2007-08 NHL Season Thread

[Shane Does Art]

My family has had Pens season tickets for 15 years. I moved to Indianapolis a year ago. How is this the season that I haven't been to a game all year?! However, I am getting married on the 31st, possibly the best night ever, I get married and the Pens might be playing for the cup. Now that is a great night!

I hope you'll have the game playing, because if there are going to be other Pens fans there, they're going to be pissed...

Well my faith is with the Red Wings now, though I have a bad feeling the Penguins will win.

[TFoA]

This might be good for the NHL, if only because it means that the media is actually going to pay attention to hockey for a change.

[Neon_Matrix]

Well, I can't stay out of this forever...

Listen Matrix, teams that have won the Cup zero times (the present incarnation of the Senators included) are all "loser" organizations. That being said, there is a whole system used to rank teams in an NHL season. Are you just going to ignore that because it makes your precious Leafs look bad? I'm sorry, but a team that goes to the first round or second round or whatever is better than a team that finishes in the basement. A 3 year old could understand that. Even in the case where 2 teams have never won the cup are to be judged one agianst the other, you can look to their performance on a year to year basis and figure out that one team has had a better performance than some other team.

In a fan's mind, there is more to the history of a team than just winning the Cup. Fans remember the good seasons & the bad seasons not based on the ability to win it all, but on the quality of the hockey that was played. You can't clump all the seasons where you're team didn't win the Stanley Cup as bad seasons, because in a 30 team league, you are not going to win it all every year. So what we do is enjoy the seasons where we think the team played well and label those as good seasons. Likewise, we complain about the seasons where we think the team under-acheived and label those as bad seasons. If you can't understand that, you are not a hockey fan.

Look, I agree with what you are saying. Some seasons can be more successful than others, such as you make the playoffs or you dont. But in the end, if you don't win it all, you lost. This is something that neither of you seem to be getting. I'm not doing a "Leafs vs Sens" thing at all which both you and Shanurr seem to be forcing. In general, teams which don't hoist the cup are losing teams. Fundementally, all 29 losing teams are on the same level in regards to the fact they didn't win. Doesn't matter if you made it to the finals or were the team with the lowest points total, you still didn't win the cup.

It doesn't matter if your team makes it to the playoffs 10 years in a row and you have never made it to the finals, it isn't enough to just want to make the playoffs as it seems to be with some teams (cough Leafs cough) but to want to do it all, and if you don't win it all, you lose. The best team wins, the others just have to wait for the next chance to try and win it all.

People play the game to win the Cup, not to just make the playoffs and say they are successful. You aren't successful unless you win. You can't say you are successful just because you place 5th on a consistent basis in an Olympic event. Success is judged on winning, and winning the Stanley Cup is what shows success, not playoffs appearences nor regular season points totals. If that were true, wouldn't Montreal still be playing at the moment?

And Korbyn, make it two 100% correct statements - I was right about Dallas losing it in 4.

Well, will be right very soon.

[Brass]

What are you talking about? I have criticized my team countless times, I obviously realize they aren't as good as before, I thought this season towards the end was more of a slump, I was wrong.

I AGREE that it only matters if you win a cup, BUT AGAIN to say that if a team goes to the finals and loses they are in the same level as the bottom feeders is :censored:ing stupid of you. Yes the Senators are losers for not being able to win a cup in their 15 years, but to say they are just as much of a loser as a team who hasn't been able to win the cup in 40 years, just doesn't make sense.

And stop making it seem like I'm a :censored:ing 12 year-old when it comes to supporting my team, I fully recognize the ability of my team, and I understand that they're not in a league of their own, and I feel I recognize that a lot more than most people do.

I'm unwilling to accept that the Sens can be mentioned in the same category as teams like the Leafs. Because I don't believe that that's true. When in 15 years you do something a team hasn't in 40, I feel that the team who did it in 15 is better.

Take the time to read what I am saying. I am not comparing them just to the Leafs, but every team which is not the one who won the Cup.

You are a loser when you don't win anything besides being known as the team who lost the Cup Finals. I don't think that is such an honour. You go in to win it all or you win nothing, just like the other 28 teams in the league who are in the same boat as you. You don't seem to be getting the underlaying point that the opposite of winning is losing, and when you don't win you're a loser. It doesn't matter if you lost before the playoffs or during, you still "lost". Thats what I am getting at and you are unwilling to accept.

Look at it this way.

Los Angeles Kings - did not win the cup.

Florida Panthers - did not win the cup.

New Jersey Devils - did not win the cup.

Vancouver Canucks - did not win the cup.

Ottawa Senators - did not win the cup.

See a pattern there?

Getting close isn't good enough. You either win it or you don't. There is no second place like I have said many times. Ultimately every team has the same chance to compete and win for the Cup, the Playoffs just shows which of the teams should be given a better chance to win it and in the end only one team wins. Just because you're not willing to accept the Sens or Panthers or Coyotes can be mentioned in the same sentence does not make my statement incorrect. They all didn't win, they all are losers in the same competition where they were all given an equal shot to compete but failed.

Neon_Matrix is 100% correct. Their is only one team that wins the Stanley Cup. Doesn't matter whether you were 2nd or 30th, you didn't win the Cup. Simple as that.

[ZapRowsdower8]

My family has had Pens season tickets for 15 years. I moved to Indianapolis a year ago. How is this the season that I haven't been to a game all year?! However, I am getting married on the 31st, possibly the best night ever, I get married and the Pens might be playing for the cup. Now that is a great night!

I hope you'll have the game playing, because if there are going to be other Pens fans there, they're going to be pissed...

Well my faith is with the Red Wings now, though I have a bad feeling the Penguins will win.

My brother thinks that game three (if they play Det.) will be the night of the rehearsal dinner, thereby screwing them out of the opportunity to finally see a Cup Finals game live. I'm getting married in South Bend, IN (bride's hometown) but you better believe that the game we be on and all of my Pittsburgh family and friends will be glued to the television in between schmoozing with the new in-laws.

[Neon_Matrix]

What are you talking about? I have criticized my team countless times, I obviously realize they aren't as good as before, I thought this season towards the end was more of a slump, I was wrong.

I AGREE that it only matters if you win a cup, BUT AGAIN to say that if a team goes to the finals and loses they are in the same level as the bottom feeders is :censored:ing stupid of you. Yes the Senators are losers for not being able to win a cup in their 15 years, but to say they are just as much of a loser as a team who hasn't been able to win the cup in 40 years, just doesn't make sense.

And stop making it seem like I'm a :censored:ing 12 year-old when it comes to supporting my team, I fully recognize the ability of my team, and I understand that they're not in a league of their own, and I feel I recognize that a lot more than most people do.

I'm unwilling to accept that the Sens can be mentioned in the same category as teams like the Leafs. Because I don't believe that that's true. When in 15 years you do something a team hasn't in 40, I feel that the team who did it in 15 is better.

Take the time to read what I am saying. I am not comparing them just to the Leafs, but every team which is not the one who won the Cup.

You are a loser when you don't win anything besides being known as the team who lost the Cup Finals. I don't think that is such an honour. You go in to win it all or you win nothing, just like the other 28 teams in the league who are in the same boat as you. You don't seem to be getting the underlaying point that the opposite of winning is losing, and when you don't win you're a loser. It doesn't matter if you lost before the playoffs or during, you still "lost". Thats what I am getting at and you are unwilling to accept.

Look at it this way.

Los Angeles Kings - did not win the cup.

Florida Panthers - did not win the cup.

New Jersey Devils - did not win the cup.

Vancouver Canucks - did not win the cup.

Ottawa Senators - did not win the cup.

See a pattern there?

Getting close isn't good enough. You either win it or you don't. There is no second place like I have said many times. Ultimately every team has the same chance to compete and win for the Cup, the Playoffs just shows which of the teams should be given a better chance to win it and in the end only one team wins. Just because you're not willing to accept the Sens or Panthers or Coyotes can be mentioned in the same sentence does not make my statement incorrect. They all didn't win, they all are losers in the same competition where they were all given an equal shot to compete but failed.

Neon_Matrix is 100% correct. Their is only one team that wins the Stanley Cup. Doesn't matter whether you were 2nd or 30th, you didn't win the Cup. Simple as that.

I'm glad someone sees what I'm getting at.

[Shane Does Art]

What are you talking about? I have criticized my team countless times, I obviously realize they aren't as good as before, I thought this season towards the end was more of a slump, I was wrong.

I AGREE that it only matters if you win a cup, BUT AGAIN to say that if a team goes to the finals and loses they are in the same level as the bottom feeders is :censored:ing stupid of you. Yes the Senators are losers for not being able to win a cup in their 15 years, but to say they are just as much of a loser as a team who hasn't been able to win the cup in 40 years, just doesn't make sense.

And stop making it seem like I'm a :censored:ing 12 year-old when it comes to supporting my team, I fully recognize the ability of my team, and I understand that they're not in a league of their own, and I feel I recognize that a lot more than most people do.

I'm unwilling to accept that the Sens can be mentioned in the same category as teams like the Leafs. Because I don't believe that that's true. When in 15 years you do something a team hasn't in 40, I feel that the team who did it in 15 is better.

Take the time to read what I am saying. I am not comparing them just to the Leafs, but every team which is not the one who won the Cup.

You are a loser when you don't win anything besides being known as the team who lost the Cup Finals. I don't think that is such an honour. You go in to win it all or you win nothing, just like the other 28 teams in the league who are in the same boat as you. You don't seem to be getting the underlaying point that the opposite of winning is losing, and when you don't win you're a loser. It doesn't matter if you lost before the playoffs or during, you still "lost". Thats what I am getting at and you are unwilling to accept.

Look at it this way.

Los Angeles Kings - did not win the cup.

Florida Panthers - did not win the cup.

New Jersey Devils - did not win the cup.

Vancouver Canucks - did not win the cup.

Ottawa Senators - did not win the cup.

See a pattern there?

Getting close isn't good enough. You either win it or you don't. There is no second place like I have said many times. Ultimately every team has the same chance to compete and win for the Cup, the Playoffs just shows which of the teams should be given a better chance to win it and in the end only one team wins. Just because you're not willing to accept the Sens or Panthers or Coyotes can be mentioned in the same sentence does not make my statement incorrect. They all didn't win, they all are losers in the same competition where they were all given an equal shot to compete but failed.

Neon_Matrix is 100% correct. Their is only one team that wins the Stanley Cup. Doesn't matter whether you were 2nd or 30th, you didn't win the Cup. Simple as that.

Did you even read what I'm saying?

I agree that there is one winner, but to say that a team who came very close to the finals or who had success in the playoffs are at the same level as a team who hasn't had success in the playoffs and some teams who haven't even made the playoffs in the longest time. THAT is the point I am making.

[SenatorJake]

What are you talking about? I have criticized my team countless times, I obviously realize they aren't as good as before, I thought this season towards the end was more of a slump, I was wrong.

I AGREE that it only matters if you win a cup, BUT AGAIN to say that if a team goes to the finals and loses they are in the same level as the bottom feeders is :censored:ing stupid of you. Yes the Senators are losers for not being able to win a cup in their 15 years, but to say they are just as much of a loser as a team who hasn't been able to win the cup in 40 years, just doesn't make sense.

And stop making it seem like I'm a :censored:ing 12 year-old when it comes to supporting my team, I fully recognize the ability of my team, and I understand that they're not in a league of their own, and I feel I recognize that a lot more than most people do.

I'm unwilling to accept that the Sens can be mentioned in the same category as teams like the Leafs. Because I don't believe that that's true. When in 15 years you do something a team hasn't in 40, I feel that the team who did it in 15 is better.

Take the time to read what I am saying. I am not comparing them just to the Leafs, but every team which is not the one who won the Cup.

You are a loser when you don't win anything besides being known as the team who lost the Cup Finals. I don't think that is such an honour. You go in to win it all or you win nothing, just like the other 28 teams in the league who are in the same boat as you. You don't seem to be getting the underlaying point that the opposite of winning is losing, and when you don't win you're a loser. It doesn't matter if you lost before the playoffs or during, you still "lost". Thats what I am getting at and you are unwilling to accept.

Look at it this way.

Los Angeles Kings - did not win the cup.

Florida Panthers - did not win the cup.

New Jersey Devils - did not win the cup.

Vancouver Canucks - did not win the cup.

Ottawa Senators - did not win the cup.

See a pattern there?

Getting close isn't good enough. You either win it or you don't. There is no second place like I have said many times. Ultimately every team has the same chance to compete and win for the Cup, the Playoffs just shows which of the teams should be given a better chance to win it and in the end only one team wins. Just because you're not willing to accept the Sens or Panthers or Coyotes can be mentioned in the same sentence does not make my statement incorrect. They all didn't win, they all are losers in the same competition where they were all given an equal shot to compete but failed.

Neon_Matrix is 100% correct. Their is only one team that wins the Stanley Cup. Doesn't matter whether you were 2nd or 30th, you didn't win the Cup. Simple as that.

I'm glad someone sees what I'm getting at.

Well then, in that case, I'm sure LA Kings fans will look back at this season as fondly as Dallas Stars or Montreal Canadiens fans will. <----- SARCASM

[BBTV]

So why cheer at all unless it's the clinching game of the Stanley Cup? You're just cheering what is probably a futile effort. I sure didn't cheer when the Flyers won game 5 vs. MTL, because all that did was bring them closer to their inevitable failure.

[Neon_Matrix]

So why cheer at all unless it's the clinching game of the Stanley Cup? You're just cheering what is probably a futile effort. I sure didn't cheer when the Flyers won game 5 vs. MTL, because all that did was bring them closer to their inevitable failure.

Look, did St. Louis fans look back on their 30 straight years of making the playoffs as a success? Well, they never once won the cup during that time. Ultimately, I'd see that as a failure, sure its nice to have a chance but when you can't capitalize, it sucks.

I'm not saying you shouldn't stand behind your team and support them, I'm having a lot of fun poking fun at Korbyn who was so confident that Dallas would sweep away the President Trophy winners who were well rested and a very strong and consistent (SHOCK) team. If they win the Cup, then the past 6 years of failures in the post season will be made up for in a way (well, apart from their old coach losing his job), BUT if they don't win this year and regress over the next few years, then it can be seen as a failure.

It isn't wrong to cheer your team but if in the end they don't win, they have ultimately lost just like all the other teams which aren't the one who got to go home with the Cup.

[-kj]

I'd say we saw it as a sign that, despite reaching the top, the team was in the race.

I don't see the season as "win the Cup or your season has all been failure." Let's face fact--were the Blues to have made the playoffs this year, I would have counted that as a success when compared to the last couple seasons.

I suppose in Toronto, you're spoiled on Cup success, but not all teams see their season as a complete failure when their team fails to lift the cup. If that were the case, twenty-nine coaches would be fired every year.

[Sport]

This has been one of the most boring Stanley cup playoffs in my memory. Anyone agree? Save the flames-sharks, caps/flyers series and the quad-overtime in dallas I've been snoozing through this playoff season and especially the conference finals. Hopefully that means that Red Wings-Penguins will be really memorable.

[Shane Does Art]

I'd say we saw it as a sign that, despite reaching the top, the team was in the race.

I don't see the season as "win the Cup or your season has all been failure." Let's face fact--were the Blues to have made the playoffs this year, I would have counted that as a success when compared to the last couple seasons.

I suppose in Toronto, you're spoiled on Cup success, but not all teams see their season as a complete failure when their team fails to lift the cup. If that were the case, twenty-nine coaches would be fired every year.

THANK YOU!

And I was going to say something about how I found these playoffs not as exciting as last year's or the years before, but I thought maybe it was because of my team's early exit.

[SenatorJake]

This has been one of the most boring Stanley cup playoffs in my memory. Anyone agree? Save the flames-sharks, caps/flyers series and the quad-overtime in dallas I've been snoozing through this playoff season and especially the conference finals. Hopefully that means that Red Wings-Penguins will be really memorable.

Yeah, there haven't been that many stories this year besides Malkin's emergence and Avery's shenanigans. Maybe the Wings & Stars have been sort of exciting in the first 2 rounds, but it's nothing to write home about.

Oh well, I guess after the excitement of the Sens Cup run last year, I'm a bit jaded.

[BCBoy]

This has been one of the most boring Stanley cup playoffs in my memory. Anyone agree? Save the flames-sharks, caps/flyers series and the quad-overtime in dallas I've been snoozing through this playoff season and especially the conference finals. Hopefully that means that Red Wings-Penguins will be really memorable.

I would have strongly disagreed with this statement after round one. Round one was one of the best rounds of hockey I'd watched in a looooong time. However, round two was a stinker, and round 3 could see a couple of sweeps, so I'll agree with you to some extent.

However, I think a Detroit-Pittsburgh final is really going to be awesome.

[Neon_Matrix]

I'd say we saw it as a sign that, despite reaching the top, the team was in the race.

I don't see the season as "win the Cup or your season has all been failure." Let's face fact--were the Blues to have made the playoffs this year, I would have counted that as a success when compared to the last couple seasons.

I suppose in Toronto, you're spoiled on Cup success, but not all teams see their season as a complete failure when their team fails to lift the cup. If that were the case, twenty-nine coaches would be fired every year.

Yes after years of not being in the playoffs and then making it can be seen as a step up, it still doesn't mean as much as going all the way. Although that is a given. I will be the first to say when the Leafs actually qualify for the post season again this city will get CRAZY although I won't really be among them unless I believe we have a team good enough to go far. Just making it doesn't cut it for me. You have to go in wanting to win and having the tools necessary to do so.

[Viper]

This has been one of the most boring Stanley cup playoffs in my memory. Anyone agree? Save the flames-sharks, caps/flyers series and the quad-overtime in dallas I've been snoozing through this playoff season and especially the conference finals. Hopefully that means that Red Wings-Penguins will be really memorable.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Then again that's in part because my team didn't make it out of the first round, having sleepwalked through one too many periods against the Avs. Then yet again, for the first time in years the Stanley Cup playoffs are no longer holding my undivided attention as a sports fan, having fallen head-over-heels in love with the NLL, whose regular-season stretch run and playoffs occur at the same time (the Champion's Cup final is this weekend; alas, my Swarm won't be involved).

The Pens were my pre-playoff pick to win it all. They can still do it, but the Red Wings have been looking scary-good for the last couple of rounds, and a lot more dominant than Pittsburgh.

[Brass]

This has been one of the most boring Stanley cup playoffs in my memory. Anyone agree? Save the flames-sharks, caps/flyers series and the quad-overtime in dallas I've been snoozing through this playoff season and especially the conference finals. Hopefully that means that Red Wings-Penguins will be really memorable.

I think this could be the lack of rivalries that really mean something. The playoffs were so exciting in the mid-to-late 90's, because we knew we were going to see a Detroit/Colorado clash at some point in time. Dallas even contributed to the rivalry, though they were like the Mets in the Sox/Yanks rivalry. I'm surprised there isn't much animosity between the Penguins and Flyers. Perhaps I'm missing something, but if I don't even know better, I would've never of guessed that they were both from the same state. I honestly think if Biron threw down with Fleury in their next meeting, some tensions would grow and we would have another renewed rivalry.

[habsfan1]

The way the 2 CF Series are going, it looks like there won't be any hockey this june.

The dominence by the 2 teams also made me lose interest in both series since the outcomes have become waaaaay too predictable. I'm actually hoping for an exciting SCF, to end the season on a good note.

[Shane Does Art]

So I was reading around at trade rumours on the web, and I saw a lot of them involving Spezza, so I thought I'd voice my opinion on the whole thing.

Watching Jason play can be one of the most utterly painful things to do as a fan. He takes forever to get to his top speed, and makes some of the worst passes you will ever see. Not to mention I've never seen him make a good defensive play.

Now here's the thing I really feel that under a coach who can teach him to play a 2-way game, a coach like Pat Burns, that Jason Spezza can become one of the best players in the game.

With that being said I really hope they decide to keep him, and I really hope that Murray can find a coach that can get too Spezza and teach him to be a responsible player.

Here's hoping for the best!