2012-13 MLB Off-Season Thread

[Funky Bunky]

I also will take Atlanta's outfield, unless Harper really takes off (and has an ops over 1.000 or something).

[Kramerica Industries]

At this point in time, B.J. Upton is still tremendously overrated.

His SB numbers were down last year, his OBP was pretty wretched, middling OPS (relative to his purported talent level), and now he's being paid $15M a year for this. His 2012 numbers are entirely inflated by his hot September finish.

He hasn't been the same hitter since he tore his left shoulder labrum in 2008.

[TBGKon]

BJ Upton is a highly streaky player. As a Rays fan, for all of the times he's awesome, there's an equal amount of time that I was screaming at my TV because he was god awful.

I wish him the best in ATL, and hope he performs to their expectations.

[BrySmalls]

And this is reason #1,200,000,000 as to why Loria is a lousy owner.

[NJTank]

That is why I chose Loria as weasle of the year over the Madofuses

[SouthpawJosh]

[DEAD!]

All we need now is for the right fielder to be Kate Upton...

[The_Admiral]

No, the joke requires Uptons in multiples of two.

[The Six]

Change the meter of the song to 6/4 and it works fine.

[The_Admiral]

I think "Back That Azz Up" would be good in 12/8.

[pmoehrin]

And this is reason #1,200,000,000 as to why Loria is a lousy owner.

Well there was a reason why it was never put to a public vote in the first place, because it never would have passed if it was.

One year the Marlins are back to having the lowest payroll in the National League and the second lowest in baseball. Only the Houston Tankers have a lower payroll. They are also apparently already talking about trading Giancarlo Stanton. http://aol.sportingn...res-jedd-gyorko

From a baseball side of things I understand he's their best player, but you gotta think about the future here and at 23 I'm not really sure if Giancarlo is young enough to be that franchise player for the future. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Stanton being arbitration eligible this offseason and Loria's desire to run the cheapest team possible. I'm sure its possible to get return value on a player like Stanton. You can always get return value on young superstar players. Just look at the huge haul they got back for Miguel Cabrera. No doubt that trade certainly helped lay the foundation for the solid club you see today. Just look at the players still on the Marlins roster from that deal.

[McCall]

And this is reason #1,200,000,000 as to why Loria is a lousy owner.

Well there was a reason why it was never put to a public vote in the first place, because it never would have passed if it was.

One year the Marlins are back to having the lowest payroll in the National League and the second lowest in baseball. Only the Houston Tankers have a lower payroll. They are also apparently already talking about trading Giancarlo Stanton. http://aol.sportingn...res-jedd-gyorko

From a baseball side of things I understand he's their best player, but you gotta think about the future here and at 23 I'm not really sure if Giancarlo is young enough to be that franchise player for the future. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Stanton being arbitration eligible this offseason and Loria's desire to run the cheapest team possible. I'm sure its possible to get return value on a player like Stanton. You can always get return value on young superstar players. Just look at the huge haul they got back for Miguel Cabrera. No doubt that trade certainly helped lay the foundation for the solid club you see today. Just look at the players still on the Marlins roster from that deal.

He's definitely a franchise player, but he can bring back a huge return if traded now. He's also made it clear his displeasure with the team after the recent firesale, so it might be best to go ahead and move him.

[pmoehrin]

And this is reason #1,200,000,000 as to why Loria is a lousy owner.

Well there was a reason why it was never put to a public vote in the first place, because it never would have passed if it was.

One year the Marlins are back to having the lowest payroll in the National League and the second lowest in baseball. Only the Houston Tankers have a lower payroll. They are also apparently already talking about trading Giancarlo Stanton. http://aol.sportingn...res-jedd-gyorko

From a baseball side of things I understand he's their best player, but you gotta think about the future here and at 23 I'm not really sure if Giancarlo is young enough to be that franchise player for the future. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Stanton being arbitration eligible this offseason and Loria's desire to run the cheapest team possible. I'm sure its possible to get return value on a player like Stanton. You can always get return value on young superstar players. Just look at the huge haul they got back for Miguel Cabrera. No doubt that trade certainly helped lay the foundation for the solid club you see today. Just look at the players still on the Marlins roster from that deal.

He's definitely a franchise player, but he can bring back a huge return if traded now. He's also made it clear his displeasure with the team after the recent firesale, so it might be best to go ahead and move him.

Hell you can trade Bryce Harper and get huge return if you traded him now. If you look at it from that perspective pretty much any trade in the world could justified. But you don't trade Bryce Harper for the same reason you don't trade Giancarlo Stanton. You just can't trade a 23 year old sure thing and get return value for him. Any team that would have return value for Stanton isn't giving it up.

As far as him being upset over the offseason firesale, yeah no question about it that he is, I don't know anyone that wouldn't be. But how hard is it really to convince players to play for Miami? If you can't convince a guy like Giancarlo Stanton to stay then you have bigger problems as a franchise, which they almost certainly do.

I just think its related entirely to money. Your not trading your 23 year old superstar player because you need to build for the future. That makes no sense. Your trading away your 23 year old superstar because you didn't sign him to a long term deal when you had a chance and want to avoid doing such which you will eventually have to do if you want to keep him? That makes sense, and Jeffrey Loria is a guy that is on record as saying he doesn't believe in giving out long term contracts for anybody and I don't think he cares that he's the last holdout of that mentality.

Its going to be fun watching them try to justify the deal though if in fact they make it. They can't use the money excuse because if they do, they are in turn admitting building the new stadium was a failure, so its going to be fun watching what they come up with. I'm sure they'll come up with something. You can argue virtually anything and make it seem logical if you try hard enough. Maybe they'll use the future excuse, maybe they'll come up with dirt on Stanton, its going to be interesting regardless if in fact they do it.

[McCall]

You wait to trade him he loses value because you're in a hurry to get something before he hits free agency. You trade him now, he's under team control longer and teams would give up more for him. He ain't re-signing, it doesn't appear. And it's not a matter of liking the city of Miami. It's a matter of whether or not he's happy playing for the Marlins. And he's not. They can get a lot of pieces for one guy. Add in those previously mentioned factors, and it makes perfect sense. They're probably holding out for a near-perfect offer.

And as far as Harper, its apples and oranges. The Nats aren't trying to rebuild an entire team. The Marlins are. Plus he's happy there. Stanton's not.

[pmoehrin]

You wait to trade him he loses value because you're in a hurry to get something before he hits free agency. You trade him now, he's under team control longer and teams would give up more for him. He ain't re-signing, it doesn't appear. And it's not a matter of liking the city of Miami. It's a matter of whether or not he's happy playing for the Marlins. And he's not. They can get a lot of pieces for one guy. Add in those previously mentioned factors, and it makes perfect sense. They're probably holding out for a near-perfect offer.

And as far as Harper, its apples and oranges. The Nats aren't trying to rebuild an entire team. The Marlins are. Plus he's happy there. Stanton's not.

The trade you are describing could applied to any ballplayer in theory. If you get more value then what you are giving up then you make the trade. That's basic common sense.

The problem is nobody is going to give you a player like Giancarlo Stanton in return for Giancarlo Stanton. What your going to get is probably one really good prospect who may turn into an All-Star, bunch of B and C level players that hopefully can start and maybe a relief pitcher. What your not going to get back is a potential HOF level talent at the start of his career. You can't lose out on those types of players and be a better baseball team for it unless your getting back another potential HOF talent at the start of his career.

Could trading Stanton be preferable to losing him in free agency, potentially. But if the Marlins can't hold him to him, then that team is going nowhere, because that means they will never be able to hold onto a player the level of Stanton and those are the kinds of players you need to win on yearly basis. You may skate by with a 90 win club for a year or two without players like Stanton on the team, but any team with prolonged success has always had at least two future HOFers on the roster.

[McCall]

Let me make this clearer; Stanton's not happy. And it doesnt appear he's going to re-sign nor that the Marlins are wanting to spend that kind of money to sign him longterm. Right now, he's worth a lot. They could get a lot in return for him. Not one player, but multiple players. If the Rangers were desperate enough, they could potentially give up Profar and Olt (don't think they will) and other prospects. That there alone is worth two long term position players at the very least PLUS more. If they wait until he's closer to free agency, other teams gain leverage because the Marlins could come out with nothing but a compensatory draft pick if they weren't to trade him before he walks. As of now, he's a great young player under team control. He hasn't even hit arbitration yet. That's extremely attractive to other teams trying to win now. The Marlins are building for the future, not the present. Getting multiple top rated prospects for one guy helps that plan very very much. Fills more holes.

THAT'S why he's a more valuable trade commodity at this time.

[rams80]

The Marlins are building for the future, not the present.

The following is more directed at the idea that the Marlins are building for anything...

[pmoehrin]

The Marlins are building for the future, not the present.

The following is more directed at the idea that the Marlins are building for anything...

I'll just say show me the one team that gave up a guy like Giancarlo Stanton at his age and in return got pieces that helped lead to a World Series title or any kind of prolonged success. Anyone I know that traded a HOF player early in his career or lost him through free agency, it rarely worked out for the better. Usually the old team goes in the tank and the new team goes on to have a solid run and that's been true going back to Babe Ruth all the way up to Miguel Cabrera.

[McCall]

The Marlins are building for the future, not the present.

The following is more directed at the idea that the Marlins are building for anything...

I'll just say show me the one team that gave up a guy like Giancarlo Stanton at his age and in return got pieces that helped lead to a World Series title or any kind of prolonged success. Anyone I know that traded a HOF player early in his career or lost him through free agency, it rarely worked out for the better. Usually the old team goes in the tank and the new team goes on to have a solid run and that's been true going back to Babe Ruth all the way up to Miguel Cabrera.

Unless you think the Marlins are gonna win the World Series in the next four years, this point is moot. Again, HE'S NOT HAPPY. He's not gonna re-sign. Even if the Marlins want to, doesn't mean he does. So in that situation, you get the most you can. NOW or at least within the next year is the best opportunity. Because wherever he goes, they may be able to sign him to an extension. If they feel they can, they may be willing to give up more to get him. You can say he's a HOF player all you want. Doesn't change the situation. They're rebuilding for the future, which would more than likely take past his last year of control, and all signs point to him wanting out. So it makes sense to get more in return when they can.

[pmoehrin]

The Marlins are building for the future, not the present.

The following is more directed at the idea that the Marlins are building for anything...

I'll just say show me the one team that gave up a guy like Giancarlo Stanton at his age and in return got pieces that helped lead to a World Series title or any kind of prolonged success. Anyone I know that traded a HOF player early in his career or lost him through free agency, it rarely worked out for the better. Usually the old team goes in the tank and the new team goes on to have a solid run and that's been true going back to Babe Ruth all the way up to Miguel Cabrera.

Unless you think the Marlins are gonna win the World Series in the next four years, this point is moot. Again, HE'S NOT HAPPY. He's not gonna re-sign. Even if the Marlins want to, doesn't mean he does. So in that situation, you get the most you can. NOW or at least within the next year is the best opportunity. Because wherever he goes, they may be able to sign him to an extension. If they feel they can, they may be willing to give up more to get him. You can say he's a HOF player all you want. Doesn't change the situation. They're rebuilding for the future, which would more than likely take past his last year of control, and all signs point to him wanting out. So it makes sense to get more in return when they can.

And I'll just say if they lose him its a sign of a team going nowhere. They can make all the rebuliding plans they want. Can't win without proven talent.

And I don't think it has anything to do with baseball because they could hold onto him until 2017 if they wanted to without losing him via free agency. Its just Loria being cheap and not wanting to pay top dollar for talent.