Rays seem ready to dump Devil

[powersurge]

The truth hurts, my friend.

The truth hurts.

Lets get back to the solid conversation that brings us all back to this site....

....I don't care how good a team is or how long it has been competitive it all comes down to the stadium. No one can deny that. There have been so many examples in sport where a stadium deal or lack there of has made or broken a franchise in a particular market. New stadiums change your preception of a ball club and their status in their sport. Most recent examples that come to mind are the Arizona Cardinals (NFL), Philadelphia Phillies (MLB) and St. Louis Cardinals (MLB).

In this case, if Tampa or Florida could get a prime baseball stadium built we wouldn't be talking about them in this way. The fact is that they both play in horrible baseball facilities where fans cannot get the true baseball experience. One of the biggest reasons why you go to a ballpark like Wrigley, Fenway, or Camden Yards is because the experience is one of a kind. The teams could be just horrible and you still leave happy because of the wonderful environment.

Just imagine being an 8 year old going to your first baseball game at "The Trop" or "Dolphin Stadium". You'd probably say to yourself "this is it?" You'd become an instant basketball fan.

[BigShoop]

For the love of god, PLEASE stop punishing the new ownership for the old ownership's mistakes. Take a look at what the new ownership has done to the organization in their short tenure, and THEN form your opinion.

You don't need to talk to me about that, you need to talk to Tampa Bay area baseball fans.

New ownership, stadium improvements, same terrible support.

Last year, 29th out of 30. This year so far - 29th out of 30. And the only team below them in this young season is Cleveland, who had weather problems so bad they cancelled or moved seven games.

The proof is in the pudding.

You're right, it IS in the pudding.

'05 avg(Naimoli): 14,052

'06 avg(Sternberg): 16,901

'07 avg(Sternberg): 17,784

Attendance and tv ratings were both up 10% and website hits were up 25%, and corporate sponsorship is up 20%.......for a team that finised with 101 losses.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/14/Business...eliver_ne.shtml

The team has reconfigured it's entire minor league system, added scouting camps in Central and South America(under Naimoli, they had 0....ZERO....international scouts) and beefed up scouting internationally including Japan. (Aki Iwamura, anyone? He didnt come cheap.)

Sternberg's regime negotiated, and locked up Crawford and Baldelli to long term deals in the past 2 offseasons, and Kazmir is next. They have stated on numerous occasions that they are no longer the minor league system for the rest of the league, and have proven so with their actions. Every trade they made bolstered the depth of the organization, giving them "pieces" for when they are buyers at the trade deadline. Whether that be in '07 or '08 is yet to be determined, but what IS determined is that they are no longer sellers.

The hitters are here(check the league hitting rankings), with Longoria and Brignac not here yet...........and the pitchers will be here in September and/or the start of '08.

The team is exciting, and the town is starting to come around. Tampa has ALWAYS been a bandwagon town, but people forget that we're a very young "major sports city". Before 1992, the only team Tampa had was the Bucs, and they couldnt get 30,000 to their games if they gave away tickets for free.

Since '92, Tampa has added the Lightning, Rays, and USF football. The Bucs got good, and the fans jumped on the wagon and havent jumped off yet, despite a few down years. The Lightning got good, the fans jumped on the wagon and are still selling the building out, despite being a 7 and 8 seed the past 2 years. The Rays and USF are pretty much in the same place right now: both have to convince fans to drop their allegiances with other teams. both have more talent than the casual fan realizes and the wagon will be filling up very soon.

As you said yourself, the proof is in the pudding.

As for my point about the Trop over the past 2 years compared to '98-'05:

Post-fieldturf, 2001ish

2003ish-2005

And now 2007:

Notice the catwalk is now painted black. No longer an eyesore, it really blends in when you're sitting in the park, and you dont notice it. Notice the advertisements that cover the concrete, and the decor around them. Notice the brand new scoreboard, and video boards in left and in center fields. Notice the darker green field turf, the newest version of field turf(3rd sports team to install it).

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll...04070474/0/NEWS

http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/catego...bay-devil-rays/

I will admit that the pics I found for the "new Trop" all look very dark, and the old pics look bright. Problem is, in real life, it's exactly opposite! The Trop is significantly brighter and "cozier" than in the past.

On opening night, I looked over at my buddy and said "ya know what, this feels like a real ballpark now. this isnt a baseball field anymore.....its a ballpark."

[Mac the Knife]

Some of the Rays Tampa Bay should consider:

I just found the new logo on USPTO:

Fuhgeddaboutit!

[dahatman]

I'll back you up though. The Rays -- Satanic or not -- don't have a chance of ever being successful. Not in that city and certainly not in that stadium.

By all accounts, the stadium is a terrible drain on the franchise. It's old, ugly and outmoded. Built before the modern ballparks, with all their amenities (and revenue streams). From what I've read, people from Tampa really don't like having to drive over to St. Pete for their baseball games.

It's ironic, because with the pathetic attendance the Devil Rays have had, they would be a prime candidate for relocation. Except for the apparently iron-clad stadium lease, with lots of penalties should they move. And there's obviously no way that St. Petersburg will let them out of the lease early to move to Tampa.

So the thing keeping them in town is the thing holding them down. Ouch.

Has anyone ever BEEN to the stadium? And if you have, have you been in '06 or '07?........

For the love of god, PLEASE stop punishing the new ownership for the old ownership's mistakes. Take a look at what the new ownership has done to the organization in their short tenure, and THEN form your opinion.

I was at the stadium this evening for the first time in 7 years and the difference is noticable. The stadium is brighter, the field plays better and overall experience is better. That being said, in comparison to the other 29 ballparks, it still ranks pretty low but it was also designed and built in the early '80's. The only two complaints in the traffic and the parking. As for the name change, it should be something other than the "Tampa Bay Rays". All I can think about is the old Bud Light commercial with the guys who says "You can call me Ray, You can call me Jay...". The Stringrays, Manta Rays or even the Thunder would be better.

[M59]

The Whatever-They're-Going-To-Be-Called Rays have a chance to be very good in the near future. They have some problems right now, though.

Lack of cash--but that's always going to be a problem.

Lack of pitching.

A tendency to overvalue their own prospects, and a reputation for being hard to deal with.

Their best potential trading partner would be the Orioles, who could use some of what TB has a surplus of, and have some of what TB needs, but also tend to overvalue their own prospects, have a reputation for being hard to deal with, and are in the same division.

I wish them well, I really do...but blue and yellow is going to be a s**t color scheme (neatly landing back on topic).

[timparry]

I'll back you up though. The Rays -- Satanic or not -- don't have a chance of ever being successful. Not in that city and certainly not in that stadium.

By all accounts, the stadium is a terrible drain on the franchise. It's old, ugly and outmoded. Built before the modern ballparks, with all their amenities (and revenue streams). From what I've read, people from Tampa really don't like having to drive over to St. Pete for their baseball games.

It's ironic, because with the pathetic attendance the Devil Rays have had, they would be a prime candidate for relocation. Except for the apparently iron-clad stadium lease, with lots of penalties should they move. And there's obviously no way that St. Petersburg will let them out of the lease early to move to Tampa.

So the thing keeping them in town is the thing holding them down. Ouch.

Didn't the same thing happen to Alfalfa, when he was stuck singing opera for that mean guy?

"I'm the Barber of Seville... Fi-Ga-Ro!"

[rams80]

I'll back you up though. The Rays -- Satanic or not -- don't have a chance of ever being successful. Not in that city and certainly not in that stadium.

By all accounts, the stadium is a terrible drain on the franchise. It's old, ugly and outmoded. Built before the modern ballparks, with all their amenities (and revenue streams). From what I've read, people from Tampa really don't like having to drive over to St. Pete for their baseball games.

It's ironic, because with the pathetic attendance the Devil Rays have had, they would be a prime candidate for relocation. Except for the apparently iron-clad stadium lease, with lots of penalties should they move. And there's obviously no way that St. Petersburg will let them out of the lease early to move to Tampa.

So the thing keeping them in town is the thing holding them down. Ouch.

Has anyone ever BEEN to the stadium? And if you have, have you been in '06 or '07?........

For the love of god, PLEASE stop punishing the new ownership for the old ownership's mistakes. Take a look at what the new ownership has done to the organization in their short tenure, and THEN form your opinion.

I was at the stadium this evening for the first time in 7 years and the difference is noticable. The stadium is brighter, the field plays better and overall experience is better. That being said, in comparison to the other 29 ballparks, it still ranks pretty low but it was also designed and built in the early '80's. The only two complaints in the traffic and the parking. As for the name change, it should be something other than the "Tampa Bay Rays". All I can think about is the old Bud Light commercial with the guys who says "You can call me Ray, You can call me Jay...". The Stringrays, Manta Rays or even the Thunder would be better.

St. Petersburg Thunder Rayzz of Tampa Bay?

[So_Fla]

Great Caesar's Ghost, I thought Brewers fans were defensive....

Let's just face it folks, Gothamite hates everything about the Tampa Bay area and there is no changing his mind. Because every time that Tampa Bay anything is brought up, he sticks his ant-Bay opinion into it.

Well, he might like a small part of it because the Yankees have Spring Training and a complex there.

[timparry]

I'll back you up though. The Rays -- Satanic or not -- don't have a chance of ever being successful. Not in that city and certainly not in that stadium.

By all accounts, the stadium is a terrible drain on the franchise. It's old, ugly and outmoded. Built before the modern ballparks, with all their amenities (and revenue streams). From what I've read, people from Tampa really don't like having to drive over to St. Pete for their baseball games.

It's ironic, because with the pathetic attendance the Devil Rays have had, they would be a prime candidate for relocation. Except for the apparently iron-clad stadium lease, with lots of penalties should they move. And there's obviously no way that St. Petersburg will let them out of the lease early to move to Tampa.

So the thing keeping them in town is the thing holding them down. Ouch.

Has anyone ever BEEN to the stadium? And if you have, have you been in '06 or '07?........

For the love of god, PLEASE stop punishing the new ownership for the old ownership's mistakes. Take a look at what the new ownership has done to the organization in their short tenure, and THEN form your opinion.

I was at the stadium this evening for the first time in 7 years and the difference is noticable. The stadium is brighter, the field plays better and overall experience is better. That being said, in comparison to the other 29 ballparks, it still ranks pretty low but it was also designed and built in the early '80's. The only two complaints in the traffic and the parking. As for the name change, it should be something other than the "Tampa Bay Rays". All I can think about is the old Bud Light commercial with the guys who says "You can call me Ray, You can call me Jay...". The Stringrays, Manta Rays or even the Thunder would be better.

They could wear zoot suits and tell the umpires, "but ya doesn't hafta call me Devil Rays."

[VitaminD]

Just imagine being an 8 year old going to your first baseball game at "The Trop" or "Dolphin Stadium". You'd probably say to yourself "this is it?" You'd become an instant basketball fan.

One thousand percent FALSE. And any baseball fan in the Delaware Valley who saw their first game before 2004 would agree with me. My first ballpark experience was Veterans Stadium - and that was before the renovations in '95, which didn't do all that much. When the team was good, no one cared the park was a dump. People showed up to watch good baseball. The Rays have been saddled with one setback after another since their inception: bad ownership, bad uniforms (gradients?), bad players, bad facility. But it looks like they're finally on the right track; getting people to abandon their love of a team that only plays there in March for the local nine is the next trick, but it can be done.

Now, I'm going to try turning this back into a uniform-related thread. In a microcosm of the general history of the team, the Rays finally have a solid look. Green/blue and black is a good look, and while I like the idea of going athletic gold/blue, I'd like to see them try something along the lines of what pantone has suggested - a lighter blue, and a slightly lighter green, between the forest they use now and the A's kelly green from the late '70s/early '80s before they darkened. It can work if done correctly; see Tulane's uniforms for what I mean. It would make a nice look that makes one think of being outdoors in Florida, even if the games are stuck in a dome. I'd also like to see them bust out some green helmets to match the field caps; I've never understood why the helmets are black while they wear green in the field.

[Gothamite]

'05 avg(Naimoli): 14,052

'06 avg(Sternberg): 16,901

'07 avg(Sternberg): 17,784

Attendance and tv ratings were both up 10% and website hits were up 25%, and corporate sponsorship is up 20%.......for a team that finised with 101 losses.

You're right - the average is up. But it's also up all across the majors. The Devil Rays are keeping pace, but keeping pace is not enough for the 29th-best selling franchise.

I do like the improvements he made to the park. Looks much better.

Great Caesar's Ghost, I thought Brewers fans were defensive....

Let's just face it folks, Gothamite hates everything about the Tampa Bay area and there is no changing his mind. Because every time that Tampa Bay anything is brought up, he sticks his ant-Bay opinion into it.

Well, he might like a small part of it because the Yankees have Spring Training and a complex there.

I know that it's easy to take personal shots (and convenient when someone need to distract from the topic at hand), but you're dead wrong.

I think the Bucs are one of the best-looking teams in the NFL, and hands-down win the "most improved" award for their overhaul - nobody else even close. I have said so on many occassions. But don't let that stop you....

[McCall]

....I don't care how good a team is or how long it has been competitive it all comes down to the stadium. No one can deny that. There have been so many examples in sport where a stadium deal or lack there of has made or broken a franchise in a particular market. New stadiums change your preception of a ball club and their status in their sport. Most recent examples that come to mind are the Arizona Cardinals (NFL), Philadelphia Phillies (MLB) and St. Louis Cardinals (MLB).

The New Busch Stadium did not make the Cardinals. They were a great team in both the old and the new one (this season, so far, aside ). People loved and flocked to the old Busch. We just came to terms with the fact that it was time for a new one.

[Gothamite]

Yeah - as much as I hate the Cardinals (and make no mistake, that is a franchise I hate), I am afraid that I must agree.

[powersurge]

oops! double post

[TBGKon]

Just imagine being an 8 year old going to your first baseball game at "The Trop" or "Dolphin Stadium". You'd probably say to yourself "this is it?" You'd become an instant basketball fan.

When the team was good, no one cared the park was a dump. People showed up to watch good baseball.

Exactly the reason why I think baseball in Tampa is in deep trouble. The level of gameplay has been consistently bad and although they're onto a good start this year its going to take alot for them to establish themselves.

Look, I'm not a fan of relocation. I'm actually pretty dead set against relocation unless all options have been exhausted. I don't think all options have yet been exhausted with the Rays yet. I still think they can pull themselves out of the rut they've been in their entire exhistence.

But if the level of gameplay isn't there, and the stadium is horrible then you've got two big strikes against you. What else are the fans coming out to the ballpark to see? The Yankees, Red Sox and all other visiting ballclubs thats what. Its where the Marlins have been at for years. Its a sad place to be as a franchise when you sellout the majority of your seats because of the opposing ballclub and not the hometeam. When I lived in Florida circa 2003 Marlins WS Chamionship year they couldn't GIVE away tickets through most of the year. Going to a game was a joke and the team was pretty good. It wasn't till they hit their stride in the playoffs that fans came out to watch and it even wasn't till the NLCS that they sold out the place regularly. Now look at where they are.

I just don't know why the Rays haven't ripped the roof off the place yet. I guess partly because of money and because of losing major indoor sporting events.

- The gameplay of the Rays has steadily increased, especially this season. Rays fans have always heard about studs such as Delmon Young, Elijah Dukes, and BJ Upton, and have been told "wait till they all show up". Well now is that year and we're actually playing some decent offensive baseball. As of right now, our pitching staff isnt so hot, but there is a deep lineup of guys down in AAA Durham just waiting to come up to the majors. I also have a feeling that this upcoming offseason will be the Year of the Ray, you'll see soon enough.

- What would tearing offf the roof of the Trop do other than make ourdoor baseball? It sure would make one decent stadium look even worse. Sure, the Trop is a dome, but things like them are needed in Florida where afternoon rainstorms occur like clockwork over the summer. Without the roof, the Rays would have many more rainout games, probably as many as the Marlins do down in South Florida.

[powersurge]

Just imagine being an 8 year old going to your first baseball game at "The Trop" or "Dolphin Stadium". You'd probably say to yourself "this is it?" You'd become an instant basketball fan.

When the team was good, no one cared the park was a dump. People showed up to watch good baseball.

Exactly the reason why I think baseball in Tampa is in deep trouble. The level of gameplay has been consistently bad and although they're onto a good start this year its going to take alot for them to establish themselves.

Look, I'm not a fan of relocation. I'm actually pretty dead set against relocation unless all options have been exhausted. I don't think all options have yet been exhausted with the Rays yet. I still think they can pull themselves out of the rut they've been in their entire exhistence.

But if the level of gameplay isn't there, and the stadium is horrible then you've got two big strikes against you. Who else are the fans coming out to the ballpark to see? The Yankees and Red Sox thats who. Its where the Marlins have been at for years. Its a sad place to be as a franchise when you sellout the majority of your seats because of the opposing ballclub and not the hometeam. When I lived in Florida circa 2003 Marlins WS Chamionship year they couldn't GIVE away tickets through most of the year. Going to a game was a joke and the team was pretty good. It wasn't till they hit their stride in the playoffs that fans came out to watch and it even wasn't till the NLCS that they sold out the place regularly. Now look at where they are.

I just don't know why the Rays haven't ripped the roof off the place yet. I guess partly because of money and because of losing major indoor sporting events.

Just imagine being an 8 year old going to your first baseball game at "The Trop" or "Dolphin Stadium". You'd probably say to yourself "this is it?" You'd become an instant basketball fan.

When the team was good, no one cared the park was a dump. People showed up to watch good baseball.

Exactly the reason why I think baseball in Tampa is in deep trouble. The level of gameplay has been consistently bad and although they're onto a good start this year its going to take alot for them to establish themselves.

Look, I'm not a fan of relocation. I'm actually pretty dead set against relocation unless all options have been exhausted. I don't think all options have yet been exhausted with the Rays yet. I still think they can pull themselves out of the rut they've been in their entire exhistence.

But if the level of gameplay isn't there, and the stadium is horrible then you've got two big strikes against you. What else are the fans coming out to the ballpark to see? The Yankees, Red Sox and all other visiting ballclubs thats what. Its where the Marlins have been at for years. Its a sad place to be as a franchise when you sellout the majority of your seats because of the opposing ballclub and not the hometeam. When I lived in Florida circa 2003 Marlins WS Chamionship year they couldn't GIVE away tickets through most of the year. Going to a game was a joke and the team was pretty good. It wasn't till they hit their stride in the playoffs that fans came out to watch and it even wasn't till the NLCS that they sold out the place regularly. Now look at where they are.

I just don't know why the Rays haven't ripped the roof off the place yet. I guess partly because of money and because of losing major indoor sporting events.

- What would tearing offf the roof of the Trop do other than make ourdoor baseball? It sure would make one decent stadium look even worse. Sure, the Trop is a dome, but things like them are needed in Florida where afternoon rainstorms occur like clockwork over the summer. Without the roof, the Rays would have many more rainout games, probably as many as the Marlins do down in South Florida.

I think the point I was making about the roof is to let the sunshine into the stadium and increase the game exprience. I agree there might be a few more rainouts but if you've ever watched a game outside in the beautiful Florida sun it almost seems sacriledge to go indoors to watch a game. The best solution would be a retractible roof dome that still looks like a baseball stadium with or without the roof cover (i.e. Safeco) Good luck trying to find enough private investors or local tax dollars to fund that project.

I actually don't think the city would let them rip the roof off anyway. The city has invested too much into the dome that to relegate it to just a baseball park for a team that may or may not want to bolt to a state of the art stadium might not be the smartest idea.

[Fjm]

Don't disregard the weather. I used to live in Florida, albeit the east coast, but it's REALLY hot down there every day in the summer. Sitting outside with the sun beating down on you for 3 hours is not fun. Have you ever been to a baseball game on the hottest day of the year, and you felt so miserable you left a little early? That's what it's like almost every day in Florida.

A dome obviously takes away from the beauty of a ballpark, but when it's 95 degrees out you'll be more likely to give that up and accept that air conditioning.

Plus it rains a lot.

Winning=more fans.

[powersurge]

Don't disregard the weather. I used to live in Florida, albeit the east coast, but it's REALLY hot down there every day in the summer. Sitting outside with the sun beating down on you for 3 hours is not fun. Have you ever been to a baseball game on the hottest day of the year, and you felt so miserable you left a little early? That's what it's like almost every day in Florida.

A dome obviously takes away from the beauty of a ballpark, but when it's 95 degrees out you'll be more likely to give that up and accept that air conditioning.

Plus it rains a lot.

Winning=more fans.

I lived just outside of Ft. Lauderdale for a while and although the weather can be very hot and sometimes brutal down there, it is not quite the same thing in Tampa once the peak summer months end. Its actually a really nice and pleasant place to be. Plus, when you let the sun in you get some better views at the ballpark (i.e. bikinis ) The Marlins drew some of the best looking people on the planet to the ballpark! That can't be all that bad

[Fjm]

Don't disregard the weather. I used to live in Florida, albeit the east coast, but it's REALLY hot down there every day in the summer. Sitting outside with the sun beating down on you for 3 hours is not fun. Have you ever been to a baseball game on the hottest day of the year, and you felt so miserable you left a little early? That's what it's like almost every day in Florida.

A dome obviously takes away from the beauty of a ballpark, but when it's 95 degrees out you'll be more likely to give that up and accept that air conditioning.

Plus it rains a lot.

Winning=more fans.

I lived just outside of Ft. Lauderdale for a while and although the weather can be very hot and sometimes brutal down there, it is not quite the same thing in Tampa once the peak summer months end. Its actually a really nice and pleasant place to be. Plus, when you let the sun in you get some better views at the ballpark (i.e. bikinis ) The Marlins drew some of the best looking people on the planet to the ballpark! That can't be all that bad

But when do the peak summer months end? September?

Someone just mentioned it, the best way to go for them is a retractable roof. If anyone should have it, it's them. Or Florida/Miami. Or Minnesota.

[Gothamite]

Apparently they considered a retractable roof when they built it, but decided that it was too untried (it would have been, what, the second in the majors?) and too expensive for a spec stadium.