NFL 2022 Changes

[gosioux76]

13 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

to see the numbers from overhead. And as someone else said how about move the Nike logo to the chest instead?

And you can't tell me the numbers wouldn't fit just fine on the top of the Rams sleeves

 

Are you watching a lot of games from the sky? Just hovering there above the players, maybe attached to one of those camera rigs? 

 

Literally nobody, in today's high-definition world, needs to reference tiny shoulder numbers to identify a player.  Broadcasters aren't suddenly scrambling for help to identify players on the Chargers because the team decided not to shoehorn a needless element onto the shoulders. 

 

And listen, could they fit on some uniforms? Sure, in the tiniest form, perhaps. You could also probably rest a bowl of soup on their shoulders, or a small dog, but you don't because doing so wouldn't make any sense. Just like forcing TV numbers on there. 

[PERRIN]

3 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

Funny when the Jaguars had half gold helmets people hated them. If someone defended those helmets saying they were unique would you say that is a good argument?

Jesus Christ my dude what are you on about? He's saying that teams should try to look less like other teams in the league in terms of color selection by pointing out the number of silver helmets compared to black ones. The Jaguars' ill-fated and deservedly reviled two-tone helmets are unique sure, but they're absolutely abominable. Like we've tried to explain before, unique ≠ good; it's a case-by-case basis. The Panthers silver helmets are inoffensive at worst and at the very least adhere to tradition whilst staying away from over-designed gimmicks. The same cannot be remotely said for those gradient eyesores.

 

2 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

I don't get the argument black is too common. The saints use a gold helmet. Kinda ironic you imply silver makes it more unique considering pewter is pretty darn close to silver. 

How is the Saints' helmet color of any relevance? I was referring strictly to the jerseys when saying Black is overused, especially in the division. Gold looks nothing like silver and sets the Saints apart from the rest of the division. Pewter looks nothing like silver and sets the Buccaneers apart from the division. The two colors aren't even remotely similar in hue or brightness, so I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Emphasizing black in a division full of black defeats the whole purpose of a uniform: to make it so fans and players can tell teams apart.

 

16 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

Why do people here hate TV numbers? To me no tv numbers looks like college not the NFL.

I don't think anyone here necessarily hates them at all. They are simply no longer necessary anymore. In the days of old when camera quality was horrible, fans needed those numbers to help identify players. That's not the case anymore in an age of HD TV's. In college football, many teams started out without TV numbers because - again - they didn't see them necessary. Nowadays, it's fine to have them, but it's one more element to squeeze into a space that's getting smaller by the decade, and it makes perfect sense to get rid of the element that serves the least function. I'd much rather a logo stay than a logo; it gives jerseys a lot more personality and vibrance, in a good way. 

 

19 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

Except NE just used their color rush. The Jets and Falcons had redesigns the same time but kept the TV numbers. 

Purely a matter of preference. If there's room, stick the TV numbers in there. Doesn't make a difference to me. If there isn't room, they should be the first on the list to go. Sure the Bengals or Chargers could add them, but I don't mind the difference either way. I'm glad the Patriots did what the Panthers should and ditched them, because - again - there isn't enough room for them.

 

7 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

Sometimes it feels like people here just like older uniforms and never want change

Well this is - again - a straw man and a half. There's a reason we prefer things leans towards the traditional, because it looks better. I'm always down for mixing traditional and modern elements or going full modern, as long as it looks good. I like uniforms that can break boundaries or use new ideas, as long as it works on a fundamental level. When teams try to go modern by unveiling gradient helmets or ugly number fonts or oversimplified striping or chrome elements, it crosses the line. Such elements overstep the boundaries of the long-standing rules of football aesthetics.

 

As a rule for art in general, no matter whether that's fresco painting or NFL uniform design, you need to know and adhere to the rules, take the time to understand them and why they work first, and only then can you break them in a way that works.

 

That is why all the modern NFL and Arena uniforms you listed as examples fail your own test.

 

That's why the 90s Patriots' uniform work, despite being quite outlandish for the time.

 

And most importantly, that's why everyone here disagrees with you, because you don't understand the rules enough to know when breaking them works and doesn't. 

 

Opinions are opinions, you're entitled to yours. But when you make outlandish claims about how uniforms look, and we disagree with them, it's an indicator - to us - that you simply don't understand the craft enough for your taste to be well-informed.

 

It reminds me of a poignant point from a video essay regarding AI interpolation in animation and how it fundamentally ignores basic principles of animation, explaining that there's a reason that look the way they do:

"I couldn't tell the difference between a 40$ gourmet dinner, and f***ing McDonald's, but if a gourmet chef tells me his burger is better without ketchup, I'm gonna trust him on that."

 

All I'm asking you to do is to hear us out when we explain why some things work and others don't, even if you think "idk man, I just like it better". You'll have a lot more fun here on the boards if you take a humbler approach and listen before diving in guns a-blazing and arguing with everyone here at once.

 

That's all I'm gonna say.

[ripall90]

13 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

Are you watching a lot of games from the sky? Just hovering there above the players, maybe attached to one of those camera rigs? 

 

Literally nobody, in today's high-definition world, needs to reference tiny shoulder numbers to identify a player.  Broadcasters aren't suddenly scrambling for help to identify players on the Chargers because the team decided not to shoehorn a needless element onto the shoulders. 

 

And listen, could they fit on some uniforms? Sure, in the tiniest form, perhaps. You could also probably rest a bowl of soup on their shoulders, or a small dog, but you don't because doing so wouldn't make any sense. Just like forcing TV numbers on there. 

On the Rams uniform there is plenty of space plus no collar stripe. And considering how high up football stadium seats are I'd say they are pretty close to hovering above players.

[ripall90]

@PERRINearlier in the thread I did try to give artistic reasons for why I prefer something and it did not matter. I also just said it FEELS like people prefer older uniforms.

 

It feels like to me you are telling me I do not know enough about football uniforms to have a well thought out opinion. If so fine if that isn't what you mean then fine too. I have my opinions and I'm not going to try change anyone's opinions on anything. Sports are suppose to fun and I don't care what teams wear as long as it looks aesthetically pleasing 

[gosioux76]

11 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

On the Rams uniform there is plenty of space plus no collar stripe. And considering how high up football stadium seats are I'd say they are pretty close to hovering above players.

 

Ok, I'll play along with this argument. 

 

So you're suggesting that someone sitting up in the highest row of SoFi Stadium would somehow be assisted in identifying the players because they would have the tiniest of numbers on their shoulders? 

 

Let me check ... 

[ripall90]

yes

[Sport]

I'm not a mod, but here's some things that I find annoying:

- Taking someone's subjective opinion on football uniforms so personally. 

-  Behaving like your solution is the only correct solution. 

- Strawman arguments. 

- Trying to catch people in some sort of logical contradiction - not every uniform is the same equation and not everything is a 1-to-1 comparison or black & white. Just because something works for Team X doesn't mean I'd like to see it on Teams, A, E, I, O, and U. Just because something works for Teams, A, E, I, O, and U doesn't mean I'd like to see it for Team X.

- Generalizing statements like "People here only like traditional and boring uniforms". 

- edit: downvoting reasonable advice

 

 

[ripall90]

then i am sorry but i dont feel like i have done that stuff tbh

[gosioux76]

2 minutes ago, ripall90 said:

yes

 

You've got great eyes. Superhuman, even. 

[Ridleylash]

When you have giant numbers on the front and back of the jersey, I don't really think anybody needs the teeny little shoulder numbers, to be quite honest. Like, who watching the NFL on TV or close to the action can't see the giant "45" or "13" on either side of the guy's jersey? And like sioux said, it doesn't help at all for people sitting in the nosebleeds anyways.

 

Like, in hockey TV numbers make sense since there's generally a whole lot of real estate on the arms to work with and teams generally put their logos on the front of their jerseys. In football, they aren't really as necessary when you already have much bigger numbers visible on both sides of the jersey.

[FiddySicks]

18 hours ago, ripall90 said:

How is everything a mess? The helmet is amazing 

Early 2010s Boise State ripoff, which everyone thought looked like :censored: back then, too. 

[colinturner95]

6 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Early 2010s Boise State ripoff, which everyone thought looked like back then, too. 

 

me sitting back watching this conversation unfold and loving Boise State's helmets 

[Indigo]

[PERRIN]

3 minutes ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

that's a little bit on the mean-spirited side my guy

[DCarp1231]

Today I learned that @oldschoolvikings isn’t a real person

 

I knew those unusually automated grey facemask responses were questionable

[riccirulesall]

3 hours ago, ripall90 said:

You think THAT is less gimmicky and subtle? I sorely disagree

 

1. Black helmet concepts literally look amazing so I disagree. I can't stand their silver helmet

2. Their jerseys have minimal silver

3. I feel the electric blue is more than enough to uphold the brand. Even the logo dropped the silver outline. Silver does nothing for me. Maybe in small use but the helmet looks better in black than silver.

 

Genuine question, besides removing TV numbers, is there anything that Nike did in the last 20 years that improved a team's uniforms? 

 

yes. gimmicky still but subtler in the sense that it evokes the logo and how the mascot actually looks, in a manner that better adheres to the contours of a football uniform, rather than plastering what looks like a graphic and not actual stripes into spaces that are ill-fitted for such designs, namely the shoulders. also, they are designed to look like the mascot rather than having an action the mascot does to others applied to... the mascots themselves. regardless, both designs are not something the panthers or any other NFL team should be doing.

 

1) that's your opinion but with the logo being mostly black it disappears on the helmet. does it fit a nikespeak theme a la the jaguars' "creeping into the shadows"? sure, but I don't think that's a good justification to essentially hide the logo within the helmet. 

 

2) their jerseys can still be balanced with minimal silver if the colorblocking of black over silver pants is kept intact. could the numbers be silver or outlined in it for more consistency? sure, but it's no dealbreaker. 

 

3) the panthers are a black/electric blue/silver team that mainly uses white for the necessity of away uniforms. silver emphasizes their modern color scheme with sensible design aesthetics. when used on the helmet it becomes a restrained complimentary color rather than a minor accent.  I also think the softness of silver vs white makes the light blue contrast more if the colors are ever to touch

 

3 hours ago, ripall90 said:

Or these nfl uniforms?

Plus the Panthers are one of the youngest team with little history or tradition. Their colors are also non traditional. So I don't it is fair to compare them to the Packers or Cowboys

 

you cited a uniform that is not in use anymore and had a short shelf life aka has not stood the test of time, whose biggest and brashest unique element (giant shoulder logos identical to the helmet logo) also isn't shared by any modern team. and you also cited recent uniform redesigns which bucked trends of conventional style and....? will they stand the test of time? who knows, we haven't lived that long, but I would place large amounts of money on these looks changing when possible and not looked upon as timeless uniforms that should've been kept around. there are some positive elements but as a whole package they are blips on the timeline of NFL uniforms because of poor or over design. maybe the future proves me wrong, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

 

3 hours ago, ripall90 said:

I love how you are acting like everyone agrees with you. Regardless when the Panthers wear their home uniforms sure there is color balance but when they wear white there isn't. 

 

And the shade of silver is ugly. People complain about the Saints gold pants and the Rams previous set under Nike not doing metallic right but here it is okay? Sorry but the gray pants look ugly. I don't think they make the uniforms have more depth. More colors does not make things deeper. There is already a lot of contrast with the black and blue. 

 

which could be alleviated with silver pants when wearing white. the execution could be improved with fabrics but the basic concept is fine, like the idea of the cowboys' silver helmets and pants. or not, I don't see why white over white is unbalanced. plenty of teams wear white jersey and white pants with a deep dark helmet color; silver helmets are closer on the color wheel to white which should make them more balanced if anything. I don't know what you're trying to say with 'deeper' 

 

 

3 hours ago, ripall90 said:

Considering you constantly sideswipe me saying the majority agrees with you, pray tell why don't more teams use silver helmets? And FYI I want the Patriots to switch to white helmets. Silver can work but for the Panthers and Patriots it doesn't. I don't care if every team wears black helmets. Funny when the Jaguars had half gold helmets people hated them. If someone defended those helmets saying they were unique would you say that is a good argument?

 

more teams don't have to switch silver helmets. in fact, between the panthers, cowboys, lions, raiders and patriots, there's quite a few. but the black base of their jersey set them apart from the pats, cowboys and lions, and the the 3 colors sets them apart from the raiders.

 

i'll give you the closeness of the lions and panthers color schemes, but they also prioritize the colors differently and have different enough design elements that they are recognizable as their own. there's only so many (good) color combos to go around, good design should not be thrown away because another team shares it AND uses it differently.

 

color hierarchy and tried and true design elements make them unique AND good despite other similar traits to other teams. but unique does not automatically mean good. I don't think anyone is saying that. if a uniform (god forbid) featured flannel patterns and i don't know... bubble designs, would it be unique? absolutely. but you would be hard pressed to find someone who thinks they are well designed.

 

the whole reason for the argument is that we all agree the panthers at the very least need some tweaks to their uniforms. removing the logo, removing tv numbers or replacing the logo with them, and altering the stripes all tweak and improve already pretty good design while keeping the panthers brand intact, without going over the rails and falling into gimmicky design that falls into the buccaneers clock numbers or jaguars two tone helmet territory.

 

you can enjoy the cat scratch uniforms like I enjoy the mizzou tiger stripe ones. but there is a reason why most teams haven't adopted something like that, and if they do, they do not last long. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WSU151]

3 hours ago, PERRIN said:

The reason other here have compared your statements to Nikespeak is because you're assigning meaning to choices that weren't done with anything in mind. The Panthers original pants striping wasn't supposed to be anything, it just came to a point like was common for pants striping at the time.

 

The Panthers were the first team to have pants striping that came to a point. So no, it wasn't common. 

[DCarp1231]

I keep forgetting the Commanders don’t have TV numbers.

 

I believe the league is trending towards no tv numbers

 

Patriots (2020)

Chargers (2020)

Rams (2020) (numbers on bone only)

Bengals (2021)

Commanders (2022)

 

That may only be 5/32 teams, but it wouldn’t be surprising to see the trend keep rolling with at least one or two teams a year dropping the numbers for the foreseeable future. The Lions have mulled a redesign after this season and they could very well be the next team.

[PERRIN]

10 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

The Panthers were the first team to have pants striping that came to a point. So no, it wasn't common. 

Ah, I stand corrected. I imagine their set and the Broncos rebrand started the trend. Either way, I don't think there was any ulterior messaging behind outside of it looking more edgy.

[Bathysphere]

Okay, this is :censored:ing ridiculous. Whenever ripall90 gets computer time, this whole thread turns into Ripall’s Opinions Bonanza. Not that it’s being helped by other posters responding to everything he says, but, dude: what is your end game in clogging up the NFL Changes 2022 thread with your ideas for what what you like in uniforms, then arguing tooth and nail when people inevitably disagree with you based on 20+ years of discourse that has laid the foundation for this forum’s prevailing convictions?
 

Yes, this board has a long history of dogmatically supporting historical designs over most new aged ones and it has formed into something like a hivemind to the outsider. Yes, you are actually allowed to disagree with the hivemind, which has been done plenty of times before without any fuss. Id like to single out @CaliforniaGlowin, who has been the model for vocally supporting wacko designs and accepting criticism for them with no skin off of his or any other users’ backs.
 

But, disagreeing this LOUDLY, relentlessly clapping back at every single post dissenting from yours, fighting feverishly for Jesse Alkire’s designs like they were your life’s work and this forum is the Shield itself deliberating on whether or not to accept them as the new look of the league, acting as though you bring wisdom from the mythical outside world of what actually makes uniforms “cool,” trying to “gotcha!” other posters as if somebody will finally break and be like “oh, you’re right! That Panthers helmet concept we don’t like *is* just like that one Boise State helmet! It is cool actually!” so you can score a W; it’s bad forum etiquette, it’s obstructing the day to day course of conversation, and it’s getting you NOWHERE.
 

NOBODY is going to change their opinions for you and you refuse to adjust your posting to reflect that. You think you’re posting about the uniforms, but you’re really just posting about YOURSELF. Nobody here who’s lasted longer than two weeks before storming off in a huff throws such long and winded tantrums about what they do and don’t like.  I hate to say it, and I really never wanted to join back in on the piling on after basically starting it because it’s not a pleasant spirit to post in, but it’s just sad at this point how shamelessly unaware you are of how nearly everything you say and how you say it has been documented hundreds and hundreds of times on this website since it’s launch as being the antithesis of how the forum approaches sports uniform discussion. Like, it’s uncanny, as if you know exactly what you’re doing to push other posters’ buttons.
 

This is a place that people come to for DISCUSSION, not ARGUMENTS. If reading the posts here and listening to the opinions that differ from yours angers you to the point that you’re essentially writing novels daily to futilely attempt to make people see your point of view for the absolute fact that you believe it to be, forcing your way into being the focal point of discussion for as long as you’ve posted here, then you would be doing yourself and your blood pressure a huge favor by seeing your way out. You don’t have to be this mad. That is purely up to you. Im sorry that this community is not the place for you to get your personal uniform thoughts off of your chest, though apparently there are plenty of folks in the “real world” who would be pleased to hear you out.

 

If you continue this rate of madposting, then I’ll assume either you’ve learned nothing or you’re a troll. I will similarly challenge other posters to stop replying as the guy is pathologically unable to stop himself from replying back and making himself even more mad. Im just sick of this thread becoming page after page of Ripall90 vs the world, and it isn’t the world’s fault.