NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[FCMacbeth]

1 hour ago, CS85 said:

ESPN has a great read on how the NHL conned players into going to Edmonton's bubble which was, by one account, a prison with a Tim Horton's truck in its exercise yard.

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29939605/nhl-bubble-confidential-go-toronto-edmonton-playoff-hubs

 

 

"Even playing golf was a hassle," one Western Conference player said. "You have to set up a golf time. It has to be an exact time, but it has to be everybody or nobody. Realistically, what team is going to set up a full-team golf outing between Games 3 and 4 in the second round?"

 

It wasn't just the lack of golf trips that irked players. "They promised us excursions: 'Oh, we're going to have fly fishing and golf, a golf course just for us -- you can go whenever you want -- and a field,'" a Western Conference player said. "We went to the field one time. It was a fight to even golf once. And please let me know if you talk to anyone who went fly fishing."

In fact, fly fishing became a punchline.

 

"In the little brochure they sent, there was a picture of a man fly fishing in the mountains, and one of the guys was like, 'Where did they get this picture of the mountains? The mountains are three hours away,'" a Western Conference player said.

Why would ESPN make an article that consists of players whining about not being able to do their favourite activities? Is playing NHL 21 not enough for them?

[Red Comet]

8 minutes ago, Friedrich Stuart Macbeth said:

Why would ESPN make an article that consists of players whining about not being able to do their favourite activities? Is playing NHL 21 not enough for them?

 

Hockey is already an afterthought as far as ESPN is concerned. It's some Canadian sport (nevermind the sport they cover the most was invented by a Canadian) so why should they care? 

 

I'm more surprised they wrote the article in the first place.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Red Comet

[Ridleylash]

12 hours ago, monkeypower said:

I also think the Panthers have overtaken the Coyotes in the relocation race. There's supposedly a out clause in the lease after the 2023 season and there's not a lot of positives coming out of Sunrise recently, or I guess over their entire history too.

This is the big ticket reason; the Coyotes, as historically terribly-run as they are, don't have that problem, since Glendale seems perfectly fine with just constantly re-upping the Coyotes' lease at GRA even if the team is terrible on the ice; plus, Phoenix is a larger media market than Miami-Fort Lauderdale. It makes little sense to move a team that the city is practically paying you to keep around.

 

Plus, expansion to Houston makes more fiscal sense; you know someone would pay the expansion fee to ice a hockey team in Houston, so why waste that sizeable expansion fee and settle for a relocation team? Moving the Cats to Québec makes more sense because, being honest, expansion likely isn't the way to go for that market; the CAD just isn't really strong enough for an expansion QC team and Florida's getting really, really bad in terms of attendance; the Coyotes are trending up in that sense, ala the Hurricanes.

 

1 hour ago, Red Comet said:

Regarding the most likely potential owner of a Houston NHL team, Mr. Fertitta does think he'll make even more money once the pandemic fully subsides (my guess is fully subsides would be considered when most of the US population is vaccinated against COVID) as he does own a lot of restaurant chains. Time will tell of course.

If Fertitta thinks he'll be making boatloads of cash once the pandemic subsides, Meruelo should also be making boatloads of cash, since he owns the Sahara and Grand Sierra; once the pandemic subsides, he'll be making gangbusters on tourists who've been spending most of the year stuck in place. I have a feeling that once this all settles down (or, seeing how things have been progressing with this presidency's downplaying, if things settle down), Meruelo will rebound pretty well.

[Fitzy0220]

1 hour ago, kiwi_canadian said:

 

Oh please! What a bunch of whiners. If they didn't like it, they could opt out at any time without having any repercussions. So you didn't get to go fly fishing or golfing when you wanted? Just shut up already! You are one of the few lucky people to not have to worry about possibly not having a place to live or food to eat during all this. There are millions of people who have lost their jobs and ways of life during this COVID thing and you are complaining you don't get to go fishing? Sounds like their are a pretty entitled bunch. I'm getting tired of athletes who make millions of dollars to play a game complaining about their way of life.

 

There, my rant is over.

HARUMPF!! 100% Agreed. After 14yrs (almost 6 full months on Furlough), I was a victim of covid closures. I have spent the last 2 weeks scrambling like a chicken with it's head cut off trying to secure a job for myself so I can help support my Family, problem is, a lot of places are coming off of a Hiring Freeze and now have a crap ton of people (whom lost their jobs thanks to covid) vying for the same 2,3 jobs. So please spare me the song and dance act. Tuukka Rask left the Bubble, other players could do the same

[Fitzy0220]

1 minute ago, Fitzy0220 said:

HARUMPF!! 100% Agreed. After 14yrs (almost 6 full months on Furlough), I was a victim of covid closures. I have spent the last 2 weeks scrambling like a chicken with it's head cut off trying to secure a job for myself so I can help support my Family, problem is, a lot of places are coming off of a Hiring Freeze and now have a crap ton of people (whom lost their jobs thanks to covid) vying for the same 2,3 jobs. So please spare me the song and dance act. Tuukka Rask left the Bubble, other players could do the same

to add to this, ok so the Bubble isn't all Rainbows and Unicorns full of Fun stuff to do, try doing a 6 moth tour of duty on a Naval Ship during a time of unrest (my first Med Cruise was Nov '91, tensions were still high after the Gulf War), doing nothing but circles in the Adriatic Sea waiting for something to happen. Waaa Waaa we can't fly fish, we cannot golf (because ya know, a lot of the peasant golf courses aren't open either or open on a Limited Basis so the peasants cannot golf every hour of every day either) 

[CS85]

Bunch of grizzled, “uphill both ways” takes.  

[monkeypower]

3 hours ago, CS85 said:

ESPN has a great read on how the NHL conned players into going to Edmonton's bubble which was, by one account, a prison with a Tim Horton's truck in its exercise yard.

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29939605/nhl-bubble-confidential-go-toronto-edmonton-playoff-hubs

 

 

"Even playing golf was a hassle," one Western Conference player said. "You have to set up a golf time. It has to be an exact time, but it has to be everybody or nobody. Realistically, what team is going to set up a full-team golf outing between Games 3 and 4 in the second round?"

 

It wasn't just the lack of golf trips that irked players. "They promised us excursions: 'Oh, we're going to have fly fishing and golf, a golf course just for us -- you can go whenever you want -- and a field,'" a Western Conference player said. "We went to the field one time. It was a fight to even golf once. And please let me know if you talk to anyone who went fly fishing."

In fact, fly fishing became a punchline.

 

"In the little brochure they sent, there was a picture of a man fly fishing in the mountains, and one of the guys was like, 'Where did they get this picture of the mountains? The mountains are three hours away,'" a Western Conference player said.

 

As someone who's from Calgary and lives in Edmonton for school, I (and a bunch of other Albertans) already kind of knew that some of this was going to be the case. Some of the promo videos showed the mountains and Edmonton isn't part of the mountains, if it was a Calgary bubble than the mountains could be a possibility, but not Edmonton. The Toronto bubble also always seemed to be the better of the two and the comments from players here now look to prove that. I have not gotten around to driving up to the arena and bubble to see it for myself but maybe I should make the time to after this article.

 

I know some Edmonton teams went to the Rec Room, which I would describe as a more upscale Dave & Busters (as someone who hasn't been to a Dave & Busters), but that's a 20-ish minute drive away and I only saw video evidence of two teams going there and it probably was just for an afternoon.

 

There was also a little noise that players were ready to complain about the amenities right when they got to the bubbles, but then they (or their agents) saw what was being said about the NBA players complaining about that bubble (as seen here in this thread) and nixed it.

 

2 hours ago, kiwi_canadian said:

Oh please! What a bunch of whiners. If they didn't like it, they could opt out at any time without having any repercussions. So you didn't get to go fly fishing or golfing when you wanted? Just shut up already! You are one of the few lucky people to not have to worry about possibly not having a place to live or food to eat during all this. There are millions of people who have lost their jobs and ways of life during this COVID thing and you are complaining you don't get to go fishing? Sounds like their are a pretty entitled bunch. I'm getting tired of athletes who make millions of dollars to play a game complaining about their way of life.

 

There, my rant is over.

 

So this kind of thing has come up many times about the NHL and NBA players in the bubbles.

 

Is there a personal wealth or privilege threshold that we as a society have decided that when broken by a person, they are not allowed to complain about anything anymore?

 

With the NHL bubbles, specifically the Edmonton one, it's clear that the NHL overpromised (and underdelivered) at best and straight up lied at worst about what the players would be able to do and be able to have. They've been locked in and isolated for two months now, I know that if I was a player, I would be having mental and emotional health issues with the bubble.

 

I could also say that I'm tired of people like you complaining about hockey players complaining, when you are so entitled because you have internet access and the ability to watch hockey when there are people in third world countries that will never get easy access to clean water in their life.

 

Everybody is privileged in some form or another and it becomes just a sad game of trying to reverse outdo each other and policing what can and cannot make other people sad or unhappy depending on their status.

 

Are there times when the sadness can be a bit much when you do consider the context? Yes.

 

Is it easier to just fallback on the money argument and post zombielandwoodyharrelsonwipingtearswithmoney.gif to upvotes or retweets? Also yes.

 

Do I think it's right? No.

[Fitzy0220]

7 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

As someone who's from Calgary and lives in Edmonton for school, I (and a bunch of other Albertans) already kind of knew that some of this was going to be the case. Some of the promo videos showed the mountains and Edmonton isn't part of the mountains, if it was a Calgary bubble than the mountains could be a possibility, but not Edmonton. The Toronto bubble also always seemed to be the better of the two and the comments here now looks to show that. I have not gotten around to driving up to the arena and bubble to see it for myself but maybe I should make the time to after this article.

 

I know some Edmonton teams went to the Rec Room, which I would describe as a more upscale Dave & Busters (as someone who hasn't been to a Dave & Busters), but that's a 20-ish minute drive away and I only saw video evidence of two teams going there and it probably was just for an afternoon.

 

There was also a little noise that players were ready to complain about the amenities right when they got to the bubbles, but then they (or their agents) saw what was being said about the NBA players complaining about that bubble (as seen here in this thread) and nixed it.

 

 

So this kind of thing has come up many times about the NHL and NBA players in the bubbles.

 

Is there a personal wealth or privilege threshold that we as a society have decided that when broken by a person, they are not allowed to complain about anything anymore?

 

With the NHL bubbles, specifically the Edmonton one, it's clear that the NHL overpromised (and underdelivered) at best and straight up lied at worst about what the players would be able to do and be able to have. They've been locked in and isolated for two months now, I know that if I was a player, I would be having mental and emotional health issues with the bubble.

 

I could also say that I'm tired of people like you complaining about hockey players complaining, when you are so entitled because you have internet access and the ability to watch hockey when there are people in third world countries that will never get easy access to clean water in their life.

 

Everybody is privileged in some form or another and it becomes just a sad game of trying to reverse outdo each other and policing what can and cannot make other people sad or unhappy depending on their status.

 

Are there times when the sadness can be a bit much when you do consider the context? Yes.

 

Is it easier to just fallback on the money argument and post zombinelandwoodyharrelsonwipingtearswithmoney.gif to upvotes or retweets? Also yes.

 

Do I think it's right? No.

I agree with you to an extent! It's not so much these Athletes are complaining, it's (for me anyway) more that they act like we're living in the Stone Ages and Modern Technology doesn't exist

Bold - for almost 2 months PA Residents weren't allowed to leave their Houses (except to go to Store), I know in my community, the Karens were out in full force, if you tried to go for a walk around the local High School Football Field / Track, then they would shame you on social media for it. At least in the bubble they don't have friends / neighbors turning on them and trying to get them into trouble for being out and about. 
Try being in the Military and on a 6 month Cruise (before modern technology like email, zoom, skype, texting) when a hand written letter took 10 Days just to reach it's destination and then waiting for a reply letter back. Hell, I'll take sitting in a Bubble with my Xbox, iPhone, Laptop, iPad, things so I can communicate with my Friends and Family on a second to second, minute to minute, hour to hour daily basis as opposed to sitting on a ship for 2 months, where communication is a hand written letter....that doesn't take a mental toll on a person?

Underline - Exactly, being that I was in Other Countries (while in the Navy, I see how other people live. We are very very fortunate to have the amenities / freedoms / luxuries that we enjoy while other parts of the world can't even afford basic human needs. Take Italy as an example, you have 3 generations of a family living in what is a standard 2 bedroom Apt (here in the States). Egypt, children were sent to the docks to peddle homemade wares for money because their family is so poor and living in a single room shanty. Everyone knows the hardships of Ethiopia and such so don't need to go there

Italicized - My wife is a Social Worker and we see this a lot. Her one family is a family of 11, they cannot afford $20 Discounted tickets to Kennywood Park while  (and we see this because we belong to many different Disney sites) there are people complaining about their Annual Disney Pass going up in price
 

[kiwi_canadian]

44 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

As someone who's from Calgary and lives in Edmonton for school, I (and a bunch of other Albertans) already kind of knew that some of this was going to be the case. Some of the promo videos showed the mountains and Edmonton isn't part of the mountains, if it was a Calgary bubble than the mountains could be a possibility, but not Edmonton. The Toronto bubble also always seemed to be the better of the two and the comments from players here now look to prove that. I have not gotten around to driving up to the arena and bubble to see it for myself but maybe I should make the time to after this article.

 

I know some Edmonton teams went to the Rec Room, which I would describe as a more upscale Dave & Busters (as someone who hasn't been to a Dave & Busters), but that's a 20-ish minute drive away and I only saw video evidence of two teams going there and it probably was just for an afternoon.

 

There was also a little noise that players were ready to complain about the amenities right when they got to the bubbles, but then they (or their agents) saw what was being said about the NBA players complaining about that bubble (as seen here in this thread) and nixed it.

 

 

So this kind of thing has come up many times about the NHL and NBA players in the bubbles.

 

Is there a personal wealth or privilege threshold that we as a society have decided that when broken by a person, they are not allowed to complain about anything anymore?

 

With the NHL bubbles, specifically the Edmonton one, it's clear that the NHL overpromised (and underdelivered) at best and straight up lied at worst about what the players would be able to do and be able to have. They've been locked in and isolated for two months now, I know that if I was a player, I would be having mental and emotional health issues with the bubble.

 

I could also say that I'm tired of people like you complaining about hockey players complaining, when you are so entitled because you have internet access and the ability to watch hockey when there are people in third world countries that will never get easy access to clean water in their life.

 

Everybody is privileged in some form or another and it becomes just a sad game of trying to reverse outdo each other and policing what can and cannot make other people sad or unhappy depending on their status.

 

Are there times when the sadness can be a bit much when you do consider the context? Yes.

 

Is it easier to just fallback on the money argument and post zombielandwoodyharrelsonwipingtearswithmoney.gif to upvotes or retweets? Also yes.

 

Do I think it's right? No.

 

Okay take the amount they earn out of the equation. For argument sake, they make $55 806.40, which is for an average Canadian working a 40 hour work week. They still had the option for opting out of the bubble for the remainder of the season with no financial repercussion. How many people during this entire thing had that option? I doubt really anyone had that. The point is, these guys had work (which lots lost their job, including people who worked in the arenas they played in) AND had the option to not work and get out of the bubble WITH PAY. So to me they don't get to complain, especially when they had an easy out. 

[CS85]

39 minutes ago, kiwi_canadian said:

 

Okay take the amount they earn out of the equation. For argument sake, they make $55 806.40, which is for an average Canadian working a 40 hour work week. They still had the option for opting out of the bubble for the remainder of the season with no financial repercussion. How many people during this entire thing had that option? I doubt really anyone had that. The point is, these guys had work (which lots lost their job, including people who worked in the arenas they played in) AND had the option to not work and get out of the bubble WITH PAY. So to me they don't get to complain, especially when they had an easy out. 

 

So my office calls and says they want me to return to work for a few months.  They've got a hotel a couple miles away from the office all outfitted for us.

 

They put in all this work, money, and effort to get as many of the vital employees back to the building.  They say they need me, it wouldn't be the same without me, the company'd go under.  There's a lot riding on me coming back.  They tell me they've got premium vending machines and food trucks that'll constantly be in and out of the parking lots and cafeteria and all of it free of charge; I get a heavy-duty laptop bag with the company logo on it, I get the premium parking spot, and it would absolutely factor into me not only keeping my job during a time of financial uncertainty, but likely earning me a hefty raise afterward because of my participation.  Plus they're putting us in a swanky hotel, and family visits are totally an option!  How could I say no?

They do admit that yeah, I could just stay home and get my paychecks for no work at all, but not only is that a bad look, it really shows where I put my priorities to my co-workers.  They're choosing to come back to the office, they're willing to wear masks, get routinely tested, and deal with the inconvenience and discomfort -- why am I better than that?  And they also tell me that I definitely earned my position in this company.  I've worked hard, put in the hours, built the necessary bridges and skillsets, so why put that at risk?  Why open the opportunity for somebody younger, somebody cheaper to come in who is willing to fill my absences, and potentially do my tasks better than me, all while the higher-ups see that I'm sitting at home playing on my Nintendo Switch collecting a full-time paycheck. 

 

So in spite of my wife's objections, I tell her I'm gonna head into the office to show my loyalty, and give up a few months at home with her and our dogs so that I can do right by my employer and put my best foot forward. 

 

I see a bunch of my coworkers there at the hotel when I arrive, and we get about going to work.  We find out pretty much right away that things aren't quite what they seem.  The premium vending machines and food trucks?  They're just a local sandwich place bringing the same selection of ham or turkey with a bag of plain lays every afternoon, and it's certainly not free of charge.  The heavy duty laptop bag is made of some sort of cheap fibers that had holes in it after only a couple weeks.  The premium parking they promised is already being used by the executive committee and their project managers, so we all park in the rear like we used to anyway, and the hotel they put us in is alright, I suppose, but the minifridge reeks and there's been construction outside my tiny window every morning.  Plus they put a freeze on raises for at least a calendar year.

 

We asked about having our families visit us, but the management of our company and the hotel could never make it work, and they gave us a shrug-off, so we dropped the matter.

 

But hey, I put on my mask, I do the temperature checks, and I do my job the best I can.  I'm getting paid, after all, and a lot of people have it a lot worse than I do.  After a couple months, time seems to stop.  We can't go anywhere but maybe a few different places in our hotel or the office building, but even that's heavily restricted, and we all miss our families, who we're not allowed to see.  It's not permanent, so we're all looking forward to our opportunity to go home, but it's definitely not what was promised. 

This guy, a local reporter, calls around and says he's curious how our company is treating us, promising complete confidentiality.  A lot of us got together and discussed what we should do.  We all agreed that our company kind of blew smoke up our asses about all this, especially as concerns a lot of guys at home with their families, looking pretty smart and getting paid for declining the offer, but you know what we did?

We told that reporter to GO TO HELL, because our company paid us, and when you get money, you're not allowed to complain.  That's the law.  If you break that law, you should be shot and killed.  You're weak.  You're pathetic. 

 

And the next time my company wants me to leave my family for 3-4 months and con me into staying in a low-rent living experience, by god I'm gonna do it, and I'm not gonna complain, because I got money.  And lotsa people don't  have money, and don't have jobs, so they do get to complain.  So if I want to complain, I gotta get fired and be broke.  Which sucks, because I really want to complain, but I'm not a wimpy sissyman. 
 

Anyways, I'm going back to work now.  Decided I'm gonna walk between the hotel and the office instead of driving.  Only thing is, I'd better not run into that homeless guy I usually see begging for change.  "I got no job, I got no money, wah me, waaaah me."  Lazy piece of crap - all he ever does is complain.

[monkeypower]

Were they even paid for the bubble? I genuinely don't know.

 

I know they don't get paid for the playoffs in a normal year, but were they still paid for the qualifying round games because those weren't technically playoff games? I wouldn't think it would be allowed, contractually or whatever, to pay the bubble players and not play the non-bubble players.

 

There would also still be the pay for last few weeks of the season once the season shut down. Did that ever get sorted out?

[monkeypower]

Back on topic,

 

 

[The_Admiral]

We must not do the things previous owners have done which we have also just done.

[JayMac]

There may be a franchise in the big 4 of sports that has historically had management bumble their way through but none do it better than the Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes of Glendale.

[Ridleylash]

1 hour ago, JayMac said:

There may be a franchise in the big 4 of sports that has historically had management bumble their way through but none do it better than the Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes of Glendale.

The New York Knicks. Also, the New York Jets.

[JayMac]

Just now, Ridleylash said:

The New York Knicks. Also, the New York Jets.

They are both definitely in the running but I'm not sure they beat the Coyotes

[TBGKon]

On 9/20/2020 at 6:42 PM, the admiral said:

Third ownership group in seven years. When was the last time a team got passed around that quickly without involving some major scandal (e.g., John Spano)?

Lightning were owned by Palace Sports thru early 2008, then sold to the Saw producer Oren Koules and Len Barrie until 2010 when Jeff Vinik took ownership.

 

Needless to say that happened because Koules and Barrie were incompentent and couldn't handle it.

[Fitzy0220]

1 hour ago, JayMac said:

There may be a franchise in the big 4 of sports that has historically had management bumble their way through but none do it better than the Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes of Glendale.

Not sure if this qualifies but early Pittsburgh Penguins. Late 60s, 70s up until drafting Lemieux. Traded away #1 picks for aging Vets (aka Hockey Card players), being beaten out Attendance wise by the Pittsburgh Spirit (M.I.L.S), 1st Bankruptcy.

Also like to include the 90s (specifically the howard baldwin years). Failure to jump on the Plan B Initiative (with the Pirates and Steelers) to get a New Arena. Selling off the Pens / Franchise rights to non Hockey Concessions and Parking revenue (Pens got all the Parking / Concessions revenue generated by non Hockey events such as: Concerts, WWF, monster Jam, etc. Overpaying Vet players when they didn't have the money to do so (Ego is writing checks the Franchise didn't have sorta thing)(me thinks that Non Hockey Revenue might have come in handy when paying the Players). 2nd Bankruptcy

[The_Admiral]

54 minutes ago, TBGKon said:

Lightning were owned by Palace Sports thru early 2008, then sold to the Saw producer Oren Koules and Len Barrie until 2010 when Jeff Vinik took ownership.

 

Needless to say that happened because Koules and Barrie were incompentent and couldn't handle it.

 

Ah yes, OK Hockey, the group that brought Barry Melrose out of a 15-year retirement and fired him after like 12 games. Folks, I gotta tell ya, there was nothing OK about them at all!

[Ridleylash]

Like, the Lightning were hemorrhaging nearly 20 million dollars a year at one point; and that's in the late 90's, so the equivalent of 30 million dollars per year in more current terms. People were questioning Tampa's viability as a market not so long ago because of how bad things were for the Lightning; and keep in mind this is a team that, in the same decade as people were beginning wondering when they'd move, had won a Stanley Cup.

 

Jeff Vinik acquiring the franchise and turning it from a clownshow into a model organization is probably why the Tampa Bay area even still has an NHL team; and it's an excellent example of how a franchise in a non-traditional market can not only work, but thrive. The Predators did something similar; built a strong team and now the Preds have a diehard and loyal fanbase in a market where not long prior they'd been on the cusp of moving to Hamilton.

 

Tom Dundon's done the same thing for Carolina; built a team that's fun and exciting to watch, and people are coming to see them now when you'd be asking "When are the Hurricanes moving?" not that long beforehand. Turns out, having an org that's not a clownshow is a good way for a team to attract people to their games.

 

That's why Arizona has had trouble. That's why Atlanta failed. It's not just about the market, it's about having a well-run organization.