MLS Expansion Thread

[BrianVlietDesign]

I do not mind a second team in NYC, but what I do disagree with is the use of the NASL team names. The NASL had a nice 16 year run, but failed. Just because some of us who grew up with it and the names does not mean that there is much positive along with those names.

Seems to be working fine for Seattle, Portland and Vancouver.

They are still failed names from a failed league.

Must be the caffeine keeping me awake. I get how the league failed, how did the names fail exactly?

The team and the "brands" in the league failed. Over a decade later, when pro soocer was brought back, people just remembered the old names. The expectations with in the "Cosmos" name may also be too much for any group to bear. Getting the name from Peppe Pinton gives him money rather than develop the sport since you will have to tell children on the legend of the "old Cosmos".

While people remember the Cosmos name, it will may little impact on if people will buy seats. If a tee is bought from a person who grew up in Manhattan, but now lives in Charlotte (and cares little about MLS) the name means nothing.

You know, I never thought about it from that perspective. I guess, it's sometimes better to build a foundation on something that is new and potentially more successful over something that in the end, no one may remember.

[dfwabel]

I do not mind a second team in NYC, but what I do disagree with is the use of the NASL team names. The NASL had a nice 16 year run, but failed. Just because some of us who grew up with it and the names does not mean that there is much positive along with those names.

Seems to be working fine for Seattle, Portland and Vancouver.

They are still failed names from a failed league.

Must be the caffeine keeping me awake. I get how the league failed, how did the names fail exactly?

The team and the "brands" in the league failed. Over a decade later, when pro soocer was brought back, people just remembered the old names. The expectations with in the "Cosmos" name may also be too much for any group to bear. Getting the name from Peppe Pinton gives him money rather than develop the sport since you will have to tell children on the legend of the "old Cosmos".

While people remember the Cosmos name, it will may little impact on if people will buy seats. If a tee is bought from a person who grew up in Manhattan, but now lives in Charlotte (and cares little about MLS) the name means nothing.

You know, I never thought about it from that perspective. I guess, it's sometimes better to build a foundation on something that is new and potentially more successful over something that in the end, no one may remember.

That is my point. You can brings back names, but if the talent is not there or there is nothing behind it, the name becomes tarnished.

The name "New York Cosmos" name is similar to that of a music group you may a county/state fair or street fest which has one member who bought the rights to keep the name, yet it is really a cover band with one original member. Do we all really want to see a fake cover of The Temptations or REO Speedwagon?

[BrySmalls]

To counter your point dfwabel, the MLS has needed assistance on branding or rebranding their clubs and I do not have a problem with some of the club names drawing inspiration from their NASL predecessors, especially when they have brought in gimmicky names as the "Fusion", "Mutiny", "Clash", "(anything but) MetroStars", "Wiz"/"Wizards", "Burn", "Crew", "Rapids", and "Real Salt Lake". It seems that the clubs in the Pacific Northwest are not ashamed of their soccer origins and have kept their NASL heritage alive through the current reincarnations. Further, where the NASL "failed", the MLS has "learned" and continues to build on certain blueprints in order to become a successful global soccer league.

[Gothamite]

I do not mind a second team in NYC, but what I do disagree with is the use of the NASL team names. The NASL had a nice 16 year run, but failed. Just because some of us who grew up with it and the names does not mean that there is much positive along with those names.

Seems to be working fine for Seattle, Portland and Vancouver.

They are still failed names from a failed league.

Must be the caffeine keeping me awake. I get how the league failed, how did the names fail exactly?

The team and the "brands" in the league failed. Over a decade later, when pro soocer was brought back, people just remembered the old names.

That sure sounds to me like the names were spectacularly successful.

Look, history is nothing to be ashamed of. If an area has a strong soccer heritage, then why not embrace it?

Personally, I like how the new Cosmos are organizing themselves. They're taking the city's existing soccer culture, nurturing it and expanding it. That will provide the foundation for their MLS club's fanbase. It's brilliant, and exactly what the MetroStars/Red Bulls failed to do.

[dfwabel]

I do not mind a second team in NYC, but what I do disagree with is the use of the NASL team names. The NASL had a nice 16 year run, but failed. Just because some of us who grew up with it and the names does not mean that there is much positive along with those names.

Seems to be working fine for Seattle, Portland and Vancouver.

They are still failed names from a failed league.

Must be the caffeine keeping me awake. I get how the league failed, how did the names fail exactly?

The team and the "brands" in the league failed. Over a decade later, when pro soocer was brought back, people just remembered the old names.

That sure sounds to me like the names were spectacularly successful.

Look, history is nothing to be ashamed of. If an area has a strong soccer heritage, then why not embrace it?

Personally, I like how the new Cosmos are organizing themselves. They're taking the city's existing soccer culture, nurturing it and expanding it. That will provide the foundation for their MLS club's fanbase. It's brilliant, and exactly what the MetroStars/Red Bulls failed to do.

Names are ingrained in the mind of those who are not over the age of 30, thus are romanticized. If one person who is 35+ can recognize the name of the Cosmos or the Tulsa Roughnecks, four have no idea on their sports history. The NASL is just like the USFL to the 90%-ers; the 90% of the USA who is not as interested in sport as you and I are.

MLS had to buy TV time then sell the ads themselves for years. They were able to stay on ESPN for years was because MLS owned the English language rights to the 2002 and 2006 FIFA World Cup and sold the ads at a profit.

As I said before, fans were not going to watch because of a team name, yet MLS ratings dropped when Miami and Tampa were dropped. Rowdies or Strikers name aside, their names had little to do with that.

[JQK]

Who wouldn't love this?

[youcan'tseeme]

Who wouldn't love this?

Red Bull

[BrySmalls]

MetroStars/Red Bull New York had their chance and, for the most part, blew it.

[dfwabel]

MetroStars/Red Bull New York had their chance and, for the most part, blew it.

Because soccer is a sport which people love to see their kids play, but not necessarily watch. Hence why there is the need for soccer venues under 30K.

[OMMF]

As I said before, fans were not going to watch because of a team name

What the hell? Seattle has the name Sounders FC because so many people wrote it in on the ballot. Do you think they would have 30000+ at the games if they had stuck with Seattle Alliance or Seattle Republic? Can you imagine the Timbers Army if the owner had decided that not only was the logo dated but so was the name and changed it to something else? Please. People identify cities with team names. So what if the NASL failed? How does that make the name any less legitimate for an MLS team?

[dfwabel]

As I said before, fans were not going to watch because of a team name

What the hell? Seattle has the name Sounders FC because so many people wrote it in on the ballot. Do you think they would have 30000+ at the games if they had stuck with Seattle Alliance or Seattle Republic? Can you imagine the Timbers Army if the owner had decided that not only was the logo dated but so was the name and changed it to something else? Please. People identify cities with team names. So what if the NASL failed? How does that make the name any less legitimate for an MLS team?

And those people are (now) over romanticize that the former name was. That name was part of a failed league and poor quality since the league failed...that a the FIFA debate over the 35 yard line. I know and remember Crystal Pepsi, but that doe not mean that I want to see it brought back or would buy it more than once.

This is not like having AT&T (Bell) broken up as an US name, but it being broken up to the Baby Bells. AT&T lasted, the NASL did not. Heck, I do not hear anybody really wishing for the return of Ameritech, Pacific Telesis (whose logo I really liked) or SW BELL.

The 1964 song "Feeling Good" said it best:

It's a new dawn

It's a new day

It's a new life

[BrySmalls]

MetroStars/Red Bull New York had their chance and, for the most part, blew it.

Because soccer is a sport which people love to see their kids play, but not necessarily watch. Hence why there is the need for soccer venues under 30K.

Sometimes I wonder what the you're talking about......

[Corvus]

There's a reason these names have stuck around, and especially with the Cosmos, you don't throw away an opportunity to associate your brand with the greatest player in the history of the sport. I don't think you'd be getting Pele involving himself with this organization if they weren't going to call themselves the same name as the club he played for.

The failure of the NASL is something league wide, and I don't think that failure necessarily has any impact on the value of the names of the clubs from that league. League failure is something fans are going to ascribe to greedy or incompetent owners and executives, faceless white guys in suits, and not associate with the players and the club names and logos they wore, which is where fans have their emotional connection. The failure does not taint the logos or the club names IMO. And they are certainly no worse than the rather silly euro reference names that some of the current MLS teams have. I mean, Real Salt Lake, please. No one is confusing Salt Lake and Madrid anytime soon.

In the Whitecaps case, the name has clear resonance here in Vancouver, there were not many people who thought switching the 86'ers name back to Whitecaps was a bad idea when the club made the move in 2001.

[dfwabel]

There's a reason these names have stuck around, and especially with the Cosmos, you don't throw away an opportunity to associate your brand with the greatest player in the history of the sport. I don't think you'd be getting Pele involving himself with this organization if they weren't going to call themselves the same name as the club he played for.

The failure of the NASL is something league wide, and I don't think that failure necessarily has any impact on the value of the names of the clubs from that league. League failure is something fans are going to ascribe to greedy or incompetent owners and executives, faceless white guys in suits, and not associate with the players and the club names and logos they wore, which is where fans have their emotional connection. The failure does not taint the logos or the club names IMO. And they are certainly no worse than the rather silly euro reference names that some of the current MLS teams have. I mean, Real Salt Lake, please. No one is confusing Salt Lake and Madrid anytime soon.

In the Whitecaps case, the name has clear resonance here in Vancouver, there were not many people who thought switching the 86'ers name back to Whitecaps was a bad idea when the club made the move in 2001.

So if there two new music groups called "The Surpremes" and "The Beatles" which started to tour now with fresh talent, you would be all in like those tho apparently love soccer would be in for NASL names? I never placed on this thread that more "soccer like names" were necessary. Especially since the teams are clubs a century old and their nickname and mascot(s) were naturally given over time. We in the USA have to assign "nicknames" immediately, but other football teams have them given later. After 100 years, Internazionale is just known as Inter.

That is the difference between us. I do not need that.

[Gothamite]

Don't make this personal.

As I said before, fans were not going to watch because of a team name

What the hell? Seattle has the name Sounders FC because so many people wrote it in on the ballot. Do you think they would have 30000+ at the games if they had stuck with Seattle Alliance or Seattle Republic? Can you imagine the Timbers Army if the owner had decided that not only was the logo dated but so was the name and changed it to something else? Please. People identify cities with team names. So what if the NASL failed? How does that make the name any less legitimate for an MLS team?

Bingo.

Major League Soccer, after years of desperate denial, has finally realized that they should be marketing soccer to people who like soccer.

Part of that is acknowledging the local history of the sport. Don't pretend it's a brand-new product. Using a name like "Sounders" or "Cosmos" is a major component.

[leopard88]

Part of that is acknowledging the local history of the sport. Don't pretend it's a brand-new product. Using a name like "Sounders" or "Cosmos" is a major component.

I think the best analogy is the use of "minor league" names like Orioles, Angels, Marlins, Brewers and Padres for MLB teams. In the cases of Portland, Seattle and Vancouver, the old names are linked to the "failed" NASL, but they are also linked to a lengthy period of use with teams in lower divisions. Both the NASL and lower division uses of the names have created goodwill among enough of the fanbase to have value to the new teams.

[BrySmalls]

Former Houston Dynamo Assistant, John Spencer, is named the Head Coach of the Portland Timbers.

[Waffles]

Bumping this...the Wall Street Journal is reporting that an MLS has finally found a suitable spot for their next NYC franchise:

Pro Soccer Nearing Net in Flushing

After a wide search, Major League Soccer officials have zeroed in on a run-down section of Flushing Meadows-Corona Park in Queens as their preferred site for the league's first New York stadium, according to multiple officials briefed on the matter.

In recent weeks, top MLS officials have presented a detailed proposal to local politicians, outlining a plan for a 20,000- to 25,000-seat stadium on roughly eight acres near the northern end of the park.

Gothamist points out that "the distance between midtown Manhattan and the park is almost the same as the distance to Red Bull Arena in Harrison" and "there's no team attached to the potential stadium plan."

[BrySmalls]

Holy crap! I didn't remember that this thread existed and was created under my previous board name nonetheless.

[rvrdgsfn]

Bumping this...the Wall Street Journal is reporting that an MLS has finally found a suitable spot for their next NYC franchise:

Pro Soccer Nearing Net in Flushing

After a wide search, Major League Soccer officials have zeroed in on a run-down section of Flushing Meadows-Corona Park in Queens as their preferred site for the league's first New York stadium, according to multiple officials briefed on the matter.

In recent weeks, top MLS officials have presented a detailed proposal to local politicians, outlining a plan for a 20,000- to 25,000-seat stadium on roughly eight acres near the northern end of the park.

Gothamist points out that "the distance between midtown Manhattan and the park is almost the same as the distance to Red Bull Arena in Harrison" and "there's no team attached to the potential stadium plan."

Seems like a good place to put the stadium, the rumors kept mentioning Queens, seems most of the comments are for the stadium, I could easily see NYC becoming #20 with a strong possibility with the Cosmos' name attached to it.