHL is risking moving to Vegas as an unproven market. 

The NHL gets blasted and questioned for being a pioneer in a new market and the same would be said if they were the last to the dance after the MLB, NBA, and NFL were before them. I don't understand people's logic. I'm the glad the NHL is taking the risk and being the first.

 

Part of the complaints are also premised on "expansion right now with as many struggling franchises as there are is a dumb, short-sighted cash grab that will ultimately hurt the league, FULL STOP."

 

This is a time for the league to be risk-averse.  And "grand experiment" is just as bad as "crowded market" which is why they get flack from both ends.  A one or two-team market with the right growth could work.  Sadly Kansas City realized they could make more without having an NBA or NHL team as a tenant.

 

 

22 minutes ago, worcat said:

 

Also with the idea that a NFL team would bury the NHL team? Please explain?!

 

Based on your observations of how it works elsewhere, what news item do you suppose is going to get more local coverage?  "Black Aces play the Predators tonight" or "the Raiders are looking at a defensive tackle in the first round"?  The NFL is a 365 day media monster that sucks up all of the oxygen in the room.  You're automatically second banana the second the NFL team moves in.  (Maybe even 3rd banana because the op/ed "Jesus Christ, Marvin Menzies really doesn't know how to coach a basketball team part 67" might get higher billing than the hockey team.)

 

22 minutes ago, worcat said:

The only way it would hurt the team is if they had games on Sunday, and that's only 8 games a year. If anything, cross promotion between the two clubs would be the best things Vegas could do.

 

I think the NFL has rules constraining cross promotion unless the franchises have the same owner.

 

22 minutes ago, worcat said:

To me, there just seems to be alot of hate toward the Vegas team already. It hasn't even been officially announced by the NHL and people are already declaring it a failure compared to Atlanta. Get over yourselves already and give it a chance. SMH  

 

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and oh god this thing's made out of balsa.  Maybe we should care a little.

[worcat]

rams80 - all your points are valid but i feel like too many people are already playing the chicken little role a little premature.

 

The NFL is the NFL. It's the bread and butter of sports. I don't think it would completely bury the NHL team. Now if Vegas had an MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL team - then yes I would agree that the NHL team would be the red headed step son and left on the side of the road.

[C-Squared]

1 hour ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

BTW, I'm still screaming on the inside.

 

Like, seriously? Seriously? This is what we're doing? Randy ing Carlyle? ing again?

 

God damn it.

 

True story - I went to college with Randy's son the year the Ducks won the cup. We met through his girlfriend, if you know what I mean.

[BeerGuyJordan]

2 hours ago, worcat said:

What's still mind boggling to me is people saying that the NHL is risking moving to Vegas as an unproven market. 

The NHL gets blasted and questioned for being a pioneer in a new market and the same would be said if they were the last to the dance after the MLB, NBA, and NFL were before them. I don't understand people's logic. I'm the glad the NHL is taking the risk and being the first.

 

Also with the idea that a NFL team would bury the NHL team? Please explain?! The only way it would hurt the team is if they had games on Sunday, and that's only 8 games a year. If anything, cross promotion between the two clubs would be the best things Vegas could do. To me, there just seems to be alot of hate toward the Vegas team already. It hasn't even been officially announced by the NHL and people are already declaring it a failure compared to Atlanta. Get over yourselves already and give it a chance. SMH  

The NFL dominates ANY of the other leagues when they go head to head. It's not just game-times. People who follow football and hockey tend to focus much more on football, overall. Also, I know a lot of people (from living in Arizona, California, Texas and Tennessee) who don't even really follow the NHL until their team is out of the football season. I even see it a bit in MN, and that's (arguably) the most hockey-crazy state in the US. Hockey is gaining in popularity, but for most of the US, football is the biggest sport in their lives.

 

1 hour ago, rams80 said:

 

When I think of season-ticket buying hockey fans I don't think of HR people.  Or really anyone else with an advanced business degree.

I read a study by some Ivy league school a couple of years back that said that fans who favor hockey above all other sports are typically slightly higher IQ, better educated, and less likely to have a criminal degree, when compared to football, basketball and baseball.

 

They weren't entirely sure why, and gave a lot of suggestions for the findings. What resonated with me was the suggestion that the constant speed of the game is more stimulating to the brain on a subconcious level and the hard hits being "just enough" violence to appeal to our baser instincts without being overly so.

 

I need to try and find that article. 

[Cosmic]

1 hour ago, rams80 said:

I think the NFL has rules constraining cross promotion unless the franchises have the same owner.

I think they have rules even with the same owner.  I can't find an article, but I swear I remember hearing that the NFL would not allow sponsorships or tickets of the Bills to be bundled with the Sabres, even though they have the same owner.  IIRC it wasn't an actual proposal, just spitballing in the paper; it's possible the NFL would relent if the situation actually came up.

 

.....................................................

 

Each NHL team will get about $16.7M from expansion fees, but then they also have to divide the shared revenue into 31 pieces instead of 30.  That's about $575,000 per year less per team just from the two TV contracts (if you trust my math).  Do we really expect Vegas to pull its weight revenue-wise?  I'd say it's a lock for bottom half of the league in that regard, even if things go fairly well.  It just doesn't make sense.

[tp49]

The other point to ponder if the Raiders move to Las Vegas is twofold.  First, Las Vegas' proximity to Los Angeles (a four hour drive up the 15 or a 45 minute or so flight) where there is still a decent sized contingent of Raider fans.  Check out the Oakland Airport on a Raiders home game day and see how many people in silver and black are boarding Southwest flights back to the LA area.  A lot of that traffic would shift to Vegas.  Second, there are a good number of LA and Bay Area transplants in Las Vegas and I'm sure included in that number is a decent sized contingent of Raider fans.  Thus instant fan base to build from which is something an NHL franchise is going to have to build on their own which is going to be a much steeper hill to climb.

 

Also, I go to Las Vegas several times a year and whenever I'm there on a Sunday it seems that damn near everyone is wearing some sort of NFL team gear and it's close to impossible to get into the sports books with all the fans watching the games on the big screens.  The NHL will have issues in Las Vegas for the reasons others here mentioned.  I should also point out that I have several friends and family members who live in the Las Vegas Valley and they all avoid the strip like the plague only going if they have out of town guests and for the people I know who work on the Strip, they want to get the hell away from there as soon as their shift ends.

[rams80]

1 hour ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

I read a study by some Ivy league school a couple of years back that said that fans who favor hockey above all other sports are typically slightly higher IQ, better educated, and less likely to have a criminal degree, when compared to football, basketball and baseball.

 

They weren't entirely sure why, and gave a lot of suggestions for the findings. What resonated with me was the suggestion that the constant speed of the game is more stimulating to the brain on a subconcious level and the hard hits being "just enough" violence to appeal to our baser instincts without being overly so.

 

I need to try and find that article. 

 

How cute, you think people with advanced business degrees are smart.

[rams80]

1 hour ago, Cosmic said:

Each NHL team will get about $16.7M from expansion fees, but then they also have to divide the shared revenue into 31 pieces instead of 30.  That's about $575,000 per year less per team just from the two TV contracts (if you trust my math).  Do we really expect Vegas to pull its weight revenue-wise?  I'd say it's a lock for bottom half of the league in that regard, even if things go fairly well.  It just doesn't make sense.

 

The savings will be realized from the reduced salary cap.

[dfwabel]

20 minutes ago, tp49 said:

The other point to ponder if the Raiders move to Las Vegas is twofold.  First, Las Vegas' proximity to Los Angeles (a four hour drive up the 15 or a 45 minute or so flight) where there is still a decent sized contingent of Raider fans.  Check out the Oakland Airport on a Raiders home game day and see how many people in silver and black are boarding Southwest flights back to the LA area.  A lot of that traffic would shift to Vegas.  Second, there are a good number of LA and Bay Area transplants in Las Vegas and I'm sure included in that number is a decent sized contingent of Raider fans.  Thus instant fan base to build from which is something an NHL franchise is going to have to build on their own which is going to be a much steeper hill to climb.

 

Also, I go to Las Vegas several times a year and whenever I'm there on a Sunday it seems that damn near everyone is wearing some sort of NFL team gear and it's close to impossible to get into the sports books with all the fans watching the games on the big screens.  The NHL will have issues in Las Vegas for the reasons others here mentioned.  I should also point out that I have several friends and family members who live in the Las Vegas Valley and they all avoid the strip like the plague only going if they have out of town guests and for the people I know who work on the Strip, they want to get the hell away from there as soon as their shift ends.

We'll likely never know the lease, but little is going to be in their favor outside of the gate.

 

MGM owns the nearby garages at New York New York, the Monte Carlo (or whatever it is rebranded as), Paris, Ballys, Excalibur, MGM Grand & CityCenter. MGM has been charging $10/car for months now and it will remain $10 if bought in advance and $20 on night of event. AEG and MGM control all the varieties of premium seats and the concessions contract with Levy.

[NYUNDERDOGS]

On April 28, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Atomic said:

 

PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA

[NYUNDERDOGS]

Well it looks like the NHL is going to lose a lot of money once LV comes in

[2001mark]

I have a question... with Las Vegas moving to the Pacific division, & the league surely to land in Seattle within another decade to even the entire sheet, who moves to the Central?  Will Las Vegas have a caveat in this deal to move once that happens?  Would they really push Las Vegas away from all the California teams?

Can't possibly split up Calgary & Edmonton, & Arizona surely can't be a Central team.

 

Good talk Gary.

 

Looks like the end of divisions, which isn't entirely bad.