Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[John in KY]

It is better than bringing back the Metro. Reviving a dead league name is problematic, plus it'd be the same problem if they go out of region again (ECU isn't metro) or whatever. This name gives them the flexibility to do whatever they want and it's a nice trick to force people to start calling them the AAC and to get them confused.

I like it.

"Metro" doesn't refer to a region, which makes it perfect for this league. Greenville, NC may not be a bustling metropolis, but neither were Blacksburg, VA or Hattiesburg, MS.

True, but to kind of prove the point about the name Virginia Tech and Southern Miss were replacements for more "Metro" teams of Georgia Tech and St. Louis.

[illwauk]

In a world where Missouri is "Southeastern" and Colorado is "Pacific," that still doesn't bother me. At least those towns can still qualify as "metro" under the broadest definition of the word.

[John in KY]

Okay - I guess that the power conferences are taking a brief Final Four break from reorganizing and letting the Big East complete it's disintigration into the "new" Big East and the AAC.

What's happens next? Do the SEC and BIG 10 stick at 14 for a couple of years, or do they start going after more ACC and Big 12 teams? What about the PAC 12? How where do they go for expansion - picking off better mid-majors like Boise St and San Diego St or trying to also poach from the Big 12 (with the assumption that the 14 SEC and 14 BIG 10 schools are "unpoachable")?

[pianoknight]

Okay - I guess that the power conferences are taking a brief Final Four break from reorganizing and letting the Big East complete it's disintigration into the "new" Big East and the AAC.

What's happens next? Do the SEC and BIG 10 stick at 14 for a couple of years, or do they start going after more ACC and Big 12 teams? What about the PAC 12? How where do they go for expansion - picking off better mid-majors like Boise St and San Diego St or trying to also poach from the Big 12 (with the assumption that the 14 SEC and 14 BIG 10 schools are "unpoachable")?

I really think that the advent of the playoff system in 2014 will all but force us to have four "power" conferences. My guess is that either the Big 12 or ACC gets absorbed/folded into other conferences and possibly aligns itself with the SEC, much like the B1G and PAC are paired up with the Rose Bowl.

Essentially, it's like the B1G/PAC becomes the NFC and the SEC/ACCBig12 becomes the AFC, really. Winners play in the title.

[hailstateunis]

I believe the Big 12 and the SEC have already set up the Sugar Bowl for a game like that.

[Lights Out]

What about the PAC 12? How where do they go for expansion - picking off better mid-majors like Boise St and San Diego St or trying to also poach from the Big 12 (with the assumption that the 14 SEC and 14 BIG 10 schools are "unpoachable")?

For what it's worth, Larry Scott said a while back that the PAC was "keeping an eye on" BSU and SDSU as possible expansion targets.

[Burkell007]

Might as well add bsu, sdsu, UNLV and byu and then call it good

[John in KY]

Might as well add bsu, sdsu, UNLV and byu and then call it good

That is about all they can do without absorbing some Big 12 schools - although they would have to get over the "no religious-affiliated schools" stance to accept BYU.

Another random thought - if the end game is really 4 20-school conferences what happens to Notre Dame? Do they have to finally join in because they would be reduced to only scheduling mid-majors as I'm sure that teams from the 4 conferences would find their schedules pretty filled. I know their ACC deal gives them scheduling access to 5 games per year from other member schools, but if the ACC collapses under the 4 conference alignment then they are back to square one. I know this has been discussed earlier in this thread, but the situation is fluid enough that its probably worth bringing up again.

[Burkell007]

Never knew that about the pac12 so if not byu then who? Colorado st? Air Force? Or Hawaii?

[rams80]

Pac 12 doesn't have an issue with Bible Thumpers. It's just that when the Bible (or Book of Mormon) Thumpers decline to participate in sporting events on the Sabbath that problems arise. That's a huge scheduling headache.

[pianoknight]

Pac 12 doesn't have an issue with Bible Thumpers. It's just that when the Bible (or Book of Mormon) Thumpers decline to participate in sporting events on the Sabbath that problems arise. That's a huge scheduling headache.

The Pac-12 as a conference doesn't have problems with private religious institutions, but some of the member schools (see: "Science, Not God!" Snobs at Stanford) are more than happy to block a religious school.

Also, the two UC-system schools (UCLA, Cal) have given off the impression that they would not want to mix the "Californias" and the "California States". So in theory, schools like UC-Irvine and UC-Santa Cruz would stand a better chance than San Diego State, San Jose State, Cal State Fullerton, etc... Of course SDSU is probably the next best athletic department out there besides the "Big 4 Californias" that are already in the Pac-12.

Finally, the league strongly prefers major research institutions, so that's another strike against schools like UNLV and especially Boise State. Up until recently, BSU offered a Truck Driving Program and they're basically the academic equivalent of ITT Tech.

The Pac-12 really can't seem to get a consistent message or concept about what they want.

[illwauk]

Pac 12 doesn't have an issue with Bible Thumpers. It's just that when the Bible (or Book of Mormon) Thumpers decline to participate in sporting events on the Sabbath that problems arise. That's a huge scheduling headache.

The Pac-12 as a conference doesn't have problems with private religious institutions, but some of the member schools (see: "Science, Not God!" Snobs at Stanford) are more than happy to block a religious school.

Also, the two UC-system schools (UCLA, Cal) have given off the impression that they would not want to mix the "Californias" and the "California States". So in theory, schools like UC-Irvine and UC-Santa Cruz would stand a better chance than San Diego State, San Jose State, Cal State Fullerton, etc... Of course SDSU is probably the next best athletic department out there besides the "Big 4 Californias" that are already in the Pac-12.

Finally, the league strongly prefers major research institutions, so that's another strike against schools like UNLV and especially Boise State. Up until recently, BSU offered a Truck Driving Program and they're basically the academic equivalent of ITT Tech.

The Pac-12 really can't seem to get a consistent message or concept about what they want.

I think it's quite clear what they want, they've just tapped the bottom of the well as far as what's available without reaching further into Big XII country.

[dfwabel]

Pac 12 doesn't have an issue with Bible Thumpers. It's just that when the Bible (or Book of Mormon) Thumpers decline to participate in sporting events on the Sabbath that problems arise. That's a huge scheduling headache.

The Pac-12 as a conference doesn't have problems with private religious institutions, but some of the member schools (see: "Science, Not God!" Snobs at Stanford) are more than happy to block a religious school.

Also, the two UC-system schools (UCLA, Cal) have given off the impression that they would not want to mix the "Californias" and the "California States". So in theory, schools like UC-Irvine and UC-Santa Cruz would stand a better chance than San Diego State, San Jose State, Cal State Fullerton, etc... Of course SDSU is probably the next best athletic department out there besides the "Big 4 Californias" that are already in the Pac-12.

Finally, the league strongly prefers major research institutions, so that's another strike against schools like UNLV and especially Boise State. Up until recently, BSU offered a Truck Driving Program and they're basically the academic equivalent of ITT Tech.

The Pac-12 really can't seem to get a consistent message or concept about what they want.

FWIW, Fresno State is the better athletic program because they win national championships. Downside is that for the majority of the last 25 years, the university/athletic department has an abysmal track record of gender equity/Title IX issues also has been in the court room for gender discrimination and sexual harassment on three different occasions; losing two cases outright by jury and reaching settlement in the other one.

[pianoknight]

Yeah those cases probably had women judges, anyway.

[dfwabel]

Yeah those cases probably had women judges, anyway.

Nope, two white male Fresno County Superior Court judges were presiding for both Vivas and Johnson-Klein.

Vivas' jury was made up of nine women and three men who were unanimous on eight of 12 counts and found Fresno State guilty on 12 of 13 counts.

Johnson-Klein's jury, which had other more serious issues to hear, was made up of 11 women and one man, but that was approved by both parties.

The s#it going on at Fresno State went back to 1992. I am not sure you have ever seen their timeline of problems, up until both of those trials. It is odd to know that the MWC did not find them as too hot to handle since Welty was still president at their time of invitation. All which is listed occurred under Welty, who became president in 1991.

They were committing so many violations that the NCAA put John Welty on their Executive Committee and other task force(s) just to keep a closer eye on what they were doing. Now that he is retiring as Fresno State president, keep an eye out on who is a finalist for the position and who is ultimately chosen.

EDIT: I gave you, 'pianoknight' one specific Fresno State link over their Title IX issues, would you like the trial links too?

Edited April 11, 2013 by dfwabel

[rams80]

The Pac-12 as a conference doesn't have problems with private religious institutions, but some of the member schools (see: "Science, Not God!" Snobs at Stanford) are more than happy to block a religious school.

The Pac-12 has since done away with liberum veto with regards to expansion more or less as a direct consequence of Stanford's scuttling of the BYU add back in the 90s.

FWIW I believe Brigham Young does not teach Young Earth Creationism in the biology classroom, so they have that going for them at least.

[Lights Out]

Might as well add bsu, sdsu, UNLV and byu and then call it good

BYU probably won't get into a major conference until they drop their objection to playing on the Sabbath.

[chuckymack]

^^^ Bam. That's their issue.

[Burmy]

Might as well add bsu, sdsu, UNLV and byu and then call it good

BYU probably won't get into a major conference until they drop their objection to playing on the Sabbath.

ALL college football teams play on the Sabbath (Saturday). BYU's objection is playing on Sunday, which is the "Lord's Day."

[crashcarson15]

Might as well add bsu, sdsu, UNLV and byu and then call it good

BYU probably won't get into a major conference until they drop their objection to playing on the Sabbath.

ALL college football teams play on the Sabbath (Saturday). BYU's objection is playing on Sunday, which is the "Lord's Day."

No, BYU's objection is playing on the Sabbath.