Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[GDAWG]

I read somewhere that A's management will be visiting Las Vegas again next week.

[LMU]

2 hours ago, Walk-Off said:

 

Those tensions between the Oakland and Alameda County governments seemed to have added another chapter yesterday, as multiple members of the AlCo Board of Supervisors indicated that they (a) want a say when it comes to the Athletics' plan for Howard Terminal and (b) want to move at a noticeably slower pace on this matter than do their counterparts at Oakland's city hall.

 

https://newballpark.org/2021/06/15/6-15-alameda-county-board-of-supervisors-meeting-on-howard-terminal/

This is the same reason that the LA Coliseum was such a clusterf*** before USC took over from the "Coliseum Commission." Too many politicians with no management/architecture/finance experience think that their grand vision trumps everyone else's grand vision.

[bosrs1]

4 hours ago, Walk-Off said:

 

Those tensions between the Oakland and Alameda County governments seemed to have added another chapter yesterday, as multiple members of the AlCo Board of Supervisors indicated that they (a) want a say when it comes to the Athletics' plan for Howard Terminal and (b) want to move at a noticeably slower pace on this matter than do their counterparts at Oakland's city hall.

 

https://newballpark.org/2021/06/15/6-15-alameda-county-board-of-supervisors-meeting-on-howard-terminal/

 

I mean what say do they think they're entitled to? It's not county land involved as I understand it or county tax revenues. Plus they expressed a desire to get out of the stadium game pretty definitively and now are having second thoughts? God I hate East Bay politics. 

 

One of the main reasons I became a stronger Padres fans after moving south than I otherwise would have been was I was long past tired of all of the off field bullcrap surrounding the A's, their stadium hunt, their continually cheapskate billionaire owners and indeed their dysfunctional city/county. 

[bosrs1]

2 hours ago, LMU said:

This is the same reason that the LA Coliseum was such a clusterf*** before USC took over from the "Coliseum Commission." Too many politicians with no management/architecture/finance experience think that their grand vision trumps everyone else's grand vision.

 

Microcosm of everything wrong with politics today. Everyone has seemingly forgotten politics is by definition a series of compromises. No one should get everything they want, everyone should have to give and get about half of what they're asking for. But I agree, Oakland/AlCo was on the right track disengaging AlCo from the stadium game. If AlCo wants back in, forget it. The County and City are at such loggerheads lately that I doubt anything would get done, and not in the timetable the A's want. 

 

And yes the A's are already planning a return trip to Vegas. 

 

https://www.8newsnow.com/sports/west-coast-sports/as-making-return-trip-to-las-vegas/

[Red Comet]

Politicians and billionaires are stubborn fools who see compromise in the same light as a 4 letter word that starts with the same letter. More news at 11.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Red Comet

[GDAWG]

Las Vegas if they get the A's: "We are going to make a call to NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and MLS Commissioner Don Garber to ask them to give us teams so that we can have teams in all five major league sports, plus indoor football, WNBA and indoor lacrosse!  We are not longer a minor league city!  We are a major league city and we thank Golden Knights Owner Bill Foley and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman for allowing us to have delusions of grandeur as a major league city!"

[Walk-Off]

7 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

I mean what say do they think they're entitled to? It's not county land involved as I understand it or county tax revenues. Plus they expressed a desire to get out of the stadium game pretty definitively and now are having second thoughts?

 

7 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

Everyone has seemingly forgotten politics is by definition a series of compromises. No one should get everything they want, everyone should have to give and get about half of what they're asking for. But I agree, Oakland/AlCo was on the right track disengaging AlCo from the stadium game. If AlCo wants back in, forget it. The County and City are at such loggerheads lately that I doubt anything would get done, and not in the timetable the A's want.

 

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/06/16/county-to-oakland-not-so-fast-on-that-waterfront-ballpark-tax-plan/

 

https://www.rickeyblog.com/2021/06/16/22-observations-from-the-as-new-stadium-meeting-with-alameda-county-oakland/

 

According to these two articles, the City of Oakland actually requested that the Alameda County Board of Supervisors sign off before the end of this month on a tax district that would help fund the infrastructure improvements needed to facilitate a ballpark and a neighboring mixed-use development at Howard Terminal.  Thus, the AlCo government might be quite justified in wanting the right to have formal input on the A's proposal for Howard Terminal and/or desiring that the process move more slowly.  In other words, Oakland's politicos are apparently dragging their AlCo peers into this issue, and the county's powers-that-be are giving their first obvious bit of pushback.

 

I apologize if I had implied that AlCo's supervisors had made an unprovoked, fully voluntary choice to involve themselves in this project.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Walk-Off
added a link to a second article

[FiddySicks]

Baseball would honestly be better off just contracting the A’s at this point

 

[who do you think]

Too early to speculate about an A's/Rays contraction after the 2027 season?

[spartacat_12]

On 6/16/2021 at 11:26 PM, GDAWG said:

Las Vegas if they get the A's: "We are going to make a call to NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and MLS Commissioner Don Garber to ask them to give us teams so that we can have teams in all five major league sports, plus indoor football, WNBA and indoor lacrosse!  We are not longer a minor league city!  We are a major league city and we thank Golden Knights Owner Bill Foley and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman for allowing us to have delusions of grandeur as a major league city!"

 

The Las Vegas metro area population has doubled in the last 20 years, and is projected to hit 3 million in the next 5 years. It has been one of the world's major entertainment destinations for decades now, and if it weren't for professional sports' puritanical views on gambling, there would have been teams there a long time ago. Whether or not they land a MLB team, I think the NBA is an inevitability.

 

I'd like to see the A's find a solution that keeps them in the Bay Area, but I'm not sure why so many people have issues with Vegas getting professional sports. This isn't that different than LA getting 3 expansion teams & 2 relocated teams in less than 10 years during the late '50s/'60s.

[gosioux76]

35 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

The Las Vegas metro area population has doubled in the last 20 years, and is projected to hit 3 million in the next 5 years. It has been one of the world's major entertainment destinations for decades now, and if it weren't for professional sports' puritanical views on gambling, there would have been teams there a long time ago. Whether or not they land a MLB team, I think the NBA is an inevitability.

 

I'd like to see the A's find a solution that keeps them in the Bay Area, but I'm not sure why so many people have issues with Vegas getting professional sports. This isn't that different than LA getting 3 expansion teams & 2 relocated teams in less than 10 years during the late '50s/'60s.

 

I actually find this all quite interesting. Most of us, I presume, weren't around to watch Los Angeles' rapid growth in the early 20th century. Most of the sentiment around the Dodgers seems rooted in Brooklyn's loss. But I wonder whether there wasn't also this sort of "Los Angeles doesn't deserve pro sports" attitude back then, too? 

 

It's easy to still envision Las Vegas as some sort of backwater novelty, particularly if you're only paying attention at surface level. But @spartacat_12's right: Vegas' rapid population growth, combined with the enormous amount of wealth that floods into that city, has given it a more than sufficient foundation to host multiple professional teams.  And its MSA is already larger than Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Kansas City,  Indianapolis, Cleveland, Nashville, Milwaukee and several other markets that already host more than one pro top-level team.

[FiddySicks]

1 hour ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

The Las Vegas metro area population has doubled in the last 20 years, and is projected to hit 3 million in the next 5 years. It has been one of the world's major entertainment destinations for decades now, and if it weren't for professional sports' puritanical views on gambling, there would have been teams there a long time ago. Whether or not they land a MLB team, I think the NBA is an inevitability.

 

I'd like to see the A's find a solution that keeps them in the Bay Area, but I'm not sure why so many people have issues with Vegas getting professional sports. This isn't that different than LA getting 3 expansion teams & 2 relocated teams in less than 10 years during the late '50s/'60s.

Well, one issue is that, long term, they have no access to water. That’s probably going to be an enormous problem. They’re also centered in one of the most flat broke states in the country. 

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, who do you think said:

Too early to speculate about an A's/Rays contraction after the 2027 season?

 

Players Association isn't going to allow it.

[SFGiants58]

2 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Baseball would honestly be better off just contracting the A’s at this point

 

Honestly, it’s a miracle that the A’s didn’t do a Silver Seven during the ‘30s and fold. The post-29/30 Athletics in Philadelphia were an ugly sight, with Mack opting to cheap out and the team’s fortunes falling apart. This was also in the age before extensive TV deals and sponsorships, which made contraction (along with the St. Louis Browns) much more realistic.

 

There’s an amazing SABR article on the final fall of the Athletics in Philly. Robert D. Washington’s “ Departure Without Dignity: The Athletics Leave Philadelphia” is a must-read for any baseball fan.

[bosrs1]

26 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

 

Players Association isn't going to allow it.

 

Not to mention they're talking expansion right now. They're not going to contract and then expand back to back. If anything they'll forego expansion and just relocate both teams. 

[bosrs1]

3 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Baseball would honestly be better off just contracting the A’s at this point

 

 

Yikes. I was at a USL soccer game last night that nearly topped that in attendance. I'd say, "poor A's" except they've done this to themselves. And it's likely intentional with their near daily reminders that they're looking at Las Vegas to move. And as I expected it's not driving Oakland to want to help them more, rather it's driving Oakland to say, "piss off and don't let the door hit your backside on the way out of town."

[SFGiants58]

4 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Not to mention they're talking expansion right now. They're not going to contract and then expand back to back. If anything they'll forego expansion and just relocate both teams. 

Indeed. Chivas USA was the exception, not the norm.

[MJWalker45]

On 6/16/2021 at 10:26 PM, GDAWG said:

Las Vegas if they get the A's: "We are going to make a call to NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and MLS Commissioner Don Garber to ask them to give us teams so that we can have teams in all five major league sports, plus indoor football, WNBA and indoor lacrosse!  We are not longer a minor league city!  We are a major league city and we thank Golden Knights Owner Bill Foley and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman for allowing us to have delusions of grandeur as a major league city!"

Arena football is arriving next year.

2 hours ago, who do you think said:

Too early to speculate about an A's/Rays contraction after the 2027 season?

 

25 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

 

Players Association isn't going to allow it.

The player's association is why the NL still doesn't have the DH. And if MLB tries to contract a team instead of moving it when they're actually doing better now than they were in 1994 they are going to get raked across the coals. 

2 hours ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

The Las Vegas metro area population has doubled in the last 20 years, and is projected to hit 3 million in the next 5 years. It has been one of the world's major entertainment destinations for decades now, and if it weren't for professional sports' puritanical views on gambling, there would have been teams there a long time ago. Whether or not they land a MLB team, I think the NBA is an inevitability.

 

I'd like to see the A's find a solution that keeps them in the Bay Area, but I'm not sure why so many people have issues with Vegas getting professional sports. This isn't that different than LA getting 3 expansion teams & 2 relocated teams in less than 10 years during the late '50s/'60s.

I think that's the one thing that rubs people raw more than anything else. Phoenix just seemed to pop up as the new city to get everything in the 1990's when the Cardinals and Diamondbacks took root there, even though the Suns had been there for a good bit. Las Vegas seems to be taking on that mantle now. I think if you can get people to show up for hockey, it's possible to get some bleed over into baseball fans as well, but they'll need a dome stadium to do it. I also want to see how well the Raiders do this year with fans finally being able to enter the stadium. 

[MJWalker45]

1 minute ago, SFGiants58 said:

Indeed. Chivas USA was the exception, not the norm.

How crap of an owner do you have to be that Don Garber will stop taking your money?

[bosrs1]

2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Indeed. Chivas USA was the exception, not the norm.

 

Chivas USA was also a mistake from the moment it was announced. One that was such a mistake that the LAFC ownership wanted nothing to do with being linked to it. The A's for all their issues, are still one of the most storied teams in MLB history with over 120 years of history that comes with them.