Avalanche Vs. Canucks

[habsfannova]

You can't kick him out of the game forever!

OK, this incident can be seen in pretty much two lights.

For those who think that fights are a good thing, they will say that this could have been easily prevented. They will say that fights take pressure off of the game, they allow more open play, and they are more of a "safe" thing then "cheap shots" and sticks to the head. The constant comparison made (or used to be made) was with Euro hockey, where sticks were swung freely and players had constant welts. Players protecting other players allowed for many great scoring specialists, such as Gretzky, who, even hardcore fans have to admit, would have much fewer goals then he does if McSorely and Semenko weren't around, or Bossy; mainly becasue the era of the scorer that can defend himself (Howe and Richard were the best fighters in the league at their time) is dead.

For those who buy into what I call "Dryden Theory," which he stated in his book(The Game Which is a must read for all hockey fans), all fighting leads to is increased violence and cheap shots. The NHL and fighting supporters look at it as a diffusion of urges and pressures. Dryden and others point out that violence INSPIRES more violent behaviour, and thus more and more fights. It points to the main cause of "cheap shots" as the speeding up of the game: Players are getting bigger, the ice is the same size, the game is getting faster because of better athletes and shorter shifts. This creates frustration among those who cannot keep up: Thus the stick swinging and violence. He proposes that players should be coached to let agression leave through playing the game differently then traditional values and to have a more open ice, through either 4-on-4 or Euro rinks.

I frankly don't know which to believe. I just know something has to change.

[Phil]

I've never seen a pool of blood that big on a hockey rink...

that was nasty, and Bertuzzi deserves to be charged.

I was beginning to learn to enjoy watching the Canucks, but this is ridiculous.

People say Moore was running the whole game. Not true... he did get in a scrap earlier in the game, and came out on top. Then he tries to skate away, and Bertuzzi cranks him?

It's true, hockey needs to crack down hard on all violence. Dirty hits, cheap shots, even fights.

People always talk about hockey being an aggressive sport with lots of contact, tempers flare, and fights break out. You don't see this happening in football, it's just as aggressive with more contact. Thing is, in football it isn't tolerated. It happens, but not nearly as often. It's time hockey stopped tolerating it, and it's also time the players learned to have a little more respect and start keeping it cleaner.

[STL FANATIC]

Toronto has a lot of players with dirty reps, but it's been a while since they've done anything. Canucks fans were giving the Blues crap about being dirty because Tkachuk has had a couple crosschecks to throats (one was actually pushed from the shoulders to the throat by the reciever of the check), and because Doug Weight turned around to cross check one of the Sedins after be clutched and grabbed and the stick ended up in Sedin's face. Also, Pronger CAN be pretty harsh with his stick. These are basically minor incidents though.

I argued Vancouver was just as dirty. Brad May throws out the semi cheap hits every now and then, and Bertuzzi seems quite dirty to me as well, but he always found a way to make his hits legal.

Now, Canucks fans just don't have a defense. He should be gone for the rest of this year and AT LEAST the whole next season that is played (meaning if there is a lockout for two years, he has to miss the third).

[habsfannova]

Toronto has a lot of players with dirty reps, but it's been a while since they've done anything. Canucks fans were giving the Blues crap about being dirty because Tkachuk has had a couple crosschecks to throats (one was actually pushed from the shoulders to the throat by the reciever of the check), and because Doug Weight turned around to cross check one of the Sedins after be clutched and grabbed and the stick ended up in Sedin's face. Also, Pronger CAN be pretty harsh with his stick. These are basically minor incidents though.

I argued Vancouver was just as dirty. Brad May throws out the semi cheap hits every now and then, and Bertuzzi seems quite dirty to me as well, but he always found a way to make his hits legal.

Now, Canucks fans just don't have a defense. He should be gone for the rest of this year and AT LEAST the whole next season that is played (meaning if there is a lockout for two years, he has to miss the third).

Homer...

You make a good point,though.

[oz615]

It's situations like this that give hockey a bad name and ruin a chance for it to get mainstream like baseball and football in the U.S.

And what's really sad about this is that it takes an messed up like this for hockey to be the lead story on sportscenter or any other tv or radio sports show for that mater in the US and it completley overshadowed was NHL trade deadline

[Notch Novelty]

bertuzzi's punch on moore wasnt that bad - signed marty mcsorley

[Stampman]

As far as how this relates to fighting--this was a sucker punch--not a fight--a fight has two guys going toe to toe--this was a sucker punch--there's a difference--still most fighting is silly at best--here a sucker punch proves very damaging.

[rmered]

You know what else, that game was a beauty before it got ugly.

5 goals in the first, then the Canucks came back to where they could have been right back in it with an extra goal.

Then they got the dumb (and somewhat harsh) penalties that led to the goal that made it 6-2 and the night went pear shaped.

[paynomind]

Face-to-face, gloves dropped, one-on-one, standing up fighting is PART of the game of hockey.

It is allowed in the rules, and is a good thing. This activity by Betuzzi is reprehensible, awful, shocking, and gross. But crack down on fights? That?s crazy and wrong. Hearing that from someone makes me think (whether it is wrong or right to think this) that they themselves are a wimp, and just wants everyone to "play nice." That is bullplop to the highest degree. If you don't like the fighting, then watch something else.

I, for one, think that less sever 'instigator' penalties are to blame for this explosion. Hockey never had these sorts of problems before.

I believe in the first scenario - if you can fight, you de-stress.

If you can fight, you watch yourself, cause you know you could get you butt whipped for messing around.

If you can fight, you can get folks back for dirty play, so dirty play reduces.

If you can fight, you can solve things like a man.

[Joshawaggie]

what a coward, thats all I can say. If Moore can never play again, why should Bertuzzi, i don't care if he is good or not, its his fault.

[Notch Novelty]

Bertuzzi's attacking of Moore wasnt that bad - signed marty mcsorley and ogie ogilthorpe....agreed by Mad Dog Madison, Screaming Buffalo, and Mike Tyson

[Phil]

Face-to-face, gloves dropped, one-on-one, standing up fighting is PART of the game of hockey.

It is allowed in the rules, and is a good thing. This activity by Betuzzi is reprehensible, awful, shocking, and gross. But crack down on fights? That?s crazy and wrong. Hearing that from someone makes me think (whether it is wrong or right to think this) that they themselves are a wimp, and just wants everyone to "play nice." That is bullplop to the highest degree. If you don't like the fighting, then watch something else.

I, for one, think that less sever 'instigator' penalties are to blame for this explosion. Hockey never had these sorts of problems before.

I believe in the first scenario - if you can fight, you de-stress.

If you can fight, you watch yourself, cause you know you could get you butt whipped for messing around.

If you can fight, you can get folks back for dirty play, so dirty play reduces.

If you can fight, you can solve things like a man.

Are you saying, because football doesn't want fighting, that football is run by wimps? Or is it that they can play hard-hitting, hard-nosed football, but play nice as well?

If hockey didn't tolerate fighting or dirty hits, then we wouldn't need instigator penalties, and you'd have a lot less injuries, a lot more skill being shown, yada yada yada. Heaven forbid there'd be less McSorley's and more Kovalchuk's and Sakic's on the ice. What a boring game that would be.

Fighting destresses? I thought it was supposed to pump the team up? And does the person on the losing end feel 'destressed'? No, he's just going to come back harder next time.

'If you can fight, you get folks back for dirty play.' In the NFL, you get back for dirty play by getting penalized up the wazoo, getting tossed, or getting fined. Only in rare situations do things even escalate to pushing and shoving, never mind punches.

'If you can fight, you can get people back for dirty play... so less dirty play.' Personally I believe not tolerating dirty play would reduce dirty play better. Why treat a symptom rather than the problem?

Fighting is solving things like a boy. Kids in the playground fight. Men solve things civilly, or avoid the problem in the first place.

[rmered]

I was working on a long response, but I've deleted it and will instead write "Ditto everything SyPhi said"

De-stresses... I'm sorry, I had to laugh at that.

I mean, I sometimes get stressed at work, think I should go bash someone?

Maybe the kid in the office who annoys me when he complains all the time.

Or the payroll lady when she doesn't give me the right commissions, but I know my wife spent the money already.

BANG old lady, down you go too. Maybe right your face into the office carpet like Bertuzzi on Moore.

Come on, grown-ups learnt there was a better way than fighting, one that doesn't skin your knuckles.

[CDunn]

Kick Bertuzzi out atleast a year or two(Lockout year not counting cause no one will play), though I wouldn't object if he were banished. He could have easily killed Moore. He broke the kid's neck a smashed his face into the ice. That just can't be allowed to stand. If you want to get back at a guy, fight him clean, don't punch him in the back of the head when he turns away. Or get your big man to give him a hard check into the boards. That's the way to settle the score in hockey. A consentual(sp) fight or a good, hard, legal check. But not like this. Hockey is an aggressive game, but there are ways to be aggressive and not send people to the hospital lying in a pool of their own blood.

[rmered]

How many games should this guy have missed?

What a thug!!!

[zer0dotcom]

now that was a rare sight indeed

[Roger Clemente]

BANG old lady, down you go too. Maybe right your face into the office carpet like Bertuzzi on Moore.

The first time I saw that quote, I could have sworn it said:

"BANG old lady, down you go, right on to the Home Depot."

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[rmered]

BANG old lady, down you go too. Maybe right your face into the office carpet like Bertuzzi on Moore.

The first time I saw that quote, I could have sworn it said:

"BANG old lady, down you go, right on to the Home Depot."

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

That would have been much funnier.

Do you think I should edit it and change it to that?

It makes no sense, but makes me laugh.

[NJTank]

You can't kick him out of the game forever!

OK, this incident can be seen in pretty much two lights.

For those who think that fights are a good thing, they will say that this could have been easily prevented. They will say that fights take pressure off of the game, they allow more open play, and they are more of a "safe" thing then "cheap shots" and sticks to the head. The constant comparison made (or used to be made) was with Euro hockey, where sticks were swung freely and players had constant welts. Players protecting other players allowed for many great scoring specialists, such as Gretzky, who, even hardcore fans have to admit, would have much fewer goals then he does if McSorely and Semenko weren't around, or Bossy; mainly becasue the era of the scorer that can defend himself (Howe and Richard were the best fighters in the league at their time) is dead.

For those who buy into what I call "Dryden Theory," which he stated in his book(The Game Which is a must read for all hockey fans), all fighting leads to is increased violence and cheap shots. The NHL and fighting supporters look at it as a diffusion of urges and pressures. Dryden and others point out that violence INSPIRES more violent behaviour, and thus more and more fights. It points to the main cause of "cheap shots" as the speeding up of the game: Players are getting bigger, the ice is the same size, the game is getting faster because of better athletes and shorter shifts. This creates frustration among those who cannot keep up: Thus the stick swinging and violence. He proposes that players should be coached to let agression leave through playing the game differently then traditional values and to have a more open ice, through either 4-on-4 or Euro rinks.

I frankly don't know which to believe. I just know something has to change.

Well before the instigator rule incidents did not really happen they had the fight it was over with.

[IronChefShark]

[Mod Edit: Remember kids, new board, same rules.]

ned flanders strikes again......