Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[Cujo]

3 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Comiskey was somewhere in between old Yankee Stadium (a festering toilet by the end) and the Oakland Coliseum

 

So what you're saying is it could still be played in today. 

[spartacat_12]

Shameless had a few nods to the Sox, which makes sense considering South Side pride was a main source of identity for a lot of the characters. Although I'm pretty sure the cast sang Take Me Out to the Ballgame at Wrigley at some point.

 

[OnWis97]

Anecdotally, a friend of mine is a Cubs fan because in the 1980s their games were so frequently day games that he'd watch with some frequency while babysitting his siblings in the summer. Twins games were not on during the day as much and between late starts on the west coast and even home games ending past bed time, he just attached himself to the Cubs. I'm sure he's not unique nationwide. On cable (which my parents would not get) in Minnesota (and I think much of the Country) TBS was also showing Braves games. And while they became beloved in the early 1990s, TBS didn't do much for them in the 1980s. Sure, part of it was because they kind of stunk, but they also didn't have as many day games as the Cubs (who stunk at times but won a couple of division titles in the 1980s). Given what happened starting in 1991, it's weird to think that in the 1980s the Braves were one of the least notable franchises in MLB (Maybe I would not see it that way if I was old enough to remember 715).

 

To what degree that helped bring the Sox to "un-favored sibling" I am not sure. I think Wrigley Field was always going to make that happen.

If MLB didn't exist and a new 30-team baseball league was going to be developed, I don't think anyone outside of New York and maybe LA/burbs would get multiple teams. The Cubs and Sox situation is kind of lingering from the the AL and NL were competing leagues. I hope it works out on the Southside, though. It would be nice for a city/region that size to have an MLB option with attainable tickets. (based on my 2007 experience, the Bay Area seems to be losing that...)

[Sodboy13]

2 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

TBS didn't do much for them in the 1980s. Sure, part of it was because they kind of stunk, but they also didn't have as many day games as the Cubs (who stunk at times but won a couple of division titles in the 1980s). 

 

I hadn't thought about this until right now, but up until 1993, MLB had that nonsensical alignment that put the Braves in the AL West. So all summer long, the kids are at home watching the Cubs at 2:20 ET, and the Braves are on another trip through California starting at 10:05 ET.

[WillLanigan]

21 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

up until 1993, MLB had that nonsensical alignment that put the Braves in the AL West

It was so stupid.  The Braves and the Reds were both in the West, because the Cubs and Cardinals got their way in being put in the East.  Also, the White Sox were in the West, while the Brewers were in the East.  And that's not even mentioning the NFL, with Dallas and Arizona in the East, and New Orleans and Atlanta in the West.

[Digby]

How did The Bear end up with its baseball team fandom being Boston, for some reason? Was that a plot point I missed in a show that otherwise written to not exist without Chicago as a main character?

[Digby]

On 2023-08-22 at 4:37 PM, Cujo said:

 

The White Sox would be a much bigger deal in city of Nashville than they could ever be as "little brother" in Chicago. I don't even think a Jordan-esque dynasty could catapult the Sox over the Cubs in the longrun.

 

However, do I think the White Sox leave Chicago? Absolutely not. But business and popularity-wise, Nashville would be the right call. And fwiw, Nashville also keeps them in the AL Central, so they can continue their rivalries with Cleveland, Minnesota, etc.

 

By media market size, Nashville is barely 20% the size of Chicago, so it's not like perfect Cubs/Sox equilibrium or anything near it is even necessary to stay viable.

[Cujo]

53 minutes ago, Digby said:

By media market size, Nashville is barely 20% the size of Chicago, so it's not like perfect Cubs/Sox equilibrium or anything near it is even necessary to stay viable.

 

Which is better for the White Sox, or any franchise for that matter? To play second fiddle to one of MLB's biggest brands in a large metropolis -or- play in a market that gives them an entire city, state, region to themselves?

 

Feels like a push, but then factor in that Nashville's going to get that new stadium which Chicago probably isn't.

[GDAWG]

Would any of the suburbs who lose out to the Bears go after the White Sox?  

[Sodboy13]

18 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

Would any of the suburbs who lose out to the Bears go after the White Sox?  

Any of the suburbs who can afford it don't hate themselves that much.

[LMU]

Another reason for the White Sox to bolt…

 

[Sec19Row53]

3 minutes ago, LMU said:

Another reason for the White Sox to bolt…

 

How does that get through the metal detectors?

[TBGKon]

Per this article, they’re not sure if the shots fired came from inside or outside the stadium 

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38261825/chicago-police-investigating-shooting-white-sox-game?platform=amp

[Cujo]

14 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

How does that get through the metal detectors?

 

[The_Admiral]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:38 PM, Sodboy13 said:

I hadn't thought about this until right now, but up until 1993, MLB had that nonsensical alignment that put the Braves in the AL West. So all summer long, the kids are at home watching the Cubs at 2:20 ET, and the Braves are on another trip through California starting at 10:05 ET.

 

Looked up the schedule for the '92 Braves and it was nine road games apiece against Los Angeles, San Francisco, and San Diego, or one out of every six games in California. Didn't bother to look at the start times for them but I'd guess at least 20 were 10 Eastern. Suboptimal for sure, but what's better: a wacky schedule on national TV, or a sensible one on an RSN no one wants?

[YELDARBfield]

On 8/25/2023 at 2:55 PM, Cujo said:

...

Feels like a push, but then factor in that Nashville's going to get that new stadium which Chicago probably isn't.

I mean, I wouldn't count on that.

[Sodboy13]

"Braves in the AL West." Man, my brain really did have heat stroke on Thursday.

[spartacat_12]

On 8/25/2023 at 3:55 PM, Cujo said:

Which is better for the White Sox, or any franchise for that matter? To play second fiddle to one of MLB's biggest brands in a large metropolis -or- play in a market that gives them an entire city, state, region to themselves?

 

I'd say it's better for them to play in the market they've called home for 120 years. 

 

Based on your logic, shouldn't the Mets be moved out of NYC? 

[Walk-Off]

Tampa Bay Times: Rays ‘highly optimistic’ about getting St. Petersburg stadium deal done

 

My own takeaways from this article are:

• Just as John Fisher has said in at least one of his recent interviews that he wants to keep owning the A's for as long as possible, Stuart Sternberg states in this article that he wants to hang onto the Rays for as long as possible ... and also, more specifically, as long as the Rays are playing somewhere in the Tampa-St. Petersburg area.  (I will have more on that in a bit.)  Unlike Fisher, however, Sternberg admits to being receptive to offers to buy his team for a high enough price.  I, for one, think that Sternberg is walking a refreshingly fine line between honesty and humility on this kind of matter.
• Sternberg claims that much more progress is being made on a proposal for a new ballpark anchoring an 86-acre mixed-use development in St. Petersburg's Historic Gas Plant District (the neighborhood where Tropicana Field happens to be located) than on any alternative on the Tampa / Hillsborough County side of the bay.  If he is telling the truth, then I, personally, feel disappointed by such news, given the Rays' longstanding and well-documented struggles to draw fans to the Trop.  However, if the Rays need to stay in St. Pete and especially in their present neighborhood in order to have any future as a Tampa Bay team, then a ballpark within a mixed-use development full of high-density and high-value residential units would at least create a potential for a large "captive audience" of people who could afford tickets to lots of Rays home games and take short walks to each of those games.
• Another noteworthy thing mentioned by Sternberg is that if the Rays clinch an agreement for a new ballpark in the Tampa-St. Petersburg area, he will insist that any would-be buyer of the Rays accept said deal and keep the franchise in its current market.  However, should the only acceptable deal(s) for a new venue for the Rays be outside the Tampa Bay region, then he would sell the Rays rather than move the team himself.  If Sternberg is being truthful on this issue, then his stance, ironically, reminds me of the Giants' near-relocation to the Tampa Bay area just over three decades ago; Bob Lurie was unwilling to move the Giants out of the San Francisco Bay Area on his own, but was willing to sell the Giants to a group that wanted to relocate the team away from that region.  As for the past (and, IMO, horribly awkward) idea of the Rays splitting seasons between the Tampa-St. Petersburg and Montréal areas, Sternberg argues that it would have been a way for the Rays to maintain a base in the Tampa Bay region -- enough of a base, I presume, for him to keep feeling comfortable with owning that team.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Walk-Off
Correcting a misspelling in bullet point #2 and replacing "any and every acceptable deal" with "the only acceptable deal(s)" in bullet point #3

[GDAWG]

13 hours ago, Walk-Off said:

Tampa Bay Times: Rays ‘highly optimistic’ about getting St. Petersburg stadium deal done

 

My own takeaways from this article are:

• Just as John Fisher has said in at least one of his recent interviews that he wants to keep owning the A's for as long as possible, Stuart Sternberg states in this article that he wants to hang onto the Rays for as long as possible ... and also, more specifically, as long as the Rays are playing somewhere in the Tampa-St. Petersburg area.  (I will have more on that in a bit.)  Unlike Fisher, however, Sternberg admits to being receptive to offers to buy his team for a high enough price.  I, for one, think that Sternberg is walking a refreshingly fine line between honesty and humility on this kind of matter.
• Sternberg claims that much more progress is being made on a proposal for a new ballpark anchoring an 86-acre mixed-use development in St. Petersburg's Historic Gas Plant District (the neighborhood where Tropicana Field happens to be located) than on any alternative on the Tampa / Hillsborough County side of the bay.  If he is telling the truth, then I, personally, feel dissapointed by such news, given the Rays' longstanding and well-documented struggles to draw fans to the Trop.  However, if the Rays need to stay in St. Pete and especially in their present neighborhood in order to have any future as a Tampa Bay team, then a ballpark within a mixed-use development full of high-density and high-value residential units would at least create a potential for a large "captive audience" of people who could afford tickets to lots of Rays home games and take short walks to each of those games.
• Another noteworthy thing mentioned by Sternberg is that if the Rays clinch an agreement for a new ballpark in the Tampa-St. Petersburg area, he will insist that any would-be buyer of the Rays accept said deal and keep the franchise in its current market.  However, should any and every acceptable deal for a new venue for the Rays be outside the Tampa Bay region, then he would sell the Rays rather than move the team himself.  If Sternberg is being truthful on this issue, then his stance, ironically, reminds me of the Giants' near-relocation to the Tampa Bay area just over three decades ago; Bob Lurie was unwilling to move the Giants out of the San Francisco Bay Area on his own, but was willing to sell the Giants to a group that wanted to relocate the team away from that region.  As for the past (and, IMO, horribly awkward) idea of the Rays splitting seasons between the Tampa-St. Petersburg and Montréal areas, Sternberg argues that it would have been a way for the Rays to maintain a base in the Tampa Bay region -- enough of a base, I presume, for him to keep feeling comfortable with owning that team.

 

I know that there are fans online who want Jeff Vinik (Lightning Owner) to buy the Rays.