New Marlins Ballpark Renderings

[MadmanLA]

You know what would be great? If Arizona went to the Super Bowl last year, when it was in the Univ. of Phoenix Stadium.

Has that ever happened before? Where's Tank!?

We've had two occasions where Super Bowl participants played in their home markets, but not in their own stadiums...

Super Bowl XIV, 1/20/1980, Pittsburgh Steelers vs. Los Angeles Rams at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena. The 1979 season would be the last for the Rams at the L.A. Coliseum, as they moved to a rebuilt Anaheim Stadium that following season.

Super Bowl XIX, exactly five years later, Miami Dolphins vs. San Francisco 49ers at Stanford University's Stadium.

[dfwabel]

The mess has just started. FRom the story, then the AP link. I have also heard worse from those closer to the situation.

MIAMI (AP) ? The Florida Marlins encountered another curveball Friday in their bid for a new ballpark.

City commissioners met for 7 1/2 hours without reaching a final decision on a plan to build a 37,000-seat stadium near downtown. They agreed to take up the issue again March 12.

The Miami-Dade County Commission was on deck to consider the proposal but never met. The Marlins had hoped for final approval of plans calling for a stadium projected to open in 2012 and cost $515 million, with the public paying $361 million.

City commissioners voted 2-2 on the plan, with one member absent and three votes required for approval. They were on the verge of adjournment, which likely would have killed the deal, but after a recess agreed to resume discussions next month.

Decision on Marlns new staduim is limbo

[The_Admiral]

[scraw28]

Looks great. Maybe it can draw a few more fans.

good luck with that

[dfwabel]

Since I know that many kids here do not click on links, this another part of the AP story I posted. I could alk about Roberts Rules of Order in terms of a tie, but everyone, when a decision from RRO lands in a tie, the motion fails. Now, these amendments would have been with council members missing, I believe this was disingenous to even state.

"You are using public money to enhance a private franchise," commissioner Marc Sarnoff said. "It's not your job and my job as taxpayers to try and make a private venture more profitable."

Sarnoff voted against the plan, then offered amendments favorable to the city dealing with the parking garage, naming rights and the potential sale of the team. In response to two amendments, Samson said the Marlins would consider them only if the entire proposal were reopened for negotiation.

After the meeting, Samson said the deal's not dead. Commission chairman Joe Sanchez, who voted for the plan, said delaying a final decision might save the project.

"This is the right thing to do," Sanchez said. "I think we need to regroup and give both sides an ample opportunity to work out an agreement of some kind."

Sarnoff also said he was willing to keep discussions going.

[marlinfan]

It all depends on Michelle Spence-Jones. She has voted for the ballpark in the past and is a huge supporter of Mayor Diaz.

[yoo]

hope it falls through and they move to NC

[dfwabel]

It all depends on Michelle Spence-Jones. She has voted for the ballpark in the past and is a huge supporter of Mayor Diaz.

You cannot just have a new vote with her there and move on. If a council member is absent or excused and they have enough members to for a quorum, then any decision is official.

That vote was 2-2 (for whatever reason). This session only needed 4 of the 5 to make a quorum. A tie makes any motion defeated, period.

They cannot just re-vote on a previous motion, if a motion failed previously. Honestly, as someone who had to know parts of "Robert's Rules", is that the Council heard a motion and a plan and made a vote. Therefore that motion fails. However ,it seems as if they will still have a vote on identical issue in March. That should not occur.

The "ney" voters, or someone, will have to introduce a new motion with one or more of their amendments for this to pass.

It is nice to know that the actual person who has to deal with this, the City Manager is silent as (s)he should be, but they know this is a bad deal for the city.

[ElwoodCuse]

Good for them, public money for stadiums is a huge scam.

[EASTSIDE MVP]

Wow.. that doesn't look like a rip off of the SkyDome at all..

Agreed.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Good for them, public money for stadiums is a huge scam.

Disagree. They're economy-boosters, and they don't belong to any one team legally.

[Gothamite]

Any claim of direct economic benefit of stadiums above the public money that goes into them is highly dubious. At best. Yes, you get some part-time low-wage jobs, but at great cost. Yes, they tend to concentrate additional development around themselves, but they don't create new development dollars, they just take them from other areas and re-distribute them.

And most do "belong to one team" in a very real sense, as the proceeds of naming rights more often (if not always?) go to pay down the team's debt and not the municipality's debt. Miller Park included, BTW. So while the team may not "own" the place, it gets the benefit of ownership without the liabilities.

I support public financing in most cases, and do in this one, for the less tangible benefits a Major League Baseball franchise brings to a community. But let's not pretend that it is anything more than what it is.

[leopard88]

Any claim of direct economic benefit of stadiums above the public money that goes into them is highly dubious. At best. Yes, you get some part-time low-wage jobs, but at great cost. Yes, they tend to concentrate additional development around themselves, but they don't create new development dollars, they just take them from other areas and re-distribute them.

And most do "belong to one team" in a very real sense, as the proceeds of naming rights more often (if not always?) go to pay down the team's debt and not the municipality's debt. Miller Park included, BTW. So while the team may not "own" the place, it gets the benefit of ownership without the liabilities.

I support public financing in most cases, and do in this one, for the less tangible benefits a Major League Baseball franchise brings to a community. But let's not pretend that it is anything more than what it is.

Well stated. I particularly agree with the last paragraph. Professional sports provide an intangible benefit that is impossible to quantify despite being very real. Just think of the mood in your favorite team's city during its last playoff run (whenever that may have been).

[The_Admiral]

I support public financing in most cases, and do in this one, for the less tangible benefits a Major League Baseball franchise brings to a community.

Yeah, but this community is Miami. It's not the kind of town that needs a new ballpark to raise its national profile. I can see that argument for Milwaukee, where sports are a big deal and the architecture of the park is a big deal and we can agree there have been benefits from the building of Miller Park. I don't think Miami is really sold on the whole stadium racket, and though I'd like to see the Marlins stay in Miami and play somewhere nicer than Dolphin Stadium, I can understand how they might decide it isn't something that they need right now.

[Gothamite]

I don't know Miami well enough to speak with any authority, but it's not necessarily about "raising its national profile." I maintain that the civic spirit of Los Angeles has been somewhat diminished by not having a NFL team to rally around.

New York gets something very profound out of its sports teams, and I don't think anyone will accuse Gotham of not having a sufficiently high national profile.

[WSU151]

Since I know that many kids here do not click on links, this another part of the AP story I posted. I could alk about Roberts Rules of Order in terms of a tie, but everyone, when a decision from RRO lands in a tie, the motion fails. Now, these amendments would have been with council members missing, I believe this was disingenous to even state.

"You are using public money to enhance a private franchise," commissioner Marc Sarnoff said. "It's not your job and my job as taxpayers to try and make a private venture more profitable."

Sarnoff (and other politicians) could be opening huge cans or worms with statements like this...

Aren't there a whole bunch of private companies that are very profitable off of government dollars? Granted that few private companies have the governement build huge buildings/offices for them, but to say that the taxpayers don't enhance any private ventures is a joke.

[dfwabel]

The Miami-Dade County meeting on the new Marlins stadium is online.

Miami Dade County Commission Meeting on Marlins Stadium

[DelayedPenalty]

Bah, politics.

Definitely agree with Neon about it being a mini-SkyDome. Does Miami really need a retractable roof stadium? It seems like an excessive engineering and budget ad on.

[TBGKon]

Bah, politics.

Definitely agree with Neon about it being a mini-SkyDome. Does Miami really need a retractable roof stadium? It seems like an excessive engineering and budget ad on.

Yes, Miami (and Tampa Bay for that matter) need some kind of roof. As much as it rains in the summer down here, the possibility of rain delays/rain outs would increase with open-air only stadiums.

[dfwabel]

Bah, politics.

Definitely agree with Neon about it being a mini-SkyDome. Does Miami really need a retractable roof stadium? It seems like an excessive engineering and budget ad on.

The unintentional comedy on display with a public hearing made my Monday. Three hours worth of free speech in action.

Sorry about the loss of The Ann Arbor News, but there was typically more journalistic content within an eddition of The Michigan Daily or Michigan Review.