Rocky Mountain Lows

[wdm1219inpenna]

Okay I know I'm a middle aged fuddy duddy 42 soon to be 43 year old guy. I know I am sounding more and more like my dad would if he were still alive today, and more like my uncle. I know this site is dominated by younger guys, 15 - 35, and that what I share here will seem very unpopular and I might get "flamed", but that's ok w/me, since it's 42 degrees, I wouldn't mind some "flames" today.

The postponed game in Colorado yesterday. I am not the least bit surprised by it. Back in '91, when Miami & Denver were announced as the 2 new cities to get teams, I liked it at first. When I realized that the Rockies were not going to be domed, I thought it was stupid. In retrospect, I think it was stupid for MLB to expand to Miami, Denver, Arizona and Tampa Bay.

The Marlins have 2 World titles, and next to no fans. Half their home games in the "Sunshine State" get rained out. The new stadium deal is on again off again, even I don't know what's going on anymore, and now they and the Oakland Athletics are both considered the latest contraction fodder. Clearly the Marlins do not draw. Couple this with the fact that Florida is one of 2 states for Spring Training, and it makes no sense to me to have put a team in Miami.

Staying in Florida, the Tampa Bay (Devil Dogs) Rays averaged 100 losses per year. This because they had the misfortune of being in the East along w/the "Let's buy all of our championships" Yankees & Red Sox. How the Rays managed to overcome both of them last year is still a head scratcher for me. Consider too the fact that the Rays & Phillies garnered the lowest ever ratings for a World Series, and the fact that this year the Rays again finished in 3rd, and it again makes me ask, why did baseball re-expand in Florida? If this team were to be contracted, would many notice or even care? I wouldn't, except for the fact that these teams also employ civilians.

Arizona. Even in 2001, when they won that series, MLB had to "bail them out" financially. So bailouts began long before 2008 in this country. Now they are subpar in a very subpar league and subpar division. Again, if they were to be contracted, I'd not mind it.

Colorado. A game snowed out. I mean, REALLY?!?!?! SNOWED OUT? Too bad the pinheads at MLB didn't take this into consideration almost 20 years ago when they felt Denver should get a baseball team. Then, they build a new stadium, but don't dome it? Again, REALLY?!?!?! It's only round ONE, and already games are getting snowed out! Clearly the season is too long. Clearly the non-essential "World Baseball Classic", a thing that maybe 7 people actually care to watch, pushed the season far too long. World Series ending after Election Day? Again I say REALLY?!?!?! What's going to happen if Colorado makes it to the World Series again? The "Fall Classic" being snowed out! It's happened before in Cleveland too, but why? Because World Series games are happening during the same week as Halloween!! Clearly, CLEARLY the WORLD SERIES should end by MID October. Clearly Colorado needs to be DOMED or DOOMED. Clearly, 30 teams are too many, and have been too many for too too long. Clearly it's all about the Yankees & Red Sox. Clearly the folks at FOX are already mad that the Angels are up 2-0 on Boston. ESPN too has the "boycrush" on Yankees Red Sox. Given the crappy ratings over the past several years for the World Series, part of it is about having games end at 1:30 in the blessed AM on the East Coast. A larger part of it is the fact that outside of maybe a half dozen teams or so, nobody knows who these teams are or who these players are. The NFL, for now, gets it somewhat right, at least if I say a team name, you know at least 1 or 2 players from that team right away. Not true in MLB. This too has contributed to, and will continue to contribute toward the growing apathy toward what used to be the National Pasttime.

Unless and until MLB fixes this, and they won't, this will continue to be the problem. Shorten the season to 154 (never gonna happen), Play more doubleheaders so the World Series can be over before Election Day (never gonna happen again, because after all, November is "sweeps month"). I'll always care about the game, I just am growing more and more apathetic toward those who are the alleged stewards of this once great game, both owners & players alike.

MLB, just like Game 3 of the NLDS, has left this fan snowed, left out in the cold, in perpetuity.

[Saintsfan]

Good points. I do personally think the MLB has to work out how to end the season a little earlier. Whether or not its a 154 game schedule and truncated post season, or starting the season a bit earlier or what. I also think that some more weekend post season games could be played during the daytime. I am not saying it would make a huge difference, but you would get less chance of freeze outs and the such like.

How much money do they Yankees or Red Sox, for instance, make from a sell out game? Would they really lose a ton of money cutting the schedule back again?

[infrared41]

Games are snowed out in April too. What do you think should be done about that? Not to mention that a snow storm on Oct. 10 is more the exception than the rule.

[zooropean]

Okay I know I'm a middle aged fuddy duddy 42 soon to be 43 year old guy. I know I am sounding more and more like my dad would if he were still alive today, and more like my uncle. I know this site is dominated by younger guys, 15 - 35, and that what I share here will seem very unpopular and I might get "flamed", but that's ok w/me, since it's 42 degrees, I wouldn't mind some "flames" today.

The postponed game in Colorado yesterday. I am not the least bit surprised by it. Back in '91, when Miami & Denver were announced as the 2 new cities to get teams, I liked it at first. When I realized that the Rockies were not going to be domed, I thought it was stupid. In retrospect, I think it was stupid for MLB to expand to Miami, Denver, Arizona and Tampa Bay.

The Marlins have 2 World titles, and next to no fans. Half their home games in the "Sunshine State" get rained out. The new stadium deal is on again off again, even I don't know what's going on anymore, and now they and the Oakland Athletics are both considered the latest contraction fodder. Clearly the Marlins do not draw. Couple this with the fact that Florida is one of 2 states for Spring Training, and it makes no sense to me to have put a team in Miami.

Staying in Florida, the Tampa Bay (Devil Dogs) Rays averaged 100 losses per year. This because they had the misfortune of being in the East along w/the "Let's buy all of our championships" Yankees & Red Sox. How the Rays managed to overcome both of them last year is still a head scratcher for me. Consider too the fact that the Rays & Phillies garnered the lowest ever ratings for a World Series, and the fact that this year the Rays again finished in 3rd, and it again makes me ask, why did baseball re-expand in Florida? If this team were to be contracted, would many notice or even care? I wouldn't, except for the fact that these teams also employ civilians.

Arizona. Even in 2001, when they won that series, MLB had to "bail them out" financially. So bailouts began long before 2008 in this country. Now they are subpar in a very subpar league and subpar division. Again, if they were to be contracted, I'd not mind it.

Colorado. A game snowed out. I mean, REALLY?!?!?! SNOWED OUT? Too bad the pinheads at MLB didn't take this into consideration almost 20 years ago when they felt Denver should get a baseball team. Then, they build a new stadium, but don't dome it? Again, REALLY?!?!?! It's only round ONE, and already games are getting snowed out! Clearly the season is too long. Clearly the non-essential "World Baseball Classic", a thing that maybe 7 people actually care to watch, pushed the season far too long. World Series ending after Election Day? Again I say REALLY?!?!?! What's going to happen if Colorado makes it to the World Series again? The "Fall Classic" being snowed out! It's happened before in Cleveland too, but why? Because World Series games are happening during the same week as Halloween!! Clearly, CLEARLY the WORLD SERIES should end by MID October. Clearly Colorado needs to be DOMED or DOOMED. Clearly, 30 teams are too many, and have been too many for too too long. Clearly it's all about the Yankees & Red Sox. Clearly the folks at FOX are already mad that the Angels are up 2-0 on Boston. ESPN too has the "boycrush" on Yankees Red Sox. Given the crappy ratings over the past several years for the World Series, part of it is about having games end at 1:30 in the blessed AM on the East Coast. A larger part of it is the fact that outside of maybe a half dozen teams or so, nobody knows who these teams are or who these players are. The NFL, for now, gets it somewhat right, at least if I say a team name, you know at least 1 or 2 players from that team right away. Not true in MLB. This too has contributed to, and will continue to contribute toward the growing apathy toward what used to be the National Pasttime.

Unless and until MLB fixes this, and they won't, this will continue to be the problem. Shorten the season to 154 (never gonna happen), Play more doubleheaders so the World Series can be over before Election Day (never gonna happen again, because after all, November is "sweeps month"). I'll always care about the game, I just am growing more and more apathetic toward those who are the alleged stewards of this once great game, both owners & players alike.

MLB, just like Game 3 of the NLDS, has left this fan snowed, left out in the cold, in perpetuity.

Marlins are getting their new stadium:

My link

You can't only contract one team, so the A's will find a home eventually. I was at some Twins-A's game in July and it was too bad that the A's aren't drawing well. Fans were into the game and very friendly. I hope the A's stay in the Bay Area.

Bud Selig said on ESPN radio the other day the won't reduce the schedule from 162 games, so forget that option. Just have to deal with the elements. I don't want to see the World Series ever moved to a neutral site.

[wdm1219inpenna]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yes, it is true that there are on occasion, snowed out games in April, but that is after all, in April, the beginning of the season, and those games can be, and often are, played either as double headers or during an off day for both teams. When you get delays in October (let's face it, it's already Oct 11th), and that pushes series back farther, it is bad. Teams that have already clinched (Dodgers & Angels) have to wait long enough for the next series to start. Now the Dodgers could be penalized if the weather is bad yet again in Denver.

I'm just saying that since retractable roofed domes seem all the rage, why wasn't this done in the first place back in '93 for the Rockies & Marlins? This way you'd not have to use humidors for baseballs, those things are meant for cigars after all!

Selig says 162 game schedule is kept, then fine, schedule 1 double header per month for each team. That will shave 6 days off right there. Don't play this needless World Baseball Classic either. That's the main thing this year. The post-season should have started Tuesday, September 29th this year. Now the regular post-season play doesn't start until a Wednesday, in case 2 spare days are needed to play tie-breaker games. To me, Minnesota should have won the division by default. If you blow a huge lead in Sept. like that, you don't deserve to win the division anyway, and the Tigers didn't win it. If a team trailing you catches you, then the team who draws even with you should just win the division automatically, to avoid having to play these 1 game tiebreakers all the time, that way the post-season can start on a Tuesday, and not a Wednesday.

Some want the first round to be a best of 7 series too, but have it where the wild card team only hosts 2 games, making it a 2-2-3 series. I rather like that idea, however, because of a lack of willingness of the teams to play 1 scheduled double-header a month, to shave some time off the calendar, I would be against this idea, because it would again push the World Series into November, and I'm sorry, but "November baseball" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "October baseball". I'm still not getting used to the idea of the Super Bowl not being played in January anymore. Maybe too it's a negative association for me because the first time the World Series had to be played in November was 2001, and the Super Bowl had to be played the first week of Feb., was due to the terrorist attacks, and I still associate November World Series games and February Super Bowl games with that.

I agree, a neutral site for the World Series would be a dreadful idea. I recognize there are no simple solutions, and I know Selig says they won't go to a 154 game schedule. Yet they did do a 144 game schedule in 1995 due to the lockout, and they did have the split season back in '81 where fewer games were played too. Just no easy solutions. It's a shame too, because MLB used to really be awesome to me, and I wish I could feel about it now the way I did when I was younger. I wish I could sit here and say "all 30 teams have a shot next year", but already we can eliminate Washington, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Baltimore, Toronto, Cincinnati without anyone batting an eye. The 2009 season's not even over yet and already we can pretty much assume none of those 6 teams will make post-season in 2010. That's 20% of the league out of it already. And chances are your Tampas, Texas's, Houstons, and Floridas won't contend either. So that's 10 teams out of 30, that's 1/3 of the league already probably out of the hunt for 2010. With the NFL it's much more difficult to be able to eliminate teams right away (although this season it's become easier already even).

[Sport]

More double headers is the best solution, but I disagree about eliminating one game playoffs. They're exciting and under your system the early season games would essentially be less valuable. If you want to get rid of one game playoffs then the division should come down to head-to-head. If the teams split the season series (not a likely occurrence) then have the 1 game playoff, but that would be a once-every-30-years event.

[oddball]

So how is a snow out any different than a rain out? Please explain? The game is postponed either way, so please explain that to me, and rain outs happen all throughout the season, so based on your flawed logic, all baseball teams should be contracted. Weather is weather, and you can't control it, and neither can the teams. You're probably the same guy who thinks that all teams in the southeast shouldn't have football teams because of hurricanes. Sweeps month and one game playoffs have nothing to do with the schedule, what it the problem is the 3 divisions. This wasn't a problem before because you had two divisions and before that just one division per league. You have this issue because of the added round, but guess what, the World Series use to be in September. Things change, and even the weather, real people just learn to deal with it. And to point something out, I'm 37, so age has nothing to do with it. Heck, at an altitude of 5,280 or a mile high, you'll have bad weather. But all that I read out of your posts is someone whining about things you and heck, we can't control. I'm still lost at the point of this post.

[infrared41]

So how is a snow out any different than a rain out? Please explain? The game is postponed either way, so please explain that to me, and rain outs happen all throughout the season, so based on your flawed logic, all baseball teams should be contracted. Weather is weather, and you can't control it, and neither can the teams. You're probably the same guy who thinks that all teams in the southeast shouldn't have football teams because of hurricanes. Sweeps month and one game playoffs have nothing to do with the schedule, what it the problem is the 3 divisions. This wasn't a problem before because you had two divisions and before that just one division per league. You have this issue because of the added round, but guess what, the World Series use to be in September. Things change, and even the weather, real people just learn to deal with it. And to point something out, I'm 37, so age has nothing to do with it. Heck, at an altitude of 5,280 or a mile high, you'll have bad weather. But all that I read out of your posts is someone whining about things you and heck, we can't control. I'm still lost at the point of this post.

Don't sweat it Oddball. Mr. Penna drops by every so often and writes a manifesto for us to comment on. Usually they're not too awful bad. This one was way off course but occasionally he can get a decent discussion going.

[ZapRowsdower8]

Day/night double headers on select Saturdays. That way the teams get to charge twice and the season ends a week or two earlier. Yes, I realize this won't ever happen.

[Saintsfan]

In fairness, I do think that a later and later season finish is an issue for the MLB. (not that the MLB will recognise that but never mind!) I do think that rain is an issue obviously, but then again you can't do much about that. It rains all year round. You can to some extent lessen the chance of a snow out by ending the season a couple of weeks earlier. And yes it isn't just Colorado that is a problem. There was that very cold series of games in Cleveland a while back. You lessen the risk by finding a way to end the season a couple of weeks earlier.

I don't suppose the MLB will see it as a problem, which is fine. I am sure the MLB can see bigger problems in the game that need sorting out. But I think its worthy of discussion.

[HedleyLamarr]

Again, MLB won't be shortening the season (either by the number of games, or scheduling doubleheaders) or shortening the playoffs. There's way too much money that a lot of parties will lose out on.

Games getting cancelled due to snow are rare.

[Your Name Here]

OK, the gametime temperature for Game 4 of the '07 Series, which was played in Denver on October 27, was 64 degrees.

[twi]

I have to agree. It makes no sense to me that the most important games of the year are played in vastly different conditions than 80% of the season. The Fall Classic is quickly becoming a false moniker.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

Okay I know I'm a middle aged fuddy duddy 42 soon to be 43 year old guy. I know I am sounding more and more like my dad would if he were still alive today, and more like my uncle. I know this site is dominated by younger guys, 15 - 35, and that what I share here will seem very unpopular and I might get "flamed", but that's ok w/me, since it's 42 degrees, I wouldn't mind some "flames" today.

The postponed game in Colorado yesterday. I am not the least bit surprised by it. Back in '91, when Miami & Denver were announced as the 2 new cities to get teams, I liked it at first. When I realized that the Rockies were not going to be domed, I thought it was stupid. In retrospect, I think it was stupid for MLB to expand to Miami, Denver, Arizona and Tampa Bay.

its the same situation with hockey in these cities.Except for colorado.

The Marlins have 2 World titles, and next to no fans. Half their home games in the "Sunshine State" get rained out. The new stadium deal is on again off again, even I don't know what's going on anymore, and now they and the Oakland Athletics are both considered the latest contraction fodder. Clearly the Marlins do not draw. Couple this with the fact that Florida is one of 2 states for Spring Training, and it makes no sense to me to have put a team in Miami.

Florida is a football state. Its a state where high school football and college football come before most of the pro teams. even then jacksonville is having problems going against high school football.

Staying in Florida, the Tampa Bay (Devil Dogs) Rays averaged 100 losses per year. This because they had the misfortune of being in the East along w/the "Let's buy all of our championships" Yankees & Red Sox. How the Rays managed to overcome both of them last year is still a head scratcher for me. Consider too the fact that the Rays & Phillies garnered the lowest ever ratings for a World Series, and the fact that this year the Rays again finished in 3rd, and it again makes me ask, why did baseball re-expand in Florida? If this team were to be contracted, would many notice or even care? I wouldn't, except for the fact that these teams also employ civilians.

Same situation as miami. its a primary high school, college, pro football market.

Arizona. Even in 2001, when they won that series, MLB had to "bail them out" financially. So bailouts began long before 2008 in this country. Now they are subpar in a very subpar league and subpar division. Again, if they were to be contracted, I'd not mind it.

see florida. though i'm surprised the d-backs don't draw better since the up until last year the cardinals played like for most of their existance in phoenix.

Colorado. A game snowed out. I mean, REALLY?!?!?! SNOWED OUT? Too bad the pinheads at MLB didn't take this into consideration almost 20 years ago when they felt Denver should get a baseball team. Then, they build a new stadium, but don't dome it? Again, REALLY?!?!?! It's only round ONE, and already games are getting snowed out!

how many times do the rockies really get snowed out? and if they do, its usually at the time of the year where they are eliminated from post season anyway. snow outs, rain outs, it happens.

Clearly the season is too long. Clearly the non-essential "World Baseball Classic", a thing that maybe 7 people actually care to watch, pushed the season far too long. World Series ending after Election Day? Again I say REALLY?!?!?! What's going to happen if Colorado makes it to the World Series again? The "Fall Classic" being snowed out! It's happened before in Cleveland too, but why? Because World Series games are happening during the same week as Halloween!! Clearly, CLEARLY the WORLD SERIES should end by MID October. Clearly Colorado needs to be DOMED or DOOMED.

I personally don't excited for the WBC so i wouldn't be saddened to see it go. as for baseball season being too long. its really no more longer than hockey or basketball. hockey starts in september with training camp and preseason and don't end until june with the stanley cup playoffs. as for colorado needing a domed stadium, if the owners felt they needed a domed stadium they would have domed it. so thats on the owners of the team. my feeling is they felt it was a summer sport and snow outs would be minimal so they no goed the dome.

Clearly, 30 teams are too many, and have been too many for too too long. Clearly it's all about the Yankees & Red Sox. Clearly the folks at FOX are already mad that the Angels are up 2-0 on Boston. ESPN too has the "boycrush" on Yankees Red Sox. Given the crappy ratings over the past several years for the World Series, part of it is about having games end at 1:30 in the blessed AM on the East Coast.

not sure what having 30 teams too many and espn's masturbatory love of the sox and yanks have to do with each other but i do agree it is one big wank fest between those two. i don't watch espn, i don't care about espn, and if i want to see a game i know where to see what game i want to see with out the espn yank/sox wankfest. as for games ending 1:30 in the morning, thats just the way games go. People watch hockey playoffs well in to the morning.

A larger part of it is the fact that outside of maybe a half dozen teams or so, nobody knows who these teams are or who these players are. The NFL, for now, gets it somewhat right, at least if I say a team name, you know at least 1 or 2 players from that team right away. Not true in MLB. This too has contributed to, and will continue to contribute toward the growing apathy toward what used to be the National Pasttime.

that I agree with you on. the nfl out of all the pro sports does the single best job in saturating fans with the product. casual fans know who the saints, cowboys buccaneers are. I know casual fans that barely could tell you who is on the islanders or the mets. I mention the islanders and people look at me like 'who dey?'. its not just baseball, its hockey too, probably worse for them. Apathy for the sport is clearly evident with the teams that are in danger of being relocated. That has to do with hockey doing a piss poor job of marketing the sport and teams in these troubled markets of putting together a consistantly winning teams. The only one that has gotten this right is the Dallas Stars. in many cases, baseball is looked at as your grandfather's sport, your dads sport. unfortunately that has alot to do with the sport simply being stuck in the past. People has moved on to football and other sports.

Unless and until MLB fixes this, and they won't, this will continue to be the problem. Shorten the season to 154 (never gonna happen), Play more doubleheaders so the World Series can be over before Election Day (never gonna happen again, because after all, November is "sweeps month"). I'll always care about the game, I just am growing more and more apathetic toward those who are the alleged stewards of this once great game, both owners & players alike.

MLB, just like Game 3 of the NLDS, has left this fan snowed, left out in the cold, in perpetuity.

i say don't sweat the small stuff and just enjoy watching the sport. watch your team, cheer them on and go about life. all i can say about that.

.....

[OnWis97]

As much as I'd like a way to shorten the season, it won't happen. The last scheduled double-header was in the 1990s and even rain make ups are not one ticket for two games. There is too much revenue to be lost. In order to get a 154 game season, the players union would have to agree to an across the board proportionate salary cut, so forget about it. There is a ton of revenue to be lost for any game to be eliminated.

I initially like the idea of more day-night double headers, which would suit the Yanks, Sox and Cubs just fine, but would probably dilute the Saturday crowd for most other teams, and only somewhat mitigate the problem caused by a traditional double header.

The only viable way to avoid October cold (a couple inches snowed on Target field yesterday, but that's rare) is to start earlier. I agree that snow-outs are worse in postseason than in April. However, you don't want it happening all the time and you don't want teams playing in 22 degree whether...and you don't want to totally ruin the integrity of the schedules by having Boston, Cleveland, Minnesota, Chicago, New York, etc. open up on the road for three weeks.

If it was up to me, I'd start the season a week earlier. That would keep the World Series away from the brink of November and provide some help with more meaningful games being played in better weather. It would lead to more cold weather baseball in late march and early April--those games should be focused on intra-division games, so there is plenty of time to make them up. And about once every five or ten years, you may get a Cleveland playing in Milwaukee scenario.

[BBTV]

Eliminate the All Star Game, and the All Star Break, and just schedule games on those days.

[infrared41]

Eliminate the All Star Game, and the All Star Break, and just schedule games on those days.

Seconded. Since the advent of inter league play the All-Star game is pretty much useless.

[-kj]

It's an exhibition of all-star teams. Duh, it's always been "useless".

[rams80]

It's an exhibition of all-star teams. Duh, it's always been "useless".

But this time it counts!

[The_Admiral]

I don't think it destroys the integrity of the schedule to make home games scarce in Chicago, Minneapolis, and thereabouts for the first few weeks. It's common sense, to be offset by not scheduling games on the hottest days in Dallas and Miami. I can't believe how many people repeatedly submit lopping eight games off the season. Owners and players like to make money.

They did start the season awfully late, though. Let's not do the fake Olympics again.