MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[NJTank]

There is a one in a billion chance the Rays will move to Jersey, let alone Newark. However, if they do move to Newark I would have to change teams, because I would want them to succeed and thrive in NJ.

[MEANS]

move them to Indy

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

Don't understand how Jersey is always in the mix.

The Devils have always had attendance issues and they've been among the most successful teams in the league for the past 2 decades (even now that they're out of the swamp, still relatively low)

The Nets had trouble drawing 14,000 fans when they were a title contender.

Now bring in a team that requires at least 25,000 a night to stay viable into a territory where the Yanks and Mets already have their claws dug in.

Makes sense.

I think the only viable option at this point is Portland. A good sized city with no other summer team and only one other team period (sorry, I still don't count MLS).

Montreal, as much as I'd love to see it, I just don't see it working out. At least not yet.

[NJTank]

What about Memphis or NOLA?

[bosrs1]

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

When said attendance isn't terrible it most certainly is...

18,000+ a game despite their stadium challenges is not terrible by any measure. We're not talking the 7,500 a game the Expos were getting in 2001 which was and remains truly terrible. That was more than enough justification for moving the Expos. 18,000+ in Tampa is not.

[bosrs1]

What about Memphis or NOLA?

Isn't the Memphis metro area about half the size of their existing one in Tampa? And NOLA is even smaller.

[OnWis97]

There is a one in a billion chance the Rays will move to Jersey, let alone Newark. However, if they do move to Newark I would have to change teams, because I would want them to succeed and thrive in NJ.

Interesting. I would wonder how many Jersey fans would react to that. You've been a Mets fan since the 1980s and I figured it may be hard for you to turn that around (and maybe it would be harder than you think).

But my guess is there may be a lot of people like Tank. After all the Ducks, Clippers, Mets, Angels, A's and maybe even the Devils, Nats, and Ravens all came into areas that probably had a semi-local team that dominated the fandom and they all have fans. It may be a simple as people in Jersey having a much easier time getting to Rays games than Mets games. I certainly think it could be a draw to kids, but I still wonder how easy it would be for adults to just switch from Yanks or Mets to Rays.

All that said, I don't see it happening.

[bosrs1]

There is a one in a billion chance the Rays will move to Jersey, let alone Newark. However, if they do move to Newark I would have to change teams, because I would want them to succeed and thrive in NJ.

Interesting. I would wonder how many Jersey fans would react to that. You've been a Mets fan since the 1980s and I figured it may be hard for you to turn that around (and maybe it would be harder than you think).

But my guess is there may be a lot of people like Tank. After all the Ducks, Clippers, Mets, Angels, A's and maybe even the Devils, Nats, and Ravens all came into areas that probably had a semi-local team that dominated the fandom and they all have fans. It may be a simple as people in Jersey having a much easier time getting to Rays games than Mets games. I certainly think it could be a draw to kids, but I still wonder how easy it would be for adults to just switch from Yanks or Mets to Rays.

All that said, I don't see it happening.

Difference is though that all the teams you list didn't come into areas with their own teams already or came into areas that recently acquired their other teams.

The Ducks formed in Orange County which is literally a world away from LA.

The Mets came into a market that had recently been vacated by two other NL teams leaving scores of Dodgers and Giants fans teamless (they didn't all just jump to the Yankees during the 5 years NYC was w/o NL ball).

The Angels were formed in LA not 3 years after the Dodgers moved in (and indeed the Angels were also a continuation of a brand from the PCL that had existed in LA long before the Dodgers ever showed up) so it's not like everyone had been cemented in as a Dodger fan already. And then to top it off they moved down to Orange County which is essentially its own market a few short years later.

The A's moved into Oakland which again isn't entirely the same market as San Francisco and only did so 10 years after the Giants showed up.

The Nats again don't play in a market that was serviced by an existing team despite Baltimore's TV claim to the area. Indeed DC had 2 of their own teams prior to the Nats.

The Ravens too didn't move into anyone else's market. They in fact filled a big hole left by the Colts years earlier.

The only two you're probably somewhat right on are the Clippers and Devils. And with the Clippers because they came late to another team's obvious market in LA it took them decades to form their own fan base of any significance. And that was only in the last 10 years they really made progress on that. The Devils too aren't exactly an attendance powerhouse and are an occasional move threat because they came into a market already served by a long time historic franchise (the Islanders were probably too distant but they too suffer some of the same problems of the Devils).

If a baseball team came to Northern New Jersey today they'd always be seen as the third fiddle team in the New York area, not as a New Jersey team. And their attendance and TV viewership would suffer accordingly not unlike the Devils and Islanders. I wouldn't be surprised to see a NJ based team quickly fall off in the attendance standings back to near Tampa levels after a few years when the novelty of a new team wears off.

[TheOldRoman]

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

Right. Somebody's got to be last, but the Rays are a very competitive, exciting and young team which has made the playoffs four out of the last six seasons; one which plays in the AL east, meaning a quarter of their home games are against NY or Boston, which gives them a huge bump from those teams' transplant fans coming out. Somebody's got to be last, but it shouldn't be the Rays.

[bosrs1]

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

Right. Somebody's got to be last, but the Rays are a very competitive, exciting and young team which has made the playoffs four out of the last six seasons; one which plays in the AL east, meaning a quarter of their home games are against NY or Boston, which gives them a huge bump from those teams' transplant fans coming out. Somebody's got to be last, but it shouldn't be the Rays.

Given they're still a young franchise, they play in the second dumpiest stadium in the league, and are also distant from the bulk of their fan base in a region that is largely transplants, they're not doing half bad. It takes a generation to develop a dedicated fan base. Particularly in an area that already has fans of other teams. They're not unlike the A's in that regard. And indeed that's why both teams are trying to make similar moves to better locations within their own market which will solve some of their respective problems.

[Lights Out]

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

When said attendance isn't terrible it most certainly is...

18,000+ a game despite their stadium challenges is not terrible by any measure. We're not talking the 7,500 a game the Expos were getting in 2001 which was and remains truly terrible. That was more than enough justification for moving the Expos. 18,000+ in Tampa is not.

18,000 per game for a perennial playoff team with competent management is horrible.

7,500 per game for a franchise that was intentionally sabotaged by Selig and that crook Loria with constant threats of contraction and relocation hanging over them still sucks, but is more understandable.

[rams80]

move them to Indy

[The_Admiral]

Orange County which is literally a world away from LA.

OH NO NOT AGAIN

[bosrs1]

Orange County which is literally a world away from LA.

OH NO NOT AGAIN

What? Anyone who disputes that Orange County is a de-facto separate region from LA both culturally and simply because people from Orange County can't easily get to LA, has obviously never been there.

[The Six]

It's a separate region for sure, but "literally a world away" is a bit over the top.

[bosrs1]

It's a separate region for sure, but "literally a world away" is a bit over the top.

Nitpicking much?

Seriously though, I write a big long post making several salient points in response to another person's and the specificity of the words in one sentence is the part people want to debate most? Particularly when they don't actually dispute the overall theme of said sentence?

[The Six]

The words you choose affect the theme of your sentence, though.

[TheOldRoman]

You know what's literally a world away from LA? Mars.

[Cola]

The Rays just need to move to downtown Tampa and get this whole "what if" thing over with.

Now with that crazy St. Pete mayor out of office, I think some real progress can be made.

The Bolts never have attendance issues downtown in a market (or plainly, a complete region of the US) where hockey isn't exactly the hot topic at the sports bar. They still thrive somehow and I think it is because of the surrounding population and accessibility to all.

Maybe all of this "what if" talk is good and is what the Rays organization wants...maybe it is just a bargaining chip in getting the city of St. Pete to let go and realize this team isn't the St. Pete Rays...it's the Tampa Bay Rays. I have a slight inner conflict in where I do believe a contract should be honored, but this is just getting ridiculous.

I really just think a lot of people outside of the area don't understand how much there is to do around here besides a baseball game or other sporting event. I mean, it is still 80 degrees here during the day...we aren't trapped in our homes from the cold and snow begging for a reason to get out.

[bosrs1]

You know what's literally a world away from LA? Mars.

I thought Mars attacked though... Does that mean they're in Orange County?

The Rays just need to move to downtown Tampa and get this whole "what if" thing over with.

Now with that crazy St. Pete mayor out of office, I think some real progress can be made.

The Bolts never have attendance issues downtown in a market (or plainly, a complete region of the US) where hockey isn't exactly the hot topic at the sports bar. They still thrive somehow and I think it is because of the surrounding population and accessibility to all.

Maybe all of this "what if" talk is good and is what the Rays organization wants...maybe it is just a bargaining chip in getting the city of St. Pete to let go and realize this team isn't the St. Pete Rays...it's the Tampa Bay Rays. I have a slight inner conflict in where I do believe a contract should be honored, but this is just getting ridiculous.

I really just think a lot of people outside of the area don't understand how much there is to do around here besides a baseball game or other sporting event. I mean, it is still 80 degrees here during the day...we aren't trapped in our homes from the cold and snow begging for a reason to get out.

So what you're saying is that Tampa is the east coast answer to San Diego?