Jump to content

2017 NFL Season: Then there were Two


buzzcut
 Share

Recommended Posts

40 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

The Patriots, as a franchise, are a measly .500 in the Super Bowl. That'll help keep me warm as I fall asleep tonight.

 

In some Twilight Zone style  :censored: for me, a former Arizona Wildcat just led the Philadelphia freaking Eagles to a Super Bowl win and I absolutely could not be happier. I didnt think that was possible, and I doubt it'll ever happen again. 

 

It just goes goes to show one very simple truth about life. It's the little things. 

 

I think I speak for an awful lot of Bucs fans of a certain age, that being old enough to remember those Bucs-Eagles yearly playoff encounters at the Vet between 2000 and 2002, when I say that it's a very strange feeling, even all these years later, to be so happy that the g-ddamned Philadelphia Eagles are the Super Bowl champions. I'm sure that says more about the Patriots than it does the Eagles (as well as the fact that the Bucs have been worthless piles of crap since 2002) but there's always the old feeling of rivalry that exists in our memories, a feeling that colors the best two games we've ever had as NFL fans, and the juxtaposition of it all is definitely interesting to think about. 

 

G-d willing, one of these years (hopefully 2018 but yeah right), the Bucs will get their act together and we'll see the Bucs and the Eagles meeting in the playoffs again, and the next generation of Bucs fans can experience what we once felt so long ago now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, RockyTopper said:

Exactly. Their dominance as a dynasty is reflected in how close and down-to-the-wire their three SB losses are and just how excellent the teams that beat them those three times had to play just to edge them out.

Their wins were all by like three points, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Their wins were all by like three points, too.

Yep, their average margin of victory in the five Super Bowl wins was 3.8 points, whereas in the three losses, the opponents' average margin of victory was five points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

 

What, would "I have been to the mountaintop in my tough but comfortable Dodge Ram" have been too on the nose? Jesus Christ burn this country down and start over.

 

Pepsi- "There's no way anyone will be able to top our 'Kendall Jenner brokers peace between protesters and cops' for worst commercial idea ever.

 

Dodge- "Hold my beer..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, DG_Now said:

By the way, just in case anyone gets stupid, Tom Brady is still the greatest QB of all time and the Belichick/Brady Patriots are the greatest NFL dynasty of all time. The Eagles had to basically play a perfect game in order to win today, and even then it still came down to the last play and the entire stadium was clenching its butt cheeks when the ball was in the air.

 

EDIT: changed "franchise" to "dynasty."

This is undoubtedly the most dominant stretch by a franchise and Belichick is simply in a different level.  But I’ll never be convinced that Brady is so obviously the greatest ever.  I know rings is the only stat that matters, but to an extent, he is a product of this great system.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, OnWis97 said:

This is undoubtedly the most dominant stretch by a franchise and Belichick is simply in a different level.  But I’ll never be convinced that Brady is so obviously the greatest ever.  I know rings is the only stat that matters, but to an extent, he is a product of this great system.  

 

If it's a system, then why has nobody - not even former coordinators - been able to replicate it?  Obviously even a great system needs a great QB, but if nobody has been able to do it then that's in indication that the QB that can do it is simply better than all of the others.  We'll never know, and that's one of the great things about sports - we can discuss these things forever.  IMO you can only evaluate based on what has happened, not what could have or might have happened.  Rings aren't everything, but for my money, Brady is the greatest.  I saw most of Montana's SBs, and he's in that discussion, but if I had to draft a team to play one game with my life on the line, I'm picking Brady over Montana or anyone else in what is a very short list of candidates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Belichick's ability to get marginal, run-of-the-mill rosters to Super Bowls makes him the best coach in my eyes. When were the Patriots ever the most talented team? I don't think ever. Maybe 2007. The cheating :censored: is overblown and sour grapes.

 

I was too young to see Gibbs, but weren't his teams loaded with a bunch of hall-of-famers on both sides of the ball? I know they always had a stout o-line and good defense. That makes the "3 QBs!" thing matter a little less to me. 

 

Take the Patriots exact roster the last two years, remove Belichick, remove the machine he built, put them in Miami. That's an 8-8 football team. He's worth at least 5 extra wins a season. 

 

 

BTW, the NFC East is now the only division where all 4 teams have won a Super Bowl. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Gibbs (1.0) teams were great, though they pretty much relied on the counter play and great line play.  Gibbs was all about the lines.  They also had a great receiver and defense, but average QBs (Rypien / Doug Williams).  Gibbs was a great coach, however that was pre-salary cap era, so he never had to worry about linemen wanting more money than they could afford and just leaving.  It was also pre-free agency.  We saw when he came back that he couldn't do it again, albeit their ownership / mgmt situation may have had something to do with that.

 

Given all the challenges inherent in today's league, I think it's clearly Doug Pederson, followed by Belichick.  Again, we'll never know, and will be able to discuss it forever.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BringBackTheVet said:

The Gibbs (1.0) teams were great, though they pretty much relied on the counter play and great line play.  Gibbs was all about the lines.  They also had a great receiver and defense, but average QBs (Rypien / Doug Williams).  Gibbs was a great coach, however that was pre-salary cap era, so he never had to worry about linemen wanting more money than they could afford and just leaving.  It was also pre-free agency.  We saw when he came back that he couldn't do it again, albeit their ownership / mgmt situation may have had something to do with that.

 

Given all the challenges inherent in today's league, I think it's clearly Doug Pederson, followed by Belichick.  Again, we'll never know, and will be able to discuss it forever.  

 

 

 

You raise a good point. You can only go on the data you have, which shows that head-to-head, there's really no contest. In championship games, Doug Pederson has a perfect record over Bill Belichick. Nick Foles, also, has demonstrated that in head-to-head championship games, he is the clearcut favorite to start over Tom Brady.

 

So I guess I take it all back. When you look at the 2017 Eagles vs the 2017 Patriots, only one of those two teams is a contender for greatest football -- if not greatest of all sports! -- teams of all time. It's too bad there's no Champions League for American football, though given what the Eagles showed yesterday, I bet they could take PSG or Barcelona no problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, DG_Now said:

 

You raise a good point. You can only go on the data you have, which shows that head-to-head, there's really no contest. In championship games, Doug Pederson has a perfect record over Bill Belichick. Nick Foles, also, has demonstrated that in head-to-head championship games, he is the clearcut favorite to start over Tom Brady.

 

So I guess I take it all back. When you look at the 2017 Eagles vs the 2017 Patriots, only one of those two teams is a contender for greatest football -- if not greatest of all sports! -- teams of all time. It's too bad there's no Champions League for American football, though given what the Eagles showed yesterday, I bet they could take PSG or Barcelona no problem.

 

I'm not sure if Nick Foles can kick a ball, but when you factor in Jake Elliot's leg, that linebacker that had to kick in that one game, Nick Foles' third leg, and all the other talent, I'm pretty sure the Eagles would win the premier league if they decided to transition into an association football team.  There's really nothing that Doug Pederson couldn't get them to be great at.

 

Seriously though, I don't know that "records" or "rings" are the true measure - or at least not the biggest one.  A coach that routinely gets teams of nobodies to overperform might never win a championship, but is still a great coach.  It's just so much harder to measure stuff like that.  Also I don't think that guys like Marino should be penalized for not having great talent around them, though the greatest seem to be able to overcome that, and it's really hard to measure the strength of a supporting cast.

 

Since I've been watching the NFL, guys like Walsh, Parcells, Gibbs, Kotite, Jimmy Johnson, and now Bellichick have all come up in the discussion for GOAT.  I'll narrow it down to Walsh and Belichick, but like I mentioned above about the extra challenges involved in maintaining consistency in today's era, I gotta go with the latter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So in the beginning of the season, Lane Johnson said that he'd buy the whole city beer if they won the Super Bowl.  Bud Light said in a tweet that it would be on them, because obv they never thought they'd have to pay up.

 

Well, in addition to the commercial where the "king" apologized (the "philly philly" one), they're actually giving out free beer all along the parade route (even though the route hasn't been announced yet.)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Belichick's done it with radically different rosters for nearly 20 years. It's pretty special. I think it all changes in a post-Brady world, but so what? He's terrorized the AFC (and certainly the AFC East) since the Bush administration. It's a completely different sport, but it's interesting that a guy like Bobby Cox isn't seen in the same light. Those Braves teams only won the one title, but they did win their division 14 straight times. 

 

You know what seems like a bad idea? Giving Philadelphia free beer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

Belichick's done it with radically different rosters for nearly 20 years. It's pretty special. I think it all changes in a post-Brady world, but so what? He's terrorized the AFC (and certainly the AFC East) since the Bush administration. It's a completely different sport, but it's interesting that a guy like Bobby Cox isn't seen in the same light. Those Braves teams only won the one title, but they did win their division 14 straight times. 

 

You know what seems like a bad idea? Giving Philadelphia free beer.

 

I think it actually works against Bobby Cox, much like Andy Reid's successes work against him.  When you look at the ridiculous talent he had every year (a staff with multiple cy-young caliber pitchers, ace closers, great young hitters), for him to only win one world championship with that team says a lot.  Doesn't mean he's bad, but it's reasonable to think that other managers would have gotten more out of them.

 

Same with Reid.  He won a ton of games, made it to one SB and 5 NFC championship games, but considering the teams he had, he came up small when it mattered the most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.