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Indians Remove Chief Wahoo from Uniform in Toronto

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Just now, andrewharrington said:

I suppose the key distinction for me is that the franchise never played a major league game before buying the Spiders’ assets. The Western League was considered minor and didn’t declare itself “major” until 1899 happened and it renamed itself as the American League.

We tend to talk about teams getting "promoted" in the sense that the San Diego Padres and the Vancouver Canucks were "promoted," but there really isn't much continuity in player personnel between the minor and major league versions of those clubs.

 

With the Grand Rapids/Cleveland Far Too Many Names to Mention Before Indians team? The transition from the minor league WL to major league AL team had a pretty consistent continuity as far as personnel goes. So I think it's fair to say the Indians and Spiders franchises played concurrently.

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22 minutes ago, ptaylor said:

There has got to be some imagery that is considered respectful for the 21st century. The Spokane Indians use feathers in their logos, I say go for it. 

 

The difference is that Spokane worked with the local nation to create an identity that they were okay with.   I know there are no federally recognized nations in Ohio, but if Cleveland could do the same with any tribes who had history in the state, then I’m sure they could come to the same result Spokane did.  

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20 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

We tend to talk about teams getting "promoted" in the sense that the San Diego Padres and the Vancouver Canucks were "promoted," but there really isn't much continuity in player personnel between the minor and major league versions of those clubs.

 

With the Grand Rapids/Cleveland Far Too Many Names to Mention Before Indians team? The transition from the minor league WL to major league AL team had a pretty consistent continuity as far as personnel goes. So I think it's fair to say the Indians and Spiders franchises played concurrently.

 

Well yes, just not at equal levels. They never coexisted as major league ball clubs.

 

Either way, it’s not meant to justify the Spiders name as the best choice, only to point out that the Spiders’ lineage does run into and is a part of the Indians’ lineage, just not in the typical manner of “this franchise moved/changed its name to become this one.” They myth that the two teams have no connection is simply not true. The Seals/Barons lineage is still part of the North Stars lineage even though the two franchises both existed concurrently in the NHL.

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Just now, Gothamite said:

 

The difference is that Spokane worked with the local nation to create an identity that they were okay with.   I know there are no federally recognized nations in Ohio, but if Cleveland could do the same with any tribes who had history in the state, then I’m sure they could come to the same result Spokane did.  

 

My angle was to engage with Louis Sockalexis’ tribe, the Penobscots.

 

From a concepts thread I made:

 

Quote

While I initially wanted to pay tribute to tribes from Ohio, I decided (with somehelp from posters like @hawk36 and @Gothamite) that the best route would be to link the team to the "Indian" who played for the team and became their apocryphal namesake, Louis Sockalexis of the Maine Penobscots. The article mentioned above claimed the Penobscots' tribal council opposing Wahoo, so I'm not sure how receptive they would be to the team working with them to "refine" the brand. 

 

(Shameless) Link:

 

Turn that apocryphal story, used to justify the old identity, into something productive.

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That is a fantastic idea, @SFGiants58.  I think I now remember you sharing it before.

 

It's such an elegant and simple solution.  Work with the people involved to mitigate any concerns about appropriation or appropriateness.  And as we've seen with Spokane, that can result in a fantastic logo.

 

 

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On 9/7/2018 at 2:13 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

 

This guy did it better:

 

ebd__0017_layer-11.jpg?w=1000

My hero😊

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On 9/11/2018 at 8:42 PM, Gothamite said:

That is a fantastic idea, @SFGiants58.  I think I now remember you sharing it before.

 

It's such an elegant and simple solution.  Work with the people involved to mitigate any concerns about appropriation or appropriateness.  And as we've seen with Spokane, that can result in a fantastic logo.

 

 

 

But does the Penobscot tribe have any connection to Cleveland or Ohio? They're more or less associated with Maine than anything. The more likely connection would be some more well-known tribes like Iroquois or Chippewa. According to https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/history-of-native-americans/history-of-ohio-indians.htm, the word "Ohio" was derived from the Iroquois for "beautiful river". So the Iroquois would seem to be the likely tribe for a visual theme or imagery.

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Absolutely. 

 

But given that there are no recognized nations in Ohio, they’re going to be working with a secondary connection anyway, why not reach out to the tribe of the man they supposedly named the club after?  Take the apocryphal myth and give it some modern basis in reality.

 

Or work with a nation that used to live in Ohio.  Or both.  Either way, those are the people who should be part of any rebranding that keeps the name. 

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I only learned of the sale of the Spiders remaining assets to the proto-indians recently. But what does assets mean? Could it be as minor as leftover balls and bats?

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