Joe Paterno: Dead

[Chawls]

I'm honestly surprised we haven't gotten into religion debates what with all of this "Go to hell" stuff.

This thread has turned into two extremes countering each other with insane statements with a small minority looking at it rationally. So, basically like every other thread on these boards.

I'd like to believe my post on the matter was rational.

[CS85]

It's one thing for Phil Knight to attend the funeral, I get that... but have him to make a speech? Who came up with that?

Probably Phil Knight.

I meant who decided on him speaking?

Probably Phil Knight.

[pmoehrin]

I'm honestly surprised we haven't gotten into religion debates what with all of this "Go to hell" stuff.

This thread has turned into two extremes countering each other with insane statements with a small minority looking at it rationally. So, basically like every other thread on these boards.

I'd like to believe my post on the matter was rational.

My whole thing was that I think too much attention is being paid to Joe Pa regarding this issue and its allowing other parties who are just as if not more responsible to get a free pass. I also think there's bigger issues at hand here then the leagacy of Joe Paterno such as have we have allowed sports to become too important in our society, because it was the influence and image of the Penn State football program more then anything else that allowed this to happen. But Joe Paterno's legacy is all the media and fans seem to want to talk about, so let them have at it. If people want to scream and shout over what is quite frankly a side issue as it relates to the Jerry Sandusky case I'm not going to stop them.

[infrared41]

I'm honestly surprised we haven't gotten into religion debates what with all of this "Go to hell" stuff.

This thread has turned into two extremes countering each other with insane statements with a small minority looking at it rationally. So, basically like every other thread on these boards.

I'd like to believe my post on the matter was rational.

My whole thing was that I think too much attention is being paid to Joe Pa regarding this issue and its allowing other parties who are just as if not more responsible to get a free pass. I also think there's bigger issues at hand here then the leagacy of Joe Paterno such as have we have allowed sports to become too important in our society, because it was the influence and image of the Penn State football program more then anything else that allowed this to happen. But Joe Paterno's legacy is all the media and fans seem to want to talk about, so let them have at it. If people want to scream and shout over what is quite frankly a side issue as it relates to the Jerry Sandusky case I'm not going to stop them.

No one is on here talking about how great and wonderful those other parties are. That's the difference.

[IceCap]

Exactly. pmoehrin, Saintsfan, no one's forgetting about Jerry Sandusky, who actually raped the kids, or the leadership of Penn State that played a part in covering it up along with Paterno. No one's letting them off the hook.

The reason we're focusing on Paterno is because indoctrinated "JoPa" followers who sadly adopted him as a proxy grandpa figure still insist on making the absurd and offensive claim that he should be remembered as a good football coach rather then an enabler of child molestation and rape.

Those other people who played a part in these crimes? We're not forgetting about them, and G-d willing they'll pay for what they did, or what they allowed to happen. No one feels the need to post about them, however, because no one's saying how great they were. People are, however, trying to glorify Paterno. Hence why others (ie the sane ones) are being persistent in the condemnation.

[Saintsfan]

Exactly. pmoehrin, Saintsfan, no one's forgetting about Jerry Sandusky, who actually raped the kids, or the leadership of Penn State that played a part in covering it up along with Paterno. No one's letting them off the hook.

The reason we're focusing on Paterno is because indoctrinated "JoPa" followers who sadly adopted him as a proxy grandpa figure still insist on making the absurd and offensive claim that he should be remembered as a good football coach rather then an enabler of child molestation and rape.

Those other people who played a part in these crimes? We're not forgetting about them, and G-d willing they'll pay for what they did, or what they allowed to happen. No one feels the need to post about them, however, because no one's saying how great they were. People are, however, trying to glorify Paterno. Hence why others (ie the sane ones) are being persistent in the condemnation.

I am not saying, neccesarily that people are forgetting, and I get that some of this is fuelled by a Penn State loyalists against Penn State haters. But by concentrating on Paterno as 'enabler' (a word I am still not comfortable with) you are kind of saying to the wrong people that its a crime that needs an enabler. And that further diminishes how responsible the wrong kind of people may feel for their acts. I think the tone of the whole conversation has been really quite dangerous. (Not just on the boards, but as far as I can gather across the nation.)

[IceCap]

I don't think I'm sending the message that all crimes need an "enabler" by calling Joe Paterno an enabler. Crime is a pretty broad thing. Some crimes have enablers, others do not. Rather then get concerned over the precedent that applying labels sets I think we should just apply the labels that fit each case on a case to case basis. Some criminals are "enabled" by "enablers." Some are not.

Jerry Sandusky was enabled. Joe Paterno was one of the enablers. In this particular case the term fits.

[infrared41]

Some criminals are "enabled" by "enablers." Some are not.

Jerry Sandusky was enabled. Joe Paterno was one of the enablers. In this particular case the term fits.

Yet somehow the simple logic of that statement is lost on an astonishing number of people around here.

[Kramerica Industries]

Can't he be remembered for both?

That would be possible if one of them wasn't covering up one of the most horrific crimes a person can commit.

First off, let it be known that I'm not at all defending Paterno. However...

How much do you think Paterno was in a "right state of mind" the last 10 years? Since 2000, my lasting images of Paterno include:

-Pep rally speeches consisting of mumblings and ramblings, half of which were coherent.

-Getting hurt by players running out of bounds multiple times.

-Running off the field in the middle of a game because he was crapping his pants.

-Sleeping in the coaches box during games.

It's easy for us to be saying "Paterno should have done more." because we're not 75-year-old men (Well, Infrared's nearly there...) going senile. I just don't think Paterno was "all there" in the last few years.

Paterno deserves blame, but a cover-up of this magnitude isn't just the doing of one man...especially one who's physical and mental health had been in decline for quite a while.

Just to spin this comment differently - but if he still thought he was capable of being head coach, then, senile-or-not, his level of blame and culpability is just as high.

With great power comes great responsibility, regardless of mental state.

[The_Admiral]

Also, you can't have your cake and eat it too with Joe Paterno being the benevolent king of Happy Valley who had the power to change lives far beyond the locker room, but also a mere subordinate who simply passed information up the chain of command. All these gomers at his memorial service saying "he WAS Penn State" and so forth but then insisting he did all he had to do. If he was the demigod you're making him out to be, then no, he didn't do enough.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Also, you can't have your cake and eat it too with Joe Paterno being the benevolent king of Happy Valley who had the power to change lives far beyond the locker room, but also a mere subordinate who simply passed information up the chain of command. All these gomers at his memorial service saying "he WAS Penn State" and so forth but then insisting he did all he had to do. If he was the demigod you're making him out to be, then no, he didn't do enough.

That's my position. Even if he was just a mascot with limited mental capacity, he also asked for (and received) greater institutional power than anyone else at the university. If you're responsible for the good stuff, you get to take blame for the bad stuff too.

And while I don't think Paterno acted (or inacted, as it were) out of malice, he did act cowardly. Over and over again.

[Evil Doctor]

He was there because he knows all about benefiting from covering up the exploitation of children

I came this close to spewing ice cream and cake all over the monitor....

[The_Admiral]

Why were you messageboarding during a seven-year-old's birthday party?

[Evil Doctor]

Why were you messageboarding during a seven-year-old's birthday party?

It wasn't birthday cake silly man....

damn, now I want some birthday cake....

(and for the record, my daughter will be 3 at her next birthday...)

[HedleyLamarr]

Why were you messageboarding during a seven-year-old's birthday party?

There's only two reasons why I'd actually pay attention at a kid's birthday party:

1. I'm the parent of said kid.

2. If I can bag one of the other kid's hot mom.

[Viola73]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yvonne-k-fulbright/countering-the-criticism-_b_1236723.html

[DG_ThenNowForever]

He was there because he knows all about benefiting from covering up the exploitation of children

I came this close to spewing ice cream and cake all over the monitor....

If not a childhood birthday party, what other occasion is there for cake AND ice cream on a weekday? I don't understand why you would do that.

[CS85]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yvonne-k-fulbright/countering-the-criticism-_b_1236723.html

[DG_ThenNowForever]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yvonne-k-fulbright/countering-the-criticism-_b_1236723.html

Given the generation that Paterno is from, it's understandable that any rape awareness he might've been exposed to only focused on women. Regardless of age, both males and females have a hard time grasping how a male can be raped since he doesn't have a vagina.

Oh shut up.

[CS85]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yvonne-k-fulbright/countering-the-criticism-_b_1236723.html

Given the generation that Paterno is from, it's understandable that any rape awareness he might've been exposed to only focused on women. Regardless of age, both males and females have a hard time grasping how a male can be raped since he doesn't have a vagina.

Oh shut up.

I just...I just don't understand. Money has to be changing hands to get major sources to speak out in Paterno's defense with such hollow and clearly illogical arguments.