Sports cities needing teams

[Fred T. Jane]

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

Attendance Figures

National Basketball Association: 21,841,480 over 1,230 games= 17,757 average attendance

National Hockey League: 21,236,255 over 1,230 games= 17,265 average attendance

Major League Soccer: 3,270,210 over 195 games= 16,770 average attendance

Just sayin'.

[Lee.]

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

Attendance Figures

National Basketball Association: 21,841,480 over 1,230 games= 17,757 average attendance

National Hockey League: 21,236,255 over 1,230 games= 17,265 average attendance

Major League Soccer: 3,270,210 over 195 games= 16,770 average attendance

Just sayin'.

Hey. We'll have none of those facts and logic muddying the waters 'round these here parts, thankyouverymuch.

[NoHoJoe]

Montreal NEEDS a basebal team BADLY!!!!

If MLB cannot provide Montreal with an expansion franchise, then the Mets should move their farm club from New Orleans to Montreal and rename them the MONTREAL ROYALES!

MON AMOURS SIEMPRE!!!

[Joshawaggie]

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

Attendance Figures

National Basketball Association: 21,841,480 over 1,230 games= 17,757 average attendance

National Hockey League: 21,236,255 over 1,230 games= 17,265 average attendance

Major League Soccer: 3,270,210 over 195 games= 16,770 average attendance

Just sayin'.

Hey. We'll have none of those facts and logic muddying the waters 'round these here parts, thankyouverymuch.

Numbers are scary, let's leave them out of this and only argue with personal feelings and stereotypes.

[edwardgr]

The cities that MLB shoud be in at this point are pick two from the following:

Portland, Nashville, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Indianapolis, Charlotte

If the power that be can't get together and agree on a stadium that meets AAA standards,what make you thing they can get together on a Major League Stadium?

I think the difference now is that Nashville is beginning to realize that it is Major League. I think a Major League stadium is an easier sell so long as a tenant is guaranteed. In addition Nashville seems to be the only major market left in the East/Mid-East that is not within ~4 hours of another MLB market (Unless you include Raleigh). Atlanta is the closest market at just under 4 hours away.

Right except you do not have a Major Leage ready baseball stadium, you do have an NBA ready arena, and you are in the heart of hoops country. I did suggest Charlotte for MLB but that is based on the flirtations with the Marlins. If it turns out that Raleigh is better suited I have no problem with that, I had just never heard of MLB interest from that area.

No, but the new Durham Bulls Athletic Park was built with MLB-ready conversion capability. If the area got an MLB franchise in October, the team could play there (though admittedly the construction crews would be haulin' ass) the following April.

COLLEGE basketball is big here. The Raleigh market generally isn't very big when it comes to NBA ball though. Charlotte would like an MLB team I'm sure, but they'd be harder pressed to support it than Raleigh - if for no other reason due to the fact that Raleigh only has the NHL here, while Charlotte already has NFL and NBA teams competing for discretionary income.

Perhaps the NBA would be bigger in Raleigh if a team actually existed. Was there a huge Hockey base in the triangle before the Hurricanes? I will however concede that the Triangle MSA is large enough to supprt MLB and is distant enough from existing teams to work.

[footballfiji]

I doubt there will be another MLB team in the Southeast. Except for Florida, this is Braves country.

[Geoff]

I realize this is a little off topic for this forum, but I was just noticing which markets have teams for which of the 5 major professional sports and wanted to get it off my chest.

Anyway, I think Florida deserves an MLS team. I also think the Charlotte market should get an MLB team and either KC or StL should get an NBA team instead of OKC. The NFL is distributed pretty fairly, but I think Seattle is missing an NHL (& now NBA) team.

Side note: Only 7 US cities have a team in each of the 5 major professional leagues,

- Dallas (Mavericks, Cowboys, Rangers, Stars, FC Dallas)

- New York (Knicks, Giants/Jets, Mets/Yankees, Islanders/Rangers, Red Bull)

- Chicago (Bulls, Bears, White Sox/Cubs, Blackhawks, Fire)

- Philadelphia (Sixers, Eagles, Phillies, Flyers, 2010 team)

- Boston (Celtics, Patriots, Red Sox, Bruins, Revolution)

- Denver (Nuggets, Broncos, Rockies, Avalanche, Rapids)

- DC (Wizards, Redskins, Nationals, Capitols, United)

Ok, I'll do it. As we all know, the Jets, Giants, and Red Bulls play in New Jersey. The Islanders are pretty far east to be considered the City.

[-kj]

Yes, yes. And the Pistons don't play in Detroit, the Skins don't play in Washington, blah blah blah...

[rams80]

San Diego needs a basketball team :|

I think you mean San Diego needs a Baseketball team.

San Diego needs a new arena!

/end discussion

[rams80]

Here we go: let's launch some new leagues with those cities reportedly deserving to have major league franchises in their area...

BASEBALL

Austin

Buffalo

Columbus

Indianapolis

Montreal (just for the hell of it)

Portland

Raleigh

Sacramento

FOOTBALL

Austin

Columbus

Los Angeles

Memphis

Milwaukee

Orlando

San Antonio

San Jose

BASKETBALL

Cincinnati

Kansas City

Las Vegas

Louisville

St. Louis

San Diego

Seattle

Tampa

HOCKEY

Baltimore

Hamilton

Houston

Indianapolis

Kansas City

Quebec City

San Diego

Winnipeg (just to shut 'em the hell up)

SOCCER

Atlanta

Las Vegas

Miami

Phoenix

Portland

Raleigh

San Antonio

Vancouver

How's that?

Austin? for MLB and the NFL? they couldn't keep an Arena Football team!

Technically they are now AF2, but it isn't the city that brought it down it was the owner who couldn't handle the cost of operating the team on an AFL level. They had great attendance just not an owner who couldn't handle the cost.

If Doug Macgregor couldn't handle the cost...(oh well, the AFL's doomed anyway under its current model). The real problem is that Macgregor took on a lot of debt from the initial owner and that is what killed the AFL franchise. That and the whole "minor league football in the same town as Texas" thing.

[rams80]

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

Attendance Figures

National Basketball Association: 21,841,480 over 1,230 games= 17,757 average attendance

National Hockey League: 21,236,255 over 1,230 games= 17,265 average attendance

Major League Soccer: 3,270,210 over 195 games= 16,770 average attendance

Just sayin'.

Hey. We'll have none of those facts and logic muddying the waters 'round these here parts, thankyouverymuch.

Well, while we're on the subject....how about flashing up some percent of capacity filled numbers.

I think all NHL teams should move to Canada, with the exception of Detroit because surely Canada will annex Michigan eventually.

Congratulations on making the most nationalistic post in the thread!

[Fred T. Jane]

Well, while we're on the subject....how about flashing up some percent of capacity filled numbers.

Done:

National Basketball Association: 540,873 seats for 30 arenas = 18,029 seats with 17,757 average attendance per game= 98.5% capacity

National Hockey League: 553,580 seats for 30 arenas= 18,452 seats with 17,265 average attendance= 93.6% capacity

Major League Soccer: 282,386 seats for 13 stadia*=21,722** seats with 16,770 average attendance= 77.0% capacity***

------------------------------------------------------

* MLS had 13 teams in 2007.

**Numbers are hard to be accurate for MLS because DC United, New England Revolution, Real Salt Lake, and Red Bull New York limit their seating well below their stadia's capacity, generally only one side of the stadium is open for seating. I unfortunately had to guesstimate for these. The figures I used were as follows- DC United: 22270 (lower West [?] stand at RFK), New England Revolution: 24120 (Half of lower stand at Gillette Stadium), Real Salt Lake: 18000 (Half of Lower Stand at Rice-Eccles Stadium), Red Bull New York: 20100 (half of lower bowl at Giants Stadium)

***MLS has 6 stadia with larger capacities than the largest in the NBA (United Center with a 22,200 capacity) or the NHL (Bell Centre with a 21,273 capacity), with the Home Depot Center (Home for the LA Galaxy and Chivas USA) having a capacity of 27,000 and Robertson Stadium (Home of the 2-time MLS Cup Champion Houston Dynamo) topping the list at 32,000

[edited to add info]

[winters in buffalo]

Philadelphia deserves a roller disco team.

[Island_Style]

Philadelphia deserves a roller disco team.

Not before Jacksonville!

[infrared41]

First, are we all in agreement that we're adding the MLS to "the big four?"

We only seem to have great attendance when it's an international friendly these days.

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

No, in fact, I question whether or not the "Big Four" isn't in reality a "Big Three," as the NHL, comparatively speaking (with respect to television exposure in particular), is a really weak sister to the NBA, NFL and MLB.

Just my opinion but...

I think if you're basing it on popularity and awareness MLS is about on the same level as arena football. It's a niche sport at best.

Based on Professor Freddie's numbers approximately 3.5 million tickets were sold to MLS games in 2007. Or about half as much as the International League, less than half of the Pacific Coast League, a little less than the Eastern League, on par with The ECHL, all "minor leagues" with no "star power." Still, 3.5 million is not bad for a 13 team league that plays 32 games. That said, if we're going to seriously discuss MLS' inclusion as a big time league then let's look at the reality. MLS TV numbers are miniscule (0.2 on ESPN) and I doubt that 99% of American sports fans couldn't name an MLS team if you pointed a gun at their head. Sorry but that ain't "major league" by any definition.

When it comes to popularity and public awareness, MLS is a much smaller version of the NHL. MLS has a very loyal and dedicated fan base and there's not a thing wrong with that but calling it one of the "Big 4" is a joke. Sorry, but if you can't outdraw the ECHL with bigger markets, bigger stadiums, and a TV deal with a major network, then you have no business in any discussion of what constitutes a "major league."

[Island_Style]

I wish Jacksonville would get another pro team but that isnt happening. maybe in 10-15 years but I am not holding my breath. I would even take MLS right now.

[dfwabel]

First, are we all in agreement that we're adding the MLS to "the big four?"

We only seem to have great attendance when it's an international friendly these days.

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

No, in fact, I question whether or not the "Big Four" isn't in reality a "Big Three," as the NHL, comparatively speaking (with respect to television exposure in particular), is a really weak sister to the NBA, NFL and MLB.

Just my opinion but...

I think if you're basing it on popularity and awareness MLS is about on the same level as arena football. It's a niche sport at best.

Based on Professor Freddie's numbers approximately 3.5 million tickets were sold to MLS games in 2007. Or about half as much as the International League, less than half of the Pacific Coast League, a little less than the Eastern League, on par with The ECHL, all "minor leagues" with no "star power." Still, 3.5 million is not bad for a 13 team league that plays 32 games. That said, if we're going to seriously discuss MLS' inclusion as a big time league then let's look at the reality. MLS TV numbers are miniscule (0.2 on ESPN) and I doubt that 99% of American sports fans couldn't name an MLS team if you pointed a gun at their head. Sorry but that ain't "major league" by any definition.

When it comes to popularity and public awareness, MLS is a much smaller version of the NHL. MLS has a very loyal and dedicated fan base and there's not a thing wrong with that but calling it one of the "Big 4" is a joke. Sorry, but if you can't outdraw the ECHL with bigger markets, bigger stadiums, and a TV deal with a major network, then you have no business in any discussion of what constitutes a "major league."

I am not sure how good ticket sales are when nine teams are in eight of the top 10 US markets. Currently, Philadelphia and Atlanta do not have a franchise.

[B-Rich]

Montreal NEEDS a basebal team BADLY!!!!

If MLB cannot provide Montreal with an expansion franchise, then the Mets should move their farm club from New Orleans to Montreal and rename them the MONTREAL ROYALES!

MON AMOURS SIEMPRE!!!

Umm, no.

First of all, Montreal had a "basebal (sic) team badly"-- the last decade of the Expos.

In regards to an expansion MLB franchise for Montreal, ain't gonna happen. If Montreal couldn't get their act together and build a quality baseball-only stadium back when they HAD the Expos, what would make them do so now? Plus, it's not like the stadium was the only issue that led to the franchise's demise in Montreal.. I don't see any move from the MLB owners and powers-that-be to return to Montreal.

In regards to AAA ball for Montreal; well, that may be a possibility, but it's not a matter of "the Mets should move their farm club from New Orleans". The AAA Zephyrs franchise is owned by Don Beaver, not the Mets. He, like most owners, has an affiliation agreement with the Mets. Prior to that it was with the Nationals, and prior to that it was with the Astros. And the team is doing quite well in Zephyr Stadium in suburban New Orleans (Metairie), thank you very much...

I don't think you'll see any AAA owner interested in moving to Montreal unless the city or surrounding area builds them a nice, fan-friendly state-of-the-art AAA stadium that maximizes game day-revenue-- similar to what was built in Round Rock, Metairie, Memphis, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Allentown, etc. and what is being built in Gwinnett County and Columbus, GA.

[jkrdevil]

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

Attendance Figures

National Basketball Association: 21,841,480 over 1,230 games= 17,757 average attendance

National Hockey League: 21,236,255 over 1,230 games= 17,265 average attendance

Major League Soccer: 3,270,210 over 195 games= 16,770 average attendance

Just sayin'.

Of course the NHL and NBA play at smaller capacity arenas with a maximum capacity of about 22,000 for Basketball and about 20,000-21,000. Even with soccer specific stadiums the capacity for MLS is higher. Not to mention that tickets are much cheaper for MLS.

[McCall]

MLB Top Potential Markets in no particular order (legitimate facts cost extra )

Portland

San Antonio

Indianapolis

Las Vegas

Charlotte

(although the first 4 would be the most likely. I personally still believe Portland and San Antonio should be the next 2.)

NBA

Kansas City

Las Vegas

Cinicnnati/Louisville

(I left off OKC/Seattle for now. Either one would probably come in after KC, once the dispute was over and they knew where the Sonics were gonna be.)

NFL

Los Angeles

Toronto

(Tough here, becaue relocation is basically the only avenue available to fill these markets.)

NHL

I dunno. Canadian cities obviously.

Kansas City (Brand spanking new state-of-the-art arena)

Las Vegas.