NHL 2010-2011

[SHaMROCK]

So if the Seals can go home why can't the Jets?

I hope they can. I'm from Hamilton and share the dream of wanting an NHL franchise for Hamilton. But I never wanted the Coyotes to relocate here, if they move they should go home. Playing out of Hamilton would have been just as much of and injustice as playing out of Phoenix. Now the Thrashers on the other hand... hmm...

[nash61]

1967 - California Seals begin play as one of the "Next Six"

1967 - renamed Oakland Seals (November)

1970 - renamed California Golden Seals

1976 - relocated to Cleveland, renamed Cleveland Barons

1978 - franchise merges with Minnesota North Stars

1991 - franchise disolves merger with Minnesota North Stars, relocates to San Jose, renamed San Jose Sharks

That's stretching it a bit.

The current NHL team in the Bay Area, the San Jose Sharks, has a historical connection to the Seals. Years after the Barons-North Stars merger, the Gunds wanted to bring hockey back to the Bay Area. They asked the NHL for permission to move the North Stars there in the late 1980s, but the league was unwilling to abandon a traditional hockey market like the Twin Cities. Meanwhile, a group led by former Hartford Whalers owner Howard Baldwin was pushing the NHL to bring a team to San Jose, where an arena was being built. Eventually, a compromise was struck whereby the Gunds would sell their share of the North Stars to Baldwin's group, with the Gunds receiving an expansion team in the Bay Area to begin play in the 1991-92 season. In return, the North Stars would be allowed to participate as an equal partner in an expansion draft with the new franchise. On May 5, 1990, the Gunds officially sold their share of the North Stars to Baldwin and were awarded a new team in the Bay Area that would eventually become the Sharks.

On May 5, 1990, the Gunds officially sold their share of the North Stars to Baldwin and were awarded a new team for the Bay Area, based in San Jose. Over 5,000 potential names were submitted by mail for the new team. While the first-place finisher was "Blades," the Gunds were concerned about the name's potentially negative association with weapons, and went with the runner-up, "Sharks." The name was said to have been inspired by the large number of sharks living in the Pacific Ocean. Seven different varieties live there, and one area of water near the Bay Area is known as the "red triangle" because of its shark population. The team's first marketing head, Matt Levine, said of the new name, "Sharks are relentless, determined, swift, agile, bright and fearless. We plan to build an organization that has all those qualities."

[The Giant Pacific Octopus]

I don't know how there can be any debate about the Seals/Barons/Sharks history.

1967 - California Seals begin play as one of the "Next Six"

1967 - renamed Oakland Seals (November)

1970 - renamed California Golden Seals

1976 - relocated to Cleveland, renamed Cleveland Barons

1978 - franchise merges with Minnesota North Stars

1991 - franchise disolves merger with Minnesota North Stars, relocates to San Jose, renamed San Jose Sharks

The last point is incorrect. There was never an unmerger. The San Jose Sharks were a brand new franchise. They were an expansion team and the Gund brothers had to pay an expansion fee for the team. They were a brand new franchise.

They were able to bring some of the North Star players with them to San Jose (via a dispersal draft) because of the deal they cut with Howard Baldwin (when he bought the North Stars from them). But the Sharks franchise is brand new and not a continuation of the Seals/Barons franchise.

From the 1990 Montreal Gazette

The National Hockey League has approved the sale of the Minnesota North Stars to a group headed by Howard Baldwin, former minority owner of the Hartford Whalers, league president John Ziegler said yesterday. As expected, the deal includes a condition that will allow the Gund family - who are selling the North Stars - to start an expansion team in the San Francisco Bay-area in the 1991-92 season. After two days of a closed-door meeting of the NHL board of governors, Ziegler told a news conference the sale was approved with several conditions. But he said the North Stars will remain in Bloomington, Minn. Baldwin will pay $31.5 U.S. million for the North Stars and the Gunds will pay $50 million for the expansion franchise. The new team may play in San Jose, San Francisco or another Bay-area region, said Gordon Gund. "It was very important for all the governors to do everything necessary to make sure that the capital city of hockey in the U.S.A. was being represented by a good product and a good ownership," said Marcel Aubut of the Quebec Nordiques. Baldwin and partner Morris Belzberg, the former president of Budget Rent-A-Car in the United States, recently struck the deal to buy the North Stars. New arena in 1992-93 The Gunds, who have owned the North Stars since they merged their Cleveland Barons with the Minnesota team in 1978, will likely house their new club in the Cow Palace near San Francisco in 1991-92 before moving it to a new arena in San Jose the next season. While the North Stars flourished for several years, the Gunds said they lost 16 million in the last three years. Baldwin, decked out in a tie covered with stars, said he's glad to be in the NHL. "This is a very positive solution," said Baldwin, who turns 48 on Monday. "I'm thrilled to be back in the NHL." The Gunds will also get an undisclosed number of players and draft choices from Minnesota to form a nucleus of the new club. Then, to stock the Gunds' franchise and restock Minnesota, an expansion draft will be held in June 1991. Clubs will be allowed to protect 16 skaters and two goaltenders. Unsigned draft choices and players with less than two seasons won't be eligible for the draft. First pick in draft The Gunds will have first selection in the expansion draft, followed by Minnesota. Ziegler, who invited applications for two more franchises to begin play in 1992-93, said there will be another expansion draft tentatively set for June 1992 for up to two more new clubs. NHL clubs will then be allowed to protect only 14 skaters and two goaltenders. Again, players who have played less than two seasons and unsigned draft picks will not be eligible. Ziegler, discussing the decision to accept applications for two NHL expansion franchises, said they must prove the availability of a state-of-the-art facility with luxury seating.

So as you can see the North Stars wee sold while the Sharks were a brand new expansion team. Any remants of the Seals/Barons is still within the Stars organization.

[IceCap]

I don't know how there can be any debate about the Seals/Barons/Sharks history.

1967 - California Seals begin play as one of the "Next Six"

1967 - renamed Oakland Seals (November)

1970 - renamed California Golden Seals

1976 - relocated to Cleveland, renamed Cleveland Barons

1978 - franchise merges with Minnesota North Stars

1991 - franchise disolves merger with Minnesota North Stars, relocates to San Jose, renamed San Jose Sharks

The last point is incorrect. There was never an unmerger. The San Jose Sharks were a brand new franchise. They were an expansion team and the Gund brothers had to pay an expansion fee for the team. They were a brand new franchise.

They were able to bring some of the North Star players with them to San Jose (via a dispersal draft) because of the deal they cut with Howard Baldwin (when he bought the North Stars from them). But the Sharks franchise is brand new and not a continuation of the Seals/Barons franchise.

From the 1990 Montreal Gazette

The National Hockey League has approved the sale of the Minnesota North Stars to a group headed by Howard Baldwin, former minority owner of the Hartford Whalers, league president John Ziegler said yesterday. As expected, the deal includes a condition that will allow the Gund family - who are selling the North Stars - to start an expansion team in the San Francisco Bay-area in the 1991-92 season. After two days of a closed-door meeting of the NHL board of governors, Ziegler told a news conference the sale was approved with several conditions. But he said the North Stars will remain in Bloomington, Minn. Baldwin will pay $31.5 U.S. million for the North Stars and the Gunds will pay $50 million for the expansion franchise. The new team may play in San Jose, San Francisco or another Bay-area region, said Gordon Gund. "It was very important for all the governors to do everything necessary to make sure that the capital city of hockey in the U.S.A. was being represented by a good product and a good ownership," said Marcel Aubut of the Quebec Nordiques. Baldwin and partner Morris Belzberg, the former president of Budget Rent-A-Car in the United States, recently struck the deal to buy the North Stars. New arena in 1992-93 The Gunds, who have owned the North Stars since they merged their Cleveland Barons with the Minnesota team in 1978, will likely house their new club in the Cow Palace near San Francisco in 1991-92 before moving it to a new arena in San Jose the next season. While the North Stars flourished for several years, the Gunds said they lost 16 million in the last three years. Baldwin, decked out in a tie covered with stars, said he's glad to be in the NHL. "This is a very positive solution," said Baldwin, who turns 48 on Monday. "I'm thrilled to be back in the NHL." The Gunds will also get an undisclosed number of players and draft choices from Minnesota to form a nucleus of the new club. Then, to stock the Gunds' franchise and restock Minnesota, an expansion draft will be held in June 1991. Clubs will be allowed to protect 16 skaters and two goaltenders. Unsigned draft choices and players with less than two seasons won't be eligible for the draft. First pick in draft The Gunds will have first selection in the expansion draft, followed by Minnesota. Ziegler, who invited applications for two more franchises to begin play in 1992-93, said there will be another expansion draft tentatively set for June 1992 for up to two more new clubs. NHL clubs will then be allowed to protect only 14 skaters and two goaltenders. Again, players who have played less than two seasons and unsigned draft picks will not be eligible. Ziegler, discussing the decision to accept applications for two NHL expansion franchises, said they must prove the availability of a state-of-the-art facility with luxury seating.

So as you can see the North Stars wee sold while the Sharks were a brand new expansion team. Any remants of the Seals/Barons is still within the Stars organization.

Sorry, no. The fact that the Gunds got to take a number of players from the North Stars to establish the nucleus of the Sharks proves that the NHL was treating the whole thing as the Seals and North Stars unmerging, with the unmerged Seals becoming the Sharks.

[youcan'tseeme]

I don't know how there can be any debate about the Seals/Barons/Sharks history.

1967 - California Seals begin play as one of the "Next Six"

1967 - renamed Oakland Seals (November)

1970 - renamed California Golden Seals

1976 - relocated to Cleveland, renamed Cleveland Barons

1978 - franchise merges with Minnesota North Stars

1991 - franchise disolves merger with Minnesota North Stars, relocates to San Jose, renamed San Jose Sharks

The last point is incorrect. There was never an unmerger. The San Jose Sharks were a brand new franchise. They were an expansion team and the Gund brothers had to pay an expansion fee for the team. They were a brand new franchise.

They were able to bring some of the North Star players with them to San Jose (via a dispersal draft) because of the deal they cut with Howard Baldwin (when he bought the North Stars from them). But the Sharks franchise is brand new and not a continuation of the Seals/Barons franchise.

From the 1990 Montreal Gazette

The National Hockey League has approved the sale of the Minnesota North Stars to a group headed by Howard Baldwin, former minority owner of the Hartford Whalers, league president John Ziegler said yesterday. As expected, the deal includes a condition that will allow the Gund family - who are selling the North Stars - to start an expansion team in the San Francisco Bay-area in the 1991-92 season. After two days of a closed-door meeting of the NHL board of governors, Ziegler told a news conference the sale was approved with several conditions. But he said the North Stars will remain in Bloomington, Minn. Baldwin will pay $31.5 U.S. million for the North Stars and the Gunds will pay $50 million for the expansion franchise. The new team may play in San Jose, San Francisco or another Bay-area region, said Gordon Gund. "It was very important for all the governors to do everything necessary to make sure that the capital city of hockey in the U.S.A. was being represented by a good product and a good ownership," said Marcel Aubut of the Quebec Nordiques. Baldwin and partner Morris Belzberg, the former president of Budget Rent-A-Car in the United States, recently struck the deal to buy the North Stars. New arena in 1992-93 The Gunds, who have owned the North Stars since they merged their Cleveland Barons with the Minnesota team in 1978, will likely house their new club in the Cow Palace near San Francisco in 1991-92 before moving it to a new arena in San Jose the next season. While the North Stars flourished for several years, the Gunds said they lost 16 million in the last three years. Baldwin, decked out in a tie covered with stars, said he's glad to be in the NHL. "This is a very positive solution," said Baldwin, who turns 48 on Monday. "I'm thrilled to be back in the NHL." The Gunds will also get an undisclosed number of players and draft choices from Minnesota to form a nucleus of the new club. Then, to stock the Gunds' franchise and restock Minnesota, an expansion draft will be held in June 1991. Clubs will be allowed to protect 16 skaters and two goaltenders. Unsigned draft choices and players with less than two seasons won't be eligible for the draft. First pick in draft The Gunds will have first selection in the expansion draft, followed by Minnesota. Ziegler, who invited applications for two more franchises to begin play in 1992-93, said there will be another expansion draft tentatively set for June 1992 for up to two more new clubs. NHL clubs will then be allowed to protect only 14 skaters and two goaltenders. Again, players who have played less than two seasons and unsigned draft picks will not be eligible. Ziegler, discussing the decision to accept applications for two NHL expansion franchises, said they must prove the availability of a state-of-the-art facility with luxury seating.

So as you can see the North Stars wee sold while the Sharks were a brand new expansion team. Any remants of the Seals/Barons is still within the Stars organization.

Sorry, no. The fact that the Gunds got to take a number of players from the North Stars to establish the nucleus of the Sharks proves that the NHL was treating the whole thing as the Seals and North Stars unmerging, with the unmerged Seals becoming the Sharks.

I have to agree, that's the only way I see it.

[The Giant Pacific Octopus]

Sorry, no. The fact that the Gunds got to take a number of players from the North Stars to establish the nucleus of the Sharks proves that the NHL was treating the whole thing as the Seals and North Stars unmerging, with the unmerged Seals becoming the Sharks.

Sorry no. The fact is it was not an unmerger. This isn't opinion but fact. The Gunds wanted to move the North Stars to Oakland in 1990. Howard Baldwin was applying for a expansion team at that time in San Jose. The NHL worked out a deal where the Gunds would be given an expansion team in San Jose, if they sold the North Stars to a group willing to keep the team in Minnesota. Baldwin wanted to own a team and was was willing to take the North Stars by buying them off of the Gunds. The Gunds offered to drop the price if they could take some players with them via a dispersal draft so they wouldn't have to build the entire team from scratch via an expansion draft, and Baldwin agreed.

The Sharks were an expansion team. The Gunds had to pay an expansion fee for them. If they seperated the Barons and moved them back to San Jose , then they wouldn't be considered an expansion team and the Gunds would not have to pay an expansion fee for an existing franchise seperating from another existing franchise and then relocating.

Furthermore The NHL does not consider the Sharks a continuation of the Seals/Barons franchise. When the NHL released the book The Official National Hockey League 75th anniversary commemorative book in 1991 (an official NHL publication) they have a list of the NHL franchises near the back (current and defunct). The San Jose Sharks are listed as a seperate entity from the Seals/Barons.

Furthermore Gil Stein who worked with then president John Ziegler and succeeded him as president a year later confirmed it wasn't a merger in chapter 6 of his book Power Plays: An Inside Look at the Big Business of the National Hockey League, under the chapter "The Noon Balloon to Saskatoon", (p 116-137) and was made it clear that it was not an unmerger. And he actually worked on this sale/expansion deal with the Gunds and Baldwin moreso then Ziegler actually did.

[CJR]

Sorry, no. The fact that the Gunds got to take a number of players from the North Stars to establish the nucleus of the Sharks proves that the NHL was treating the whole thing as the Seals and North Stars unmerging, with the unmerged Seals becoming the Sharks.

Sorry no. The fact is it was not an unmerger. This isn't opinion but fact. The Gunds wanted to move the North Stars to Oakland in 1990. Howard Baldwin was applying for a expansion team at that time in San Jose. The NHL worked out a deal where the Gunds would be given an expansion team in San Jose, if they sold the North Stars to a group willing to keep the team in Minnesota. Baldwin wanted to own a team and was was willing to take the North Stars by buying them off of the Gunds. The Gunds offered to drop the price if they could take some players with them via a dispersal draft so they wouldn't have to build the entire team from scratch via an expansion draft, and Baldwin agreed.

The Sharks were an expansion team. The Gunds had to pay an expansion fee for them. If they seperated the Barons and moved them back to San Jose , then they wouldn't be considered an expansion team and the Gunds would not have to pay an expansion fee for an existing franchise seperating from another existing franchise and then relocating.

Furthermore The NHL does not consider the Sharks a continuation of the Seals/Barons franchise. When the NHL released the book The Official National Hockey League 75th anniversary commemorative book in 1991 (an official NHL publication) they have a list of the NHL franchises near the back (current and defunct). The San Jose Sharks are listed as a seperate entity from the Seals/Barons.

Furthermore Gil Stein who worked with then president John Ziegler and succeeded him as president a year later confirmed it wasn't a merger in chapter 6 of his book Power Plays: An Inside Look at the Big Business of the National Hockey League, under the chapter "The Noon Balloon to Saskatoon", (p 116-137) and was made it clear that it was not an unmerger. And he actually worked on this sale/expansion deal with the Gunds and Baldwin moreso then Ziegler actually did.

Essentially, the expansion Sharks bought half the Minnesota roster. Or call it a trade, cash plus X number of expansion draft picks for Y number of players.

[Morgan33]

You're needlessly bitter.

Nah.

I don't think only "old" logos are better. You and Lights Out really need to stop assuming that just because I dislike the gaudy stuff you gush over.

How is the understated, thing of beauty that is the Senators original logo gaudy? I would like that explained because to me it always seemed like pure class. Is it because of the Gold or the laurels or was it the fact it actually depicts something that threw you off?

How a Roman centurion represents Ottawa escapes me. In fact you're stretching to try and connect it to the name "Senators" at all. In fact there is no connection when you realize the team is named after the Canadian Senate, which is known for its better overall attendance then the House of Commons and its lack of Roman centurions

As I have said a million times the Centurion represents the Senator, the "O" its placed in represents the city. Roman Senators could also be appointed generals so it is very likely they wore helmets in the battlefield. Also ever heard of the analogy between war and a playoff series? Sending a group into battle for the ultimate prize? Anything ringing a bell there?

A circle does not automatically equate to an O.

An "O" by very definition is a circle... or an oval depending on the font. The "O" on the "classic" logo looks more like a zero to me. But hey logos are subjective right?

Anyway the inability to represent a senator is my point. It's hard to do, so just ignore it and focus on the city. The =O= does that while no Roman themed logo does.

Just because depicting an actual Senator would look ridiculous doesn't mean you should just give up on represented your teams name all together. Fact is the "O" could represent any team from Ottawa regardless of name. Thats not a sign of a good logo.

Hey, you asked. Sorry if those pesky "facts" are screwing up your argument.

I already admitted that I didn't know that when I asked. I come here to talk about logos. Knowledge of when teams and leagues are established is secondary.

We'll deal with this Stanley Cup nonsense first. Lets assume that the connection between the original Senators and the new Senators was made official, and the team officially goes on record having 11 Cups. So what? As I mentioned above most of those Cups came from the "challenge" era of the Cup's history, when the champions had to defend the Cup against teams from many different leagues across Canada. The Cup wasn't the property of any one league at that point. Also, your notion that the Cups are somehow worth less because they come from a different era is moronic. Should we strip most of the Montreal Canadiens' Cups from them?

It hasn't and it won't. And no your arguement is moronic because the Habs didn't have a six decade of inactivity between two entirely different teams. What does the Senators first secondary logo say in roman numerals? Established in 1992!

Ok. Onto the team. This is nothing like what the Lightning did. The Lightning started up in a market without any previous hockey history and built their own traditions up from nothing. Then they threw it all away to play Original Six.

The Senators started up in a market with a deep and rich hockey history, and embraced that with their new team, using the name and colours of the original Senators. The Lightning started their own tradition from scratch, the Senators were building on a tradition that was already there. That's why I think it's ok for the Senators to go with a more old school look that emphasis the =O=. It's part of what the team is. The fans just want the Senators to embrace their city's rich hockey traditions, much like the Leafs do in Toronto and the Habs do in Montreal. The NHL needs to do the classy thing and make the continuation official.

They also need to grant the Sharks the history of the Seals/Barons, but that's a different discussion.

Nope the original Senators never had gold in their colour scheme. Nor did they have a roman theme nor did their jerseys look anything similar. Embrace the traditions with a secondary logo or heritage jersey... oh wait! Thats exactly what they're doing! Ditching everything that represented the team from their inaugural year to their 19th season is a huge mistake. Its all moot though since there are NO plans to make this happen in the near future. The Updated forward facing Senator will be the primary eventually. Bank on it.

[Gothamite]

The Updated forward facing Senator will be the primary eventually. Bank on it.

You mean the profile logo?

Easy to say, hard to prove.

Best indication would be merchandise sales - if the profile logo outsells the 3/4 logo, then it stands to reason that the team will favor it. Just from perusing the online shop, that doesn't appear to be the case.

[The_Admiral]

You can argue whether or not the Seals are the Sharks forever and ever. Despite the legal minutiae leading up to it, what you had happen was the Gunds start a new SF Bay team with 50% of the North Stars, who used to be 50% of their old SF Bay team. On the other hand, the Sharks claim no direct lineage to the Seals, because why would you, and there is all that legal wrangling and so forth. So whatever. Everyone's a winner. Except the Sharks. They'll never win anything.

They said that the success of the San Jose Sharks jerseys led them to adopt the Roman look because it would appeal to children (much like those original Sharks jerseys did).

KIDZ GO CRAZY~! FOR STOIC ROMAN ARMY COMMANDERS!

No wonder this franchise couldn't find its ass with both hands for like ten years.

[uniformity]

Who really cares whether the Ottawa Senators are officially the same franchise as the old Senators or not. A number of different teams in various leagues have used the Ottawa Senators name and/or worn red, black and white barber-pole uniforms. This is the tradition of Ottawa hockey and they should embrace it.

[The Giant Pacific Octopus]

Essentially, the expansion Sharks bought half the Minnesota roster. Or call it a trade, cash plus X number of expansion draft picks for Y number of players.

Well thats one way of putting it. In the NHL book I cited in my earlier post it says this on page 315. Now remember not only was this book an official NHL publication but was written in 1990 and published in 1991 when all this was happening and current. I'll put the key points in bold.

Prior to the end of the 1990 playoffs, the league announced that it would return to the San Francisco Bay Area by granting a new franchise to begin play in 1991-92 in San Jose, California. The owners of the new franchise-later named the San Jose Sharks-were George and Gordon Gund, who had previously owned the Minnesota North Stars. The awarding of the franchise stemmed from the Gunds' earlier announcement of their intention to move the North Stars to the Bay Area because of continuing financial losses in Minnesota.

The NHL's governors, who had previously announced plans to expand in the 1990's, maintained their opposition to franchise relocation. When investors came forward to purchase the North Stars (Howard Baldwin and Morris Belzberg) and keep them in Minnesota, the Gunds were then granted a new franchise in San Jose. An agreement between the two ownership groups established a "cross-pollination" draft that would enable the Sharks to secure the rights to a number of players in the North Stars organization after the conclusion of the 1991 playoffs. Having lost players in the cross-pollination draft, the North Stars would then participate with the Sharks in an expansion draft in which each NHL franchise would lose one player to the two clubs.

So as you can see the NHL refers to the team as an expansion club and not an unmerger. I also cited above Gil Stein's book (including page numbers for reference) where he talked about the club being a new franchise. While Stein was the Vice Preisdent of the league at this time, he was involved in the day to day business of the league moreso than John Ziegler (the President) because Ziegler was planning on leaving the following year and Stein was being weaned as his replacment. Stein is the one who brokered this deal with both the Gunds and Baldwin, so if he said it was expansion and not an unmerger I tend to believe him.

At the same time the press that was covering all this never mentioned the Sharks being an unmerger of the Barons/Seals but rather a new expansion team. I cited an article from the Montreal Gazette in my earlier post, and the Gazette not only featured/features some of the best and most knowledgable writers in the business, but has been covering the game since the sports infancy in the 1870's.

[SHaMROCK]

Sorry, no. The fact that the Gunds got to take a number of players from the North Stars to establish the nucleus of the Sharks proves that the NHL was treating the whole thing as the Seals and North Stars unmerging, with the unmerged Seals becoming the Sharks.

Sorry no. The fact is it was not an unmerger. This isn't opinion but fact. The Gunds wanted to move the North Stars to Oakland in 1990. Howard Baldwin was applying for a expansion team at that time in San Jose. The NHL worked out a deal where the Gunds would be given an expansion team in San Jose, if they sold the North Stars to a group willing to keep the team in Minnesota. Baldwin wanted to own a team and was was willing to take the North Stars by buying them off of the Gunds. The Gunds offered to drop the price if they could take some players with them via a dispersal draft so they wouldn't have to build the entire team from scratch via an expansion draft, and Baldwin agreed.

The Sharks were an expansion team. The Gunds had to pay an expansion fee for them. If they seperated the Barons and moved them back to San Jose , then they wouldn't be considered an expansion team and the Gunds would not have to pay an expansion fee for an existing franchise seperating from another existing franchise and then relocating.

Furthermore The NHL does not consider the Sharks a continuation of the Seals/Barons franchise. When the NHL released the book The Official National Hockey League 75th anniversary commemorative book in 1991 (an official NHL publication) they have a list of the NHL franchises near the back (current and defunct). The San Jose Sharks are listed as a seperate entity from the Seals/Barons.

Furthermore Gil Stein who worked with then president John Ziegler and succeeded him as president a year later confirmed it wasn't a merger in chapter 6 of his book Power Plays: An Inside Look at the Big Business of the National Hockey League, under the chapter "The Noon Balloon to Saskatoon", (p 116-137) and was made it clear that it was not an unmerger. And he actually worked on this sale/expansion deal with the Gunds and Baldwin moreso then Ziegler actually did.

It's only NOT an demerger because the league wanted that expansion fee. Expansion teams don't get half the players from an existing team that only happens when a team splits and becomes two. Like in a demerger! The NHL can call it whatever they want, it's clearly the continuation of the Seals/Barons franchise. The Gunds had their hand in the ownership at every stage of their existance.

[Gothamite]

They could have received the free from an "unmerger", should the league have wished. A relocation fee, if nothing else. Territorial fee, or whatever.

That the NHL didn't is telling. None of the players appeared to consider the Sharks as a continuation of the Seals, when it would have been very easy to do so (or at least make public pronouncements on how they're the "spiritual heirs" or something). Intent is key - makes me inclined to consider them two separate franchises, albeit with common ownership.

[The_Admiral]

Maybe the Sharks would've been more receptive to carry the Seals torch if the Seals weren't a dismal failure that caused financial woes for everyone who owned them and existed solely as a travel partner for the Kings.

Personally, I like the idea of the Sharks being the reincarnated Seals, because it eliminates the mental hangnail of a modern sports team that forever ceased to exist.

[Gothamite]

Myself, I rather like the idea of a "ghost team", gone forever.

And count on it, there will be more. I am convinced that we'll see contraction in a major league again soon, most likely the NBA.

[BBTV]

Myself, I rather like the idea of a "ghost team", gone forever.

And count on it, there will be more. I am convinced that we'll see contraction in a major league again soon, most likely the NBA.

Well an article I read yesterday (I'll try to find the link, can't remember where it was) had the MLB attempting contraction again, with Oakland and Tampa Bay being the victims this time.

[The_Admiral]

The union's still too powerful to give up 50+ jobs without major concessions, the likes of which I wouldn't even want to think about.

So anyway, the Sharks. I was thinking that the triangle in their logo should have a straight line across the top again:

That bent line always bugged me.

[SHaMROCK]

The union's still too powerful to give up 50+ jobs without major concessions, the likes of which I wouldn't even want to think about.

So anyway, the Sharks. I was thinking that the triangle in their logo should have a straight line across the top again:

That bent line always bugged me.

I'm all in favour of any change that brings the Sharks logo/uniforms closer to their original set. Lets see it with the orange removed, grey added and the original teal!

[poser]

I dont understand why the Sharks dont have a retro jersey this year. Its the 20th year celebration and with how popular their first jersey was and how popular retro jerseys are you would figure this year would be a year to do it.

And the new jerseys have grown on me but I still hate the new logo. People seem to have problems with going "retro" for no reason but it seems that the sharks went "modern" for no reason. There was nothing wrong with the old logo.