Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[rams80]

We've got maybe Charlotte and maybe Montreal east of the continental divide as "plausible" markets.  I think MLB could brick those quite nicely if need be.

[MJWalker45]

2 minutes ago, rams80 said:

We've got maybe Charlotte and maybe Montreal east of the continental divide as "plausible" markets.  I think MLB could brick those quite nicely if need be.

Is Nashville still in play? Apparently that's where people think Cleveland is moving to. 

[GDAWG]

Does Las Vegas need all four Major League teams?

[MJWalker45]

6 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

Does Las Vegas need all four Major League teams?

I think the only reason teams hadn't moved there before now was that the leagues liked to pretend that they were morally opposed to gambling. Now that they all are on board, it make sense to them to park right next to the till. 

24 minutes ago, Walk-Off said:

However, a serious problem with this premise -- and part of the dilemma that Rob Manfred and the overall MLB power structure face when dealing with these two teams' ballpark situations -- is that the A's are free to leave RingCentral Coliseum three years sooner than the Rays are allowed to vacate Tropicana Field.  So, what will happen if, sometime between 2024 and 2027, whatever person or group owns the A's at that time determines that a metropolitan area located east of the Continental Divide, or even someplace that is also east of the Mississippi River, is the best new home for that franchise?  Will Manfred and his minions dare to tell the Athletics' ownership, "Sorry, but the only places where you may move the A's are Las Vegas; Portland, Oregon; Sacramento; Salt Lake City; or Vancouver" and have the gall to say to political and business leaders in that easterly locale, "Sorry, but you'll have to wait till either we expand again or one of our teams in the eastern two-thirds of North America is willing and able to move, whichever comes first" in response to such a situation?

If the Dallas Cowboys can still play in the NFC East and the Colts are in the AFC South, who cares if the Memphis A's are in the AL West? It will make travel a pain for the rest of their division but not so much that they'll have a big impact. The biggest impact would be moving away from their farm teams, which could just as easily change whenever the contracts end. 

[BBTV]

Baseball is by far the hardest sport to start up in a new place.  Besides the stadium cost, you need to try and fill it 81 times, and it's a non-capped league.  It's not like football where every weekend is an event in most places and you can sell out in spite of yourself (even if just because of visiting team fans).

 

I just don't see how MLB succeeds in Las Vegas or anywhere else.  Nashville has a chance, if they build a small stadium like Pittsburgh's and put it somewhere accessible, but places like there that lack the public transportation are at a (self-inflicted) disadvantage.  The Montreal A's is just a silly idea, though jerseys that read "Athlétiques" (or whatever the actual translation is) could be neat.

 

 

[GDAWG]

Is that Las Vegas ballpark expandable to MLB standards?

[FiddySicks]

32 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

Does Las Vegas need all four Major League teams?

Vegas doesn’t need one pro team. 

 

It’s going to be hilarious if they move to Vegas and end up just having the exact same problems they have now (attendance, stadium issues, just an overall lack of interest from the local population). Only now it’ll all be exasperated because the market is smaller and the climate is so much worse. 
 

Remember the contraction talks in the early 2000s? Yeah, they probably should’ve just done that with the A’s. 

[Red Comet]

I always thought the rationale behind Vegas is the increasing trend of fans traveling to see their teams play. Hell, I remember when the Vikings came to Arrowhead and it seemed like a third of the stadium was screaming Skol. In 2019 too, so it wasn't like this was pre-Andy Reid. And that's to a place that is a cow pasture compared to Vegas. So, sports leagues decided to combine Vegas's tourist destination status and gambling and thought it would be a great experiment. I don't get the logic either, but I'm not some big-brained accountant working for a sports league. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Red Comet

[BBTV]

14 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

I always thought the rationale behind Vegas is the increasing trend of fans traveling to see their teams play. Hell, I remember when the Vikings came to Arrowhead and it seemed like a third of the stadium was screaming Skol. In 2019 too, so it wasn't like this was pre-Andy Reid. And that's to a place that is a cow pasture compared to Vegas. So, sports leagues decided to combine Vegas's tourist destination status and gambling and thought it would be a great experiment. I don't get the logic either, but I'm not some big-brained accountant working for a sports league. 

 

That's fine for one game every other Sunday - not for 81 games on every day of the week.  

 

Pro basketball is probably the easiest sport to start up from the ground up - small roster, relatively-modest arena needs, great TV deal reduces the need for gate revenues, and overall, there's just less required.  

 

Pro football is next.  You have much larger stadium/infrastructure worries, larger front office, larger... everything.  But you are almost guaranteed to sell out (even if visiting fans), and you're making money without even selling tickets due to TV.  Expenses are kindasorta capped.

 

Then maybe hockey.  Way more niche than basketball, and more gate is needed.

 

Then baseball.  Unless you're in a hotbed market - and any of those markets already have teams.

[rams80]

49 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

Does Las Vegas need all four Major League teams?

 

No.   It is madness to try and there will be one or more franchises that will not survive the transplant and need to move again if they do try. Metro Vegas is smaller than Portland, Pittsburgh, and Sacramento and slightly bigger than Austin, Cincinnati, and Kansas City.

The smallest 4 sport market is Denver and they have like 700,000 more people than Vegas.

[PrimalCookie]

A's options not named Las Vegas:

Portland - ehhhh I don't think they'd build them a stadium

San Antonio - 2 teams already in Texas

Salt Lake City - too small 

Vancouver - Canada

Nashville/Charlotte - probably the best non-LV options available, but they're not "flashy" cities like LV is

 

I can't see it being anywhere other than Vegas. Sure, they'll "look at other options" (probably Nashville, if I had to guess) in case Nevada isn't willing to fund a 3rd stadium in less than 10 years, but that won't happen. 

 

If nothing else, it's kinda funny that the A's and Raiders will once again be together, but in a different city.

[GDAWG]

13 minutes ago, Magic Dynasty said:

A's options not named Las Vegas:

Portland - ehhhh I don't think they'd build them a stadium

San Antonio - 2 teams already in Texas

Salt Lake City - too small 

Vancouver - Canada

Nashville/Charlotte - probably the best non-LV options available, but they're not "flashy" cities like LV is

 

I can't see it being anywhere other than Vegas. Sure, they'll "look at other options" (probably Nashville, if I had to guess) in case Nevada isn't willing to fund a 3rd stadium in less than 10 years, but that won't happen. 

 

If nothing else, it's kinda funny that the A's and Raiders will once again be together, but in a different city.

 

Vegas already has a minor league stadium that is brand new and opened in 2019, but it's not known if it's expandable to MLB standards.

[DEAD!]

24 minutes ago, Magic Dynasty said:

 

Vancouver - Canada

NOW... There is quality reason for not having a major league baseball team!

 

I want to see the A's threaten to move to Albuquerque.

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, Red Comet said:

I always thought the rationale behind Vegas is the increasing trend of fans traveling to see their teams play.

 

Whoops, a third of the American population is never setting foot on an airplane ever again. They'll have to have a gig worker drop the Athletics off at their doorstep instead.

[rams80]

An MLB team in Albuquerque would be excellent black comedy.  I'm for it.  We need a Seattle Pilots of the 21st Century.

[Dilbert]

From what Ive seen the top places for a team now are Montreal, Nashville, Portland and Las Vegas. Tampa Bay has kinda claimed Montreal already. Las Vegas and Nashville have both built new ballparks. Portland lost its team and ballpark to MLS. At this point if the city/state/provincial government gets involved in funding, Id say Portland has the best shot.

[DnBronc]

2 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Remember the contraction talks in the early 2000s? Yeah, they probably should’ve just done that with the A’s. 

 

They should contract in MLB, NBA, and NHL. Just too many teams.

[Walk-Off]

On 5/11/2021 at 6:09 PM, rams80 said:

We've got maybe Charlotte and maybe Montreal east of the continental divide as "plausible" markets.  I think MLB could brick those quite nicely if need be.

 

Presently, Montréal seems more plausible to me than Charlotte, if only because of an active campaign led by Stephen Bronfman, an heir to the Seagram distillery fortune and the son of the original owner of the Expos.  While Charlotte has been rumored for years as a potential home of an MLB team -- thanks largely to both a metro area with steady population growth and the continued financial pull of the city's banking industry (especially the national juggernaut that is Bank of America) -- I am not aware of any serious, clearly organized movement for an MLB franchise in or near the South's Queen City.  In fact, I dare say that Raleigh has currently the most substantive and most tangible campaign for an MLB club anywhere in North Carolina (replete with a #RaleighOnDeck hashtag) ... even if most of the boosters of that project seem to be local hipsters whose individual and collective net worths are middle-class at best.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 6:13 PM, MJWalker45 said:

Is Nashville still in play? Apparently that's where people think Cleveland is moving to. 

 

Is Nashville still in play?  Hmmm ...

 

https://mlbmusiccity.com

 

https://nashville-stars.myshopify.com

 

https://twitter.com/NashvilleStars

 

https://instagram.com/nashvillestarsbaseball

 

https://facebook.com/NashvilleStarsBaseball

 

As for Cleveland's MLB club moving anywhere, I see two major hurdles:

 

1. Ohio's "Art Modell Law" forces pro sports teams playing at publicly funded venues in that state "to either get agreement from their home town to play most home games elsewhere, or give six months’ notice of their intention to move and allow locals a chance to buy the team."
2. From what I have read, while Cuyahoga County's government is on track to pay off its debt on Progressive Field by the end of the 2023 season, it may not be exactly clear as to whether the Cleveland MLB team would become free to exit its lease of that ballpark at that moment, or would have to wait a certain number of years afterward before being allowed to play home games elsewhere.  If the latter is true, then the Cleveland MLB franchise would be in a predicament much like that of the Tampa Bay Rays, who are still contractually bound to Tropicana Field through the 2027 season even though the City of St. Petersburg's government paid off the debt on that facility a few years ago.

[Dilbert]

1 hour ago, DnBronc said:

 

They should contract in MLB, NBA, and NHL. Just too many teams.

old man yells at cloud

[GDAWG]

Doesn't Portland have Russell Wilson as part of their ownership group?  First of all, that's weird.  If the A's move there and Wilson is part owner of the new group that owns the A's, they would still be in the same division as the Mariners, from Seattle, a place where Wilson is super popular.  Second, why didn't he purchase a small share in the Mariners?