the admiral

NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

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9 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Third ownership group in seven years. When was the last time a team got passed around that quickly without involving some major scandal (e.g., John Spano)?

good question.  

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11 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Third ownership group in seven years. When was the last time a team got passed around that quickly without involving some major scandal (e.g., John Spano)?

at this point with them, I think it could be they will only leave Arizona kicking and screaming.  

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The  cost of contracting four teams would be huge, wouldn't it? Wouldn't all the teams basically have to but the contracting teams out?

 

Wouldn't 'suspending operations' be more apt, letting the owners still 'hold the team' for some time without fielding a team before just selling the franchise to another billionaire or folding as a last resort? 

 

Is the NHL (and major sports in general) just an operation that is too big to fail or is bankruptcy and vanishing franchises a reality?

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23 minutes ago, schlim said:

The  cost of contracting four teams would be huge, wouldn't it? Wouldn't all the teams basically have to but the contracting teams out?

 

Wouldn't 'suspending operations' be more apt, letting the owners still 'hold the team' for some time without fielding a team before just selling the franchise to another billionaire or folding as a last resort? 

 

Is the NHL (and major sports in general) just an operation that is too big to fail or is bankruptcy and vanishing franchises a reality?

Would the Players Union have any input on that as well?

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32 minutes ago, schlim said:

The  cost of contracting four teams would be huge, wouldn't it? Wouldn't all the teams basically have to but the contracting teams out?

 

Wouldn't 'suspending operations' be more apt, letting the owners still 'hold the team' for some time without fielding a team before just selling the franchise to another billionaire or folding as a last resort? 

 

Is the NHL (and major sports in general) just an operation that is too big to fail or is bankruptcy and vanishing franchises a reality?

 

They'll move the Yotes to Houston before that happens. Also, you'd need to find three other teams that are in just as rough shape as the Yotes and that doesn't seem to be the case right now. 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/rockets-owner-hasnt-given-dream-houston-nhl-team/

Edited by Red Comet

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On 9/17/2020 at 4:43 PM, Sodboy13 said:

Oh, I am of the belief that the league is going to be down to 28 teams by the time the 2022-23 season starts, and I do think Ottawa, Buffalo, and Florida are your prime candidates for getting vaporized, alongside Florida.

 

The Coyotes are the easy punching bag because we've been discussing their persistent failures and edge-of-doom existence on this board for over 11 years.

Wow -- I didn't know it was so bad in Florida that they could get contracted twice 😁

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See, the thing for me is that Phoenix-to-Houston...doesn't really gain the NHL that much in terms of footprint. You're going from the 11th largest TV market to the 8th; a jump of...three spots. There's not really that much of an inherent benefit to Houston over Phoenix in terms of footprint of market. Besides, why waste Houston as a relocation team when it's practically perfect for a nice big chunk of expansion change once this has all blown over? We all know it's basically a given that sports leagues will likely be looking at expansion as a means of recouping from the COVID losses once things are back to normal.

 

Plus, the only arena there'd be is Toyota Center, and no way in hell is Fetitta not leveraged to hell with his purchase of the Rockets and Toyota Center. The only way he'd be able to have a chance at a team is to group together with a bunch of other businessmen and try that; but, at least if I recall correctly, the meetings he had with the BoG weren't the smoothest affairs, and I can't imagine some of his comments went over very well with other owners (that "hockey struggles south of the Mason-Dixie line, and it's a fact" one in particular would likely rub some owners the wrong way).

 

If I'm the NHL, I'm not wasting an easy place to get a big expansion check from as a rebound from a economic downturn on a relocation team which would fetch a significantly smaller fee. Florida-Québec makes more logical sense since there's two of the major components in place; an ownership group that plays by the NHL's rules and an arena up to modern standards; and it's dead-simple to do logistically, since you really only have to edit one name. The main hurdle there, though, is the CAD.

 

Houston, by contrast, has the arena, but ownership is a problem. They want Houston, but do they want it as a relocation? I'm not sure on that.

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12 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

We all know it's basically a given that sports leagues will likely be looking at expansion as a means of recouping from the COVID losses once things are back to normal.

I've only heard baseball going this route, the NHL seems set at 32, along with the NFL. Maybe MLS will add another 16 teams, but it seems only baseball is going to come out of all this forever radically changed, from teams to rules to playoffs, etc. The NHL may change a couple seats at the table, but unless they're in a way, way worse situation, I can't see any changes amounting to the cumulative changes from  around 1995-2000. The league started the new century in a radically different place than they did the decade before with relocations, expansion, rule changes,  etc.

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24 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

See, the thing for me is that Phoenix-to-Houston...doesn't really gain the NHL that much in terms of footprint. You're going from the 11th largest TV market to the 8th; a jump of...three spots. There's not really that much of an inherent benefit to Houston over Phoenix in terms of footprint of market. Besides, why waste Houston as a relocation team when it's practically perfect for a nice big chunk of expansion change once this has all blown over? We all know it's basically a given that sports leagues will likely be looking at expansion as a means of recouping from the COVID losses once things are back to normal.

 

Plus, the only arena there'd be is Toyota Center, and no way in hell is Fetitta not leveraged to hell with his purchase of the Rockets and Toyota Center. The only way he'd be able to have a chance at a team is to group together with a bunch of other businessmen and try that; but, at least if I recall correctly, the meetings he had with the BoG weren't the smoothest affairs, and I can't imagine some of his comments went over very well with other owners (that "hockey struggles south of the Mason-Dixie line, and it's a fact" one in particular would likely rub some owners the wrong way).

 

If I'm the NHL, I'm not wasting an easy place to get a big expansion check from as a rebound from a economic downturn on a relocation team which would fetch a significantly smaller fee. Florida-Québec makes more logical sense since there's two of the major components in place; an ownership group that plays by the NHL's rules and an arena up to modern standards; and it's dead-simple to do logistically, since you really only have to edit one name. The main hurdle there, though, is the CAD.

 

Houston, by contrast, has the arena, but ownership is a problem. They want Houston, but do they want it as a relocation? I'm not sure on that.

 

They willingly downgraded from Atlanta to Winnipeg. They'll keep a team in a big but underperforming market until they cannot anymore. Also, they're already moving Arizona to the same division as the Stars. Might as well move them to the same state as them too. Also, Houston has a LOT of Fortune 500 companies that would buy up the suites.

Edited by Red Comet

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10 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

They willingly downgraded from Atlanta to Winnipeg.

The move from Atlanta to Winnipeg was a move of necessity more than one of will; the NHL's hands were tied due to the circus act Atlanta Spirit was pulling on the franchise's potential buyers. Hell, the entire reason the NHL basically gifted True North the Thrashers was because they had to move the Thrashers from Atlanta or outright fold them; we all know True North's original goal was the old Jets, but the Coyotes, for all their financial turmoil, weren't exactly being kicked out of their own rink with nowhere else to play. They were the easier team to keep around, especially since Glendale was bending over backwards to please the NHL.

 

If ASG doesn't do literally everything in their power to kill the Thrashers and the NHL can get the team sold to new ownership, the Thrashers stay in Atlanta, the Coyotes may or may not have moved (I'd hazard it's pretty possible, but the NHL likely would not have wanted to lose the Phoenix market to Winnipeg if it could be helped) and Winnipeg may or may not still be waiting for a second NHL team.

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18 hours ago, schlim said:

I've only heard baseball going this route, the NHL seems set at 32, along with the NFL. Maybe MLS will add another 16 teams, but it seems only baseball is going to come out of all this forever radically changed, from teams to rules to playoffs, etc. The NHL may change a couple seats at the table, but unless they're in a way, way worse situation, I can't see any changes amounting to the cumulative changes from  around 1995-2000. The league started the new century in a radically different place than they did the decade before with relocations, expansion, rule changes,  etc.

 

the NBA might consider it and the two new NBA teams will probably be Seattle and Las Vegas, which is what I don't want but it's inevitable that the NBA is next for Vegas after NHL and NFL.  

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On 9/20/2020 at 6:40 PM, goalieboy82 said:

via here:

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29922436/gary-bettman-says-coronavirus-raises-many-uncertainties-nhl-including-start-2020-21-season

"The only good news in this context is that the ownership of the 31, soon to be 32, NHL franchises has never been stronger and healthier," Bettman said. He said that includes the Arizona Coyotes, as recent reports had them missing bonus payments to players and their arena Insert other media management company, something Bettman chalked up to a new ownership group's learning curve on operating a franchise.


Paying your bills on time is part of a learning curve?  Is this freshman orientation?

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On 9/20/2020 at 5:42 PM, the admiral said:

Third ownership group in seven years. When was the last time a team got passed around that quickly without involving some major scandal (e.g., John Spano)?


The moribund franchise without a fan base known as the New England Patriots saw control of the team handed off from Billy Sullivan to Victor Kiam in 1988, then to James Orthwein in 1992, then Kraft in 1994. They also almost moved to St. Louis, Hartford and rumors of Providence? and probably 74 other cities in that time as well.
 

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7 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

the NBA might consider it and the two new NBA teams will probably be Seattle and Las Vegas, which is what I don't want but it's inevitable that the NBA is next for Vegas after NHL and NFL.  

Certainly Seattle, with KeyArena being rebuilt (and I believe having a basketball configuration, correct me if I'm wrong) it's basically a matter of which Seattle businessman wants to pay the most. It's a given that when NBA expansion happens Seattle will be one of the two, the only question is who's the other one. As you said my money's on Vegas, sadly, but Kansas City, Louisville, and possibly Anaheim or another west coast city to hopefully get Minnesota into the East with their Great Lakes brethren. 

 

As for the NHL, if Florida keeps heading down this path they'll be the second Sun Belt team gone to Canada, this time to Quebec. The Coyotes seem to be in more danger immediately, however, and moving them to the Central with Dallas makes me think Houston is the prime relocation spot. I wouldn't mind, Phoenix has been a disaster for a while and while losing the Kachinas will be rough, the team and league would be better off for it. Just my two cents, however.

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I don't know if Anaheim is going to get an NBA team because I don't know if a third team in that market would fly and I don't know the Samueli's interest in a basketball team. I know the Clippers had toyed with moving to Anaheim a couple times in the past, but that's clearly off the table now, and the Kings were reportedly pretty close to moving there around a decade ago, but that never happened. There are going to be improvements and renovations made to the Honda Center in time for the 2028 Olympics so maybe there could be more talk about an NBA team in Anaheim then, but even then I don't know if it'll happen.

 

(A Seattle group also tried to buy the Kings back in 2013 and move them to Seattle, but the relocation was voted against by the owners and the sale bid was withdrawn)

 

I think Ridley's got a decent point about Phoenix to Houston, I do think Houston would be more of an expansion candidate and not a relocation one. I also don't know how well the Rockets owner is doing financially right now.

 

I also think the Panthers have overtaken the Coyotes in the relocation race. There's supposedly a out clause in the lease after the 2023 season and there's not a lot of positives coming out of Sunrise recently, or I guess over their entire history too.

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9 hours ago, monkeypower said:

I don't know if Anaheim is going to get an NBA team because I don't know if a third team in that market would fly and I don't know the Samueli's interest in a basketball team. I know the Clippers had toyed with moving to Anaheim a couple times in the past, but that's clearly off the table now, and the Kings were reportedly pretty close to moving there around a decade ago, but that never happened. There are going to be improvements and renovations made to the Honda Center in time for the 2028 Olympics so maybe there could be more talk about an NBA team in Anaheim then, but even then I don't know if it'll happen.

 

(A Seattle group also tried to buy the Kings back in 2013 and move them to Seattle, but the relocation was voted against by the owners and the sale bid was withdrawn)

 

I think Ridley's got a decent point about Phoenix to Houston, I do think Houston would be more of an expansion candidate and not a relocation one. I also don't know how well the Rockets owner is doing financially right now.

 

I also think the Panthers have overtaken the Coyotes in the relocation race. There's supposedly a out clause in the lease after the 2023 season and there's not a lot of positives coming out of Sunrise recently, or I guess over their entire history too.

I cant wait until that time when the Panthers relocate to Houston, deeming the realignment excuse useless. We all know that the NHL just doesn't want a team in Quebec City again.

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ESPN has a great read on how the NHL conned players into going to Edmonton's bubble which was, by one account, a prison with a Tim Horton's truck in its exercise yard.

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29939605/nhl-bubble-confidential-go-toronto-edmonton-playoff-hubs

 

 

"Even playing golf was a hassle," one Western Conference player said. "You have to set up a golf time. It has to be an exact time, but it has to be everybody or nobody. Realistically, what team is going to set up a full-team golf outing between Games 3 and 4 in the second round?"

 

It wasn't just the lack of golf trips that irked players. "They promised us excursions: 'Oh, we're going to have fly fishing and golf, a golf course just for us -- you can go whenever you want -- and a field,'" a Western Conference player said. "We went to the field one time. It was a fight to even golf once. And please let me know if you talk to anyone who went fly fishing."

In fact, fly fishing became a punchline.

 

"In the little brochure they sent, there was a picture of a man fly fishing in the mountains, and one of the guys was like, 'Where did they get this picture of the mountains? The mountains are three hours away,'" a Western Conference player said.

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Regarding the most likely potential owner of a Houston NHL team, Mr. Fertitta does think he'll make even more money once the pandemic fully subsides (my guess is fully subsides would be considered when most of the US population is vaccinated against COVID) as he does own a lot of restaurant chains. Time will tell of course. 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/15/tilman-fertitta-restaurants-can-be-more-profitable-after-coronavirus-.html

Edited by Red Comet

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13 minutes ago, CS85 said:

ESPN has a great read on how the NHL conned players into going to Edmonton's bubble which was, by one account, a prison with a Tim Horton's truck in its exercise yard.

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29939605/nhl-bubble-confidential-go-toronto-edmonton-playoff-hubs

 

 

"Even playing golf was a hassle," one Western Conference player said. "You have to set up a golf time. It has to be an exact time, but it has to be everybody or nobody. Realistically, what team is going to set up a full-team golf outing between Games 3 and 4 in the second round?"

 

It wasn't just the lack of golf trips that irked players. "They promised us excursions: 'Oh, we're going to have fly fishing and golf, a golf course just for us -- you can go whenever you want -- and a field,'" a Western Conference player said. "We went to the field one time. It was a fight to even golf once. And please let me know if you talk to anyone who went fly fishing."

In fact, fly fishing became a punchline.

 

"In the little brochure they sent, there was a picture of a man fly fishing in the mountains, and one of the guys was like, 'Where did they get this picture of the mountains? The mountains are three hours away,'" a Western Conference player said.

 

Oh please! What a bunch of whiners. If they didn't like it, they could opt out at any time without having any repercussions. So you didn't get to go fly fishing or golfing when you wanted? Just shut up already! You are one of the few lucky people to not have to worry about possibly not having a place to live or food to eat during all this. There are millions of people who have lost their jobs and ways of life during this COVID thing and you are complaining you don't get to go fishing? Sounds like their are a pretty entitled bunch. I'm getting tired of athletes who make millions of dollars to play a game complaining about their way of life.

 

There, my rant is over.

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