2010 LeBron James Sweepstakes

[Wasatch]

a.) Based on what exactly? Because you don't agree? Yeah that really ought to shut me up. For some reason the phrase "kiss my ass" keeps coming to mind. That's odd considering the topic.

It's really okay what you think, it's nothing personal, just stating it for the record. It's pointless to debate and predict the outcome of someone's legacy before it's all said and done. I understand that's a big hypocritical for me to say this due to me personally being an active member on this board, a board that debates many things that would come a crossed as "pointless" to many, but I guess for some reason I personally believe that if the originator of the legacy doesn't care, then we shouldn't get too wrapped up in it ourselves. Again, just my two cents. Time to move on from this little spat.

b.) There's nothing for me to "get over." I'm not really that much of an NBA fan to begin with. It was just an observation. That said, what if I decide not to "get over it?" Then what?

That's your choice, whatever you decide to fill your day with. I'm not going to get butt hurt if you don't agree!

c.) The phrase "go yourself" keeps coming to mind too. It's odd really since it doesn't have much at all to do with the topic.

Now go away before you embarrass yourself.

Thanks for the good laugh, it's funny to see you take this so personal.

[infrared41]

a.) Based on what exactly? Because you don't agree? Yeah that really ought to shut me up. For some reason the phrase "kiss my ass" keeps coming to mind. That's odd considering the topic.

It's really okay what you think, it's nothing personal, just stating it for the record. It's pointless to debate and predict the outcome of someone's legacy before it's all said and done. I understand that's a big hypocritical for me to say this due to me personally being an active member on this board, a board that debates many things that would come a crossed as "pointless" to many, but I guess for some reason I personally believe that if the originator of the legacy doesn't care, then we shouldn't get too wrapped up in it ourselves. Again, just my two cents. Time to move on from this little spat.

b.) There's nothing for me to "get over." I'm not really that much of an NBA fan to begin with. It was just an observation. That said, what if I decide not to "get over it?" Then what?

That's your choice, whatever you decide to fill your day with. I'm not going to get butt hurt if you don't agree!

c.) The phrase "go yourself" keeps coming to mind too. It's odd really since it doesn't have much at all to do with the topic.

Now go away before you embarrass yourself.

Thanks for the good laugh, it's funny to see you take this so personal.

Trust me, there's nothing personal about this. You were being an ass so I decided to be a bigger ass. It happens all the time around here.

[Wasatch]

a.) Based on what exactly? Because you don't agree? Yeah that really ought to shut me up. For some reason the phrase "kiss my ass" keeps coming to mind. That's odd considering the topic.

It's really okay what you think, it's nothing personal, just stating it for the record. It's pointless to debate and predict the outcome of someone's legacy before it's all said and done. I understand that's a big hypocritical for me to say this due to me personally being an active member on this board, a board that debates many things that would come a crossed as "pointless" to many, but I guess for some reason I personally believe that if the originator of the legacy doesn't care, then we shouldn't get too wrapped up in it ourselves. Again, just my two cents. Time to move on from this little spat.

b.) There's nothing for me to "get over." I'm not really that much of an NBA fan to begin with. It was just an observation. That said, what if I decide not to "get over it?" Then what?

That's your choice, whatever you decide to fill your day with. I'm not going to get butt hurt if you don't agree!

c.) The phrase "go yourself" keeps coming to mind too. It's odd really since it doesn't have much at all to do with the topic.

Now go away before you embarrass yourself.

Thanks for the good laugh, it's funny to see you take this so personal.

Trust me, there's nothing personal about this. You were being an ass so I decided to be a bigger ass. It happens all the time around here.

Perhaps you?re right; I was an ass to personally call you out for your views and actions on LeBron?s Legacy, and perhaps I let it go a little too far. Accept my apologies.

[Corvus]

So, I'm reading that Lebron had one of his business associates call the Cavs minutes before the show to tell them he was gone. I think that explains some of the owner's rage, Lebron didn't even have the balls or class to make the call himself? That's pretty weak.

Also, the cavs owner once offered to wrestle an irate fan? I think I love this guy.

[ltjets21]

One chance to make the Nba's power more even but no. Lebron had to sign with Bosh and Wade and never win HIS OWN championship.....smh

A whole host of 1990s Superstars just called and said that "win you own championship" strategy is overrated.

Is it not true to say that no NBA championship, even the great Bulls teams of the Jordan era, is ever won by one person? Jordan needed guys like Pippen and Grant, KG needed Pierce and Allen. James was never going to get that support on the Cavs. The one doubt I would have now for the heat is Erik Spoelstra. Obviously Pat Riley is still a big figure down there, but can such an inexperienced coach mould 3 stars into a genuine team? Mind you I guess people might have said that of Phil Jackson at one time!

Pippen was no Dwayne Wade, and Grant was no Chris Bosh. I know you need other guys but, the caliber of these players are much higher than what Jordan won with. I think Lebron can never be "The Best Of All Time" because of this

[infrared41]

Perhaps you?re right; I was an ass to personally call you out for your views and actions on LeBron?s Legacy, and perhaps I let it go a little too far. Accept my apologies.

No worries. Accept my apology as well.

[floydnimrod]

I don't know why everyone wanted LeBron to personally tell the Cavaliers that he was leaving. He did't tell any of the other team he wasn't signing there either. I get that if anyone made a call it should have been him, but then again I don't think any call should have been made. I don't why Dan Gilbert felt he had to know before anyone else.

[Gothamite]

His history with the Cavs is the difference there. LeBron has a longstanding business relationship with them that he doesn't have with any of the other clubs. To a man, that means something, and it deserves a little courtesy.

So, I'm reading that Lebron had one of his business associates call the Cavs minutes before the show to tell them he was gone. I think that explains some of the owner's rage, Lebron didn't even have the balls or class to make the call himself? That's pretty weak.

It was reported earlier that Gilbert didn't get a call at all - only the Heat did. The Cavs had to find out on ESPN.

Totally classless. Gilbert's tiff might have been juvenile, but he still ends up looking the more adult of the two.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I don't know why everyone wanted LeBron to personally tell the Cavaliers that he was leaving. He did't tell any of the other team he wasn't signing there either. I get that if anyone made a call it should have been him, but then again I don't think any call should have been made. I don't why Dan Gilbert felt he had to know before anyone else.

Professional etiquette.

[BBTV]

I don't know why everyone wanted LeBron to personally tell the Cavaliers that he was leaving. He did't tell any of the other team he wasn't signing there either. I get that if anyone made a call it should have been him, but then again I don't think any call should have been made. I don't why Dan Gilbert felt he had to know before anyone else.

If you were an athelete who was getting traded after playing on the same team for a while, would you want the GM to tell you personally, or hear about it on Sports Center? In any business, sports or real life, it's just the professional coureous thing to do. He or his official representative should have told the teams what was up.

LOL though at this exchange:

Jim Gray: "does the team you're signing with know it yet?"

Lebron: "yeah they do as of a few minutes ago."

Jim Gray: "so the other teams don't know yet that you're not going to them?"

Well of course they do - if they haven't been told "yes", then they just inadvertantly got told "no" you idiot.

[floydnimrod]

I don't know why everyone wanted LeBron to personally tell the Cavaliers that he was leaving. He did't tell any of the other team he wasn't signing there either. I get that if anyone made a call it should have been him, but then again I don't think any call should have been made. I don't why Dan Gilbert felt he had to know before anyone else.

If you were an athelete who was getting traded after playing on the same team for a while, would you want the GM to tell you personally, or hear about it on Sports Center? In any business, sports or real life, it's just the professional coureous thing to do. He or his official representative should have told the teams what was up.

LOL though at this exchange:

Jim Gray: "does the team you're signing with know it yet?"

Lebron: "yeah they do as of a few minutes ago."

Jim Gray: "so the other teams don't know yet that you're not going to them?"

Well of course they do - if they haven't been told "yes", then they just inadvertantly got told "no" you idiot.

Got it. The way I understood Gilbert's statement made me think he believed LeBron owed him something personally.

[infrared41]

One chance to make the Nba's power more even but no. Lebron had to sign with Bosh and Wade and never win HIS OWN championship.....smh

A whole host of 1990s Superstars just called and said that "win you own championship" strategy is overrated.

Is it not true to say that no NBA championship, even the great Bulls teams of the Jordan era, is ever won by one person? Jordan needed guys like Pippen and Grant, KG needed Pierce and Allen. James was never going to get that support on the Cavs. The one doubt I would have now for the heat is Erik Spoelstra. Obviously Pat Riley is still a big figure down there, but can such an inexperienced coach mould 3 stars into a genuine team? Mind you I guess people might have said that of Phil Jackson at one time!

Pippen was no Dwayne Wade, and Grant was no Chris Bosh. I know you need other guys but, the caliber of these players are much higher than what Jordan won with. I think Lebron can never be "The Best Of All Time" because of this

Exactly. This isn't like Bird, McHale, and Parrish. Or even Jordan and Pippen for that matter. Neither Wade or James are a "supporting star" like Pippen was and my guess is that there aren't many people who wouldn't trade Horace Grant straight up for Chris Bosh.

Let's put it another way. Let's say you want to put three of the best players in the NBA on one team. It's 1986 and you get to pick any three stars to build an NBA team. Do you pick Bird, McHale, and Parrish? Do you pick Magic, Kareem, and Worthy? No. You're going with Bird, Magic, and Dominique Wilkins or Dr. J. etc. Same thing in the 90's. Using Jordan's Bulls era as a comparison, would the three best players in the NBA at that time include anyone on that Bulls team besides Michael Jordan? Maybe Scottie Pippen but it's debatable. Yes, Pippen was great but if you're building a team with anyone you want would you choose him over Olajuwan or David Robinson? Or Clyde Drexler?

If you get to pick any three players you want to build an NBA team Wade, James, and Bosh are going to be in that discussion. You simply can't say that about Horace Grant or Robert Parrish or the 1987 version of Kareem.

[The_Admiral]

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/lebron-james/lebron-james-decision-070910

Interesting article here, though he loses me with the sympathy for Gilbert, who I feel has made a petulant ass of himself. Great points about the ESPN analingus, especially.

[infrared41]

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/lebron-james/lebron-james-decision-070910

Interesting article here, though he loses me with the sympathy for Gilbert, who I feel has made a petulant ass of himself. Great points about the ESPN analingus, especially.

Dan Gilbert's rant, while being all the things you've stated and more than a little over the top, was a great PR move. In one stupid "letter" he was able to galvanize Cavs fans and give them a reason to keep following what's left of his team. The Cavs are officially on a mission to win a you Lebron championship. At least that's the way he's going to play it until this thing blows over and reality sets in. Petulant ass or not, it was a very shrewd PR move.

[Jimmy!]

Is anyone else secretly hoping the Heat totally crap out next season? Or, in some twisted fantasy land, get knocked out of the playoffs by the Cavs?

[fishheatcats]

I find it interesting that so many people are talking about LeBron's "legacy being damaged" and "he'll never be the greatest player of all time now". While that may have been his aim at some point, I think at this point he genuinely wants to win championships. He took less money, one less year, and a (slightly)diminished role to come to Miami with Wade and Bosh.

That being said I think all this hype and buildup and the ESPN special was a real dick move on LeBron's part. I mean, he did grow up a fairweather Bulls/Cowboys/Yankees fan, but it was his hometown team and to kick them in the gut like that on national TV was pretty low(although I approve of the slightly less intense kick to the gut of the Knicks ). But the Cavs owner topped him with that furious sour grapes letter he released. He could have been the bigger man, but he ended up sounding like a envious 5th grader... "Whatever, that's fine, I'm better than you anyway, you suck, whatever, it's on now!!!!!!!" Also, his "guarantee" that the Cavs will win a title before LeBron is pretty bold considering no team from Cleveland has won anything in nearly 50 years, and the Cavs have never won a championship.

In the end, these three guys might be looked at as the greatest not necessarily because of their individual stats or rings, but the fact that they put their egos aside and worked together to become the greatest trio of all time. Of course they might clash and the whole thing could blow up. Only time will tell.

[infrared41]

Is anyone else secretly hoping the Heat totally crap out next season? Or, in some twisted fantasy land, get knocked out of the playoffs by the Cavs?

Yes. Part of me really wants to believe that Bill Simmons' "Ewing theory" comes into play here and the Antwawn Jamison led Cavs make some sort of miracle run to the NBA championship. That's the fantasy. The reality is next June I'll probably be doing something I haven't done since 1991; rooting for the Lakers.

I didn't think it was possible but Lebron James made me a Kobe Bryant fan. And worse, Lebron has managed to get me to root for the Celtics. You know I was ready to follow him to whatever team he landed with. I'd done it before. Wherever Kareem went is where I went. (needless to say that Kareem's trade to the Lakers turned out to be a lof of fun.) When it comes to NBA basketball I've always enjoyed the players more than the teams. I was actually hoping for the Knicks if he left Cleveland. After that fiasco last night I find it hard to be a fan of anything Lebron James is involved with. Again, not because he left Cleveland (hell, I had my bags packed and was ready to go with him) but because he handled the whole affair so poorly.

If the guy had to come up with a plan to destroy his image I don't think he'd have done one thing differently.

[Jimmy!]

Is anyone else secretly hoping the Heat totally crap out next season? Or, in some twisted fantasy land, get knocked out of the playoffs by the Cavs?

Yes. Part of me really wants to believe that Bill Simmons' "Ewing theory" comes into play here and the Antwawn Jamison led Cavs make some sort of miracle run to the NBA championship. That's the fantasy. The reality is next June I'll probably be doing something I haven't done since 1991; rooting for the Lakers.

I didn't think it was possible but Lebron James made me a Kobe Bryant fan. And worse, Lebron has managed to get me to root for the Celtics. You know I was ready to follow him to whatever team he landed with. I'd done it before. Wherever Kareem went is where I went. (needless to say that Kareem's trade to the Lakers turned out to be a lof of fun.) When it comes to NBA basketball I've always enjoyed the players more than the teams. I was actually hoping for the Knicks if he left Cleveland. After that fiasco last night I find it hard to be a fan of anything Lebron James is involved with. Again, not because he left Cleveland (hell, I had my bags packed and was ready to go with him) but because he handled the whole affair so poorly.

If the guy had to come up with a plan to destroy his image I don't think he'd have done one thing differently.

As a dejected Sonic fan, cheering for the Lakers was something I never would have done; until they played OKC in the first round. I'm with you, though. I have no problem with James leaving Cleveland. I have a problem with how he left Cleveland.

[Starchild]

Just a couple of thoughts after cooling down and letting the whole situation play itself out. Trying to remain somewhat objective, but I know I won't be... shooting for 60%

@infrared - While I too dig Dan Gilbert's rant (minus the Comic Sans... almost totally kills the mood), I think it was an AWFUL move from a PR perspective. It's a power-play for the Cleveland faithful, and certainly echoes many of their sentiments, however, he needed to look at this from a player-personnel point. What future free agents are going to want to play for this guy after seeing how Gilbert's sour grapes mentality got the better of him with a guy who is the second best player in the game? Assuming Cleveland is even being considered from a basketball perspective, I just can't imagine a free agent looking at his options and think Gilbert is the kind of owner he would want to be associated with. With LeBron really taking a nosedive in the class department, this was the perfect opportunity for Dan Gilbert to take the high road and be an incredibly classy owner. Despite being pissed and offended and out for revenge, he needed to keep his composure, and put out a classy statement for the good of the franchise. Mark Cuban may have applauded it, but that's easy to say coming from a guy who has a consistent playoff team and an all-around positive image as an owner (minus David Stern and some purists). I have a hard time believing even a guy like Cuban would put out a statement like Gilbert's.

Some other random thoughts...

-Isn't it funny how Kobe Bryant goes from being the villain and (arguably) most hated man in the NBA to being a hero, while LeBron goes from being the most beloved to the most hated? I think it's absolutely incredible how easily the tide can turn in sports. Down the road, this could be quite a compelling story... but I suppose a lot of room is left. I suppose LeBron could restore his image if Kobe was able to do so, but boy, he burned A LOT of bridges last night, and bridges in the largest markets at that.

-I hate Pat Riley. I won't go on an anti-Heat rant like I want to or am expected to, but I just cannot emphasize enough how deep my hatred runs for Pat Riley. Though, I will say, I miss hating him this much. Though I totally hate that Bosh and James joined Wade, I will admit to kind of enjoying the notion of having the Heat to hate again... but that's only under the assumption that the Knicks can help bring this rivalry back in some fashion. With the moves the Knicks have made and will continue to make, I think it's a VERY real possibility that they could wind up with a 7th or 8th seed and face a top-seeded or second-seeded Heat team in the playoffs. I don't know if EITHER team has the toughness to make it anywhere near as interesting as the 1996-2001 rivalry, but who knows.

-Nice to see Prokhorov and Jay-Z's "blueprint for greatness" gimmick go down in flames. EPIC fail. I love their giant billboard and billionaire mumbo-jumbo, and they wind up (a.) low-balling Carlos Boozer, and (b.) making a "splash" with Travis Outlaw at like $7 million per season. No John Wall, No James/Wade/Bosh/Amar'e/Boozer/Lee. Should be fun to see if any graffiti winds up around that billboard... various forms of facial hair could be fun, maybe tack on a "...just kidding" to the tag line. Nice to know that even without making a huge wave by signing LeBron, the Knicks are still numero uno, and will always be, as far as Tri-State basketball is concerned.

-Am I the only one who is ticked off at how easily excellent players are moved for a bag of peanuts the last few years? Pau Gasol's trade originally looked like a steal, but it looks like Memphis did a nice job as Marc Gasol is quite the player. However, Kirk Hinrich being moved for nothing? The former SECOND overall pick Michael Beasley going to Minnesota for a 2ND ROUNDER???? It's absolutely absurd. Speaking of that deal, I don't know what Minnesota is trying to do.

[rams80]

One chance to make the Nba's power more even but no. Lebron had to sign with Bosh and Wade and never win HIS OWN championship.....smh

A whole host of 1990s Superstars just called and said that "win you own championship" strategy is overrated.

Is it not true to say that no NBA championship, even the great Bulls teams of the Jordan era, is ever won by one person? Jordan needed guys like Pippen and Grant, KG needed Pierce and Allen. James was never going to get that support on the Cavs. The one doubt I would have now for the heat is Erik Spoelstra. Obviously Pat Riley is still a big figure down there, but can such an inexperienced coach mould 3 stars into a genuine team? Mind you I guess people might have said that of Phil Jackson at one time!

Pippen was no Dwayne Wade, and Grant was no Chris Bosh. I know you need other guys but, the caliber of these players are much higher than what Jordan won with. I think Lebron can never be "The Best Of All Time" because of this

You're young, so you may not remember this junior, but Pippen could ing ball. That '93-'94 team he lead was very good and had a very good shot at turning a 4-peat. You don't get named to the NBA's 50th anniversary team if you can't ball. Oh, and Grant was one of the best at his position at the time, and then you had Rodman for the second 3, who is one of the best rebounders in league history. Yes Jordan is "the Best of All Time", but he had help. In fact, I have trouble thinking of the last League Championship Superstar who won a title on their own.

What will hurt James in the "best of all time" conversation (assuming he actually does win a couple of titles) will be his relative lack of a killer competitive instinct, not who he won championships with.