NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[Gothamite]

When the mayor can't even be bothered to put the customary "mystery buyer" spin on this, they're in real trouble.

C'mon, Gary. Do the right thing. You've held on long enough that you can't be blamed anymore in Arizona, and you'll be a hero in Quebec.

[rvrdgsfn]

When the mayor can't even be bothered to put the customary "mystery buyer" spin on this, they're in real trouble.

C'mon, Gary. Do the right thing. You've held on long enough that you can't be blamed anymore in Arizona, and you'll be a hero in Quebec.

This is how I see it, with a lockout looming, he needs to get something done, he needs to cut his losses & just put them in Quebec, they have a buyer ready, a new arena in the next few years & fans willing to pay good money to go watch along with a strong history in Quebec City, c'mon Gary it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what needs to be done.

Even the Mayor of QC thinks its not if but when... Found of HF Boards

The questions came up about Quebec and the NHL and he said, roughly-- ''The renovations to the Colisee are all pretty much set, we have drawings almost all made up and an open offer will be in motion come April''

then he said ''Everything is calculated, on time, on target, on budget..I hope''

Another question. Could you tell us what you've heard?

''I'd rather not answer that, you'll understand that my relationship with the NHL is good at the moment and i'd like to keep it that way'' shrugs shoulders.. ''and up till now we're still hoping''

Edited March 16, 2012 by rvrdgsfn

[The_Admiral]

What a bullet we dodged with the whole Hamilton thing.

Oh hey, to address this.

All the way back to when Balsillie got involved, I was skeptical of how this Hamilton/Cambridge/"Southern Ontario" thing would ever work out, because no matter how many people may live in this not-quite-Toronto-but-still-well-populated-Ontario blob, no matter how much money there is in the region, they're still encroaching on one of the biggest sports institutions in North America, and doing so long after sports business, coverage, and media have crystallized into the cultural monolith that it is today. To reprise my food metaphor from the failed Anaheim Royals story of last spring, it does no good to talk about how big "the pie" is in southern California because the Lakers already ate the whole pie. Similarly, it's hard to believe that the serious money in Ontario, which I've gotten the impression tends toward the old and sclerotic, would stop doing business with MLSE, themselves being kind of old and sclerotic, and take their business to an unknown commodity run by a guy who by all accounts is kind of a boor. There's also the impression that most of what you'd be looking at in terms of fan support would probably be along the lines of "well, I've always loved the Leafs, and my family has always loved the Leafs, but I could also sorta get behind Hamilton, when they're not playing the Leafs," and that's with the Leafs being in what might be the worst rut they've ever been in. The whole thing just felt like a spoiled rich kid who got caught in a thunderstorm with his iPod (or Blackberry, as the case may be), so he petulantly demanded that he get a replacement right away to use in the meantime till the old iPod dried back out and worked again. If the Leafs weren't expensively sucking for seven years inside their dead-quiet suit convention, I would find it hard to believe that many people in Hamilton or Guelph or Kitchener or even London would be willing to change their allegiances from The Passion That Unites Us All to some other team. Oh, and the Maple Leafs would hit them up for hundreds of millions in indemnities. Hamilton has zero chance of long-term viability. Markham or "Toronto 2" or whatever, less than zero.

[Lee.]

So you're saying the Legend will be an ECHL team?

[Evil Doctor]

What a bullet we dodged with the whole Hamilton thing.

Oh hey, to address this.

All the way back to when Balsillie got involved, I was skeptical of how this Hamilton/Cambridge/"Southern Ontario" thing would ever work out, because no matter how many people may live in this not-quite-Toronto-but-still-well-populated-Ontario blob, no matter how much money there is in the region, they're still encroaching on one of the biggest sports institutions in North America, and doing so long after sports business, coverage, and media have crystallized into the cultural monolith that it is today. To reprise my food metaphor from the failed Anaheim Royals story of last spring, it does no good to talk about how big "the pie" is in southern California because the Lakers already ate the whole pie. Similarly, it's hard to believe that the serious money in Ontario, which I've gotten the impression tends toward the old and sclerotic, would stop doing business with MLSE, themselves being kind of old and sclerotic, and take their business to an unknown commodity run by a guy who by all accounts is kind of a boor. There's also the impression that most of what you'd be looking at in terms of fan support would probably be along the lines of "well, I've always loved the Leafs, and my family has always loved the Leafs, but I could also sorta get behind Hamilton, when they're not playing the Leafs," and that's with the Leafs being in what might be the worst rut they've ever been in. The whole thing just felt like a spoiled rich kid who got caught in a thunderstorm with his iPod (or Blackberry, as the case may be), so he petulantly demanded that he get a replacement right away to use in the meantime till the old iPod dried back out and worked again. If the Leafs weren't expensively sucking for seven years inside their dead-quiet suit convention, I would find it hard to believe that many people in Hamilton or Guelph or Kitchener or even London would be willing to change their allegiances from The Passion That Unites Us All to some other team. Oh, and the Maple Leafs would hit them up for hundreds of millions in indemnities. Hamilton has zero chance of long-term viability. Markham or "Toronto 2" or whatever, less than zero.

Oh puhl-eeez... So many people would drop the Leafs in a heartbeat, they are only supported because the exist and they are the nearest team, not because of any affection for the team or any great love for Toronto. While I agree that Markham would be a failure, that would be more due to the arena unable to pull in other concert revenue away from the competing Air Canada Centre.

Seriously every study and everyone's common sense tells you that a team in Hamilton would a top financial team, as long a Copps gets renovated that is....

[rams80]

And the Sabres would...?

[The_Admiral]

Oh puhl-eeez... So many people would drop the Leafs in a heartbeat, they are only supported because the exist and they are the nearest team, not because of any affection for the team or any great love for Toronto.

While I agree that the Maple Leafs greatly benefit from the fact that they do, indeed, exist, I have trouble believing that the most valuable hockey team in the world is doing it on mere affectionless settling west of Mississauga. How long did it take Ottawa to stop being a colony of the Leafs and carve out a fandom unto itself? Judging by some of their crowds when the Leafs come to town, they still haven't 100% done it. And with Ottawa (and while we're in the neighborhood, Quebec City vis-a-vis Montreal and the Habs), you're talking about an altogether separate metropolis several hours away from the other city. This nebulous land of "Southwestern Ontario" (which I don't include London in) is just some point at which commuting to Toronto gets to be kind of a hassle.

Could there have been a team in Hamilton? Maybe, just like Long Island and New Jersey were able to get their own teams in the long shadow of the Rangers, but remember that the Islanders were only created as a hasty real estate ploy to freeze out the WHA rather than to address a groundswell of hockey demand in Nassau County. A Hamilton/SWON team, were it to be established today, well after sports became big-big-big business, would do acceptably at best while forever keeping an eye on the fortunes of their big brother downtown. It reminds me of how people periodically suggested that the Chicago Wolves jump to the NHL as a "protest team" for Blackhawks fans, or how the Grizzlies were going to move to Chicago and compete with the Bulls when they were in the dark period. Somehow I don't think many people would be dedicated fans of the Wolves or Grizzlies anymore.

[Sodboy13]

But they were going to build such a beautiful facility in Dixmoor...

[The_Admiral]

I didn't know it was going to be near Wrigley Field.

[Sodboy13]

No, that's Moordix.

[CubsFanBudMan]

But, would the Blackhawks and/or Bulls had the success they've had if the market had been shared?

As barely a casual fan of hockey, the Blackhawks' seemed awfully vulnerable before WWW's death, including the oft-cited Sunday Wolves outdraw. (Just once, mind you.) However, those that said the Hawks' fanbase was a sleeping giant weren't kidding. Their rebound was incredible even before they won the Cup. Not to give too much cresite to the former Cubs' PR team, but Hawks games became the place to be and they hadn't won anything... jut like that group's old squad.

Now the Bulls, somehow they managed to keep pulling in droves even during the dark days of guys like Tim Floyd and Jim Boylan. No idea how. I went to some Bucks games in 2001 as an alternative, but I doubt many others did. Same fate probably would have welcomed the Grizzlies in Dixmoor.

More than anything, I'd like somebody to stick a palace in the suburbs (no Detroit pun intended) and lure an NFL team and a Super Bowl or 3. Outside of the United Center (and perhaps Toyota Park at the MLS level), the facilities are sorely lacking, and Chicago misses out on big events (to Indy especially) as a result. I think they've maximized the Cell, but there was only so much they could do because of their unfortunate timing.

Still, I believe that New York could handle another baseball team, L.A. could have handled another basketball team pre-Chris Paul because of the Clippers' shadow status, and in all likeihood, Toronto would be the place to be for a two-team hockey town.

[njmeadowlanders]

But, would the Blackhawks and/or Bulls had the success they've had if the market had been shared?

As barely a casual fan of hockey, the Blackhawks' seemed awfully vulnerable before WWW's death, including the oft-cited Sunday Wolves outdraw. (Just once, mind you.) However, those that said the Hawks' fanbase was a sleeping giant weren't kidding. Their rebound was incredible even before they won the Cup. Not to give too much cresite to the former Cubs' PR team, but Hawks games became the place to be and they hadn't won anything... jut like that group's old squad.

Now the Bulls, somehow they managed to keep pulling in droves even during the dark days of guys like Tim Floyd and Jim Boylan. No idea how. I went to some Bucks games in 2001 as an alternative, but I doubt many others did. Same fate probably would have welcomed the Grizzlies in Dixmoor.

More than anything, I'd like somebody to stick a palace in the suburbs (no Detroit pun intended) and lure an NFL team and a Super Bowl or 3. Outside of the United Center (and perhaps Toyota Park at the MLS level), the facilities are sorely lacking, and Chicago misses out on big events (to Indy especially) as a result. I think they've maximized the Cell, but there was only so much they could do because of their unfortunate timing.

Still, I believe that New York could handle another baseball team, L.A. could have handled another basketball team pre-Chris Paul because of the Clippers' shadow status, and in all likeihood, Toronto would be the place to be for a two-team hockey town.

It could but it couldn't if that makes sense. I know, I know, Yankees/Dodgers/Giants and all that, but that was a bygone era. The Mets filled the NL void and that was already 50 years ago. In today's world, a new team would really only draw people who couldn't afford to go to Mets/Yankees games, couldn't easily get to Mets/Yankees games, and their only draw would really be hosting the Mets/Yankees. If it were 1950 it's one thing. In 2012, it's just not going to happen.

And if you WERE to do it, you'd almost certainly have to put the team in Jersey. You can't do it in Manhattan (look at what the Jets wanted to do, and that was just for 8 Sundays a year, we know how that ended, imagine 81 dates with weeknights and mid-week matinees), the Yankees and Mets would charge a TON for the rights, and the Mets and Yankees are located where it's easy enough to get there from the city and Long Island. From Jersey you still need a couple of bridges or train transfers. (When I'm not living in California I'm about 10 minutes west of Newark, and on a weekend it's about 50-60 minutes to Flushing for the Mets, which is fine, but not THAT frequently). I think you'd have to do it in Jersey, and even then, the other teams are just too well established and in this day and age, I don't think it would work.

If you had 3 teams here for the last 60 years, it'd be one thing. But adding it now would make viability quite tough. If the Mets and Yanks were in the same league that may be a different story, or if the Mets never existed and you still had a National League void in 2012, those are ways a new team here could work. But as is, not in 2012.

Insert joke here about the Mets not being NY's 2nd team.

[The_Admiral]

From twitter:

les gens occupant le Colisée auraient eu l'ordre de faire un "ménage" dans leurs locaux.

"The gentlemen occupying the Colisee will have to make order of the mess in their place."

I think Quebec City just evicted the Remparts

[RyanB06]

From twitter:

les gens occupant le Colisée auraient eu l'ordre de faire un "ménage" dans leurs locaux.

"The gentlemen occupying the Colisee will have to make order of the mess in their place."

I think Quebec City just evicted the Remparts

I think your translation's off. Google Translate says: "People occupying the Colisee would have to order a "household" in their premises". I think what it means is not that the Remparts are out, but that they would have to be a secondary tenant in the case an NHL team moves in (until the new arena is built).

[rams80]

I think Quebec City just evicted the Remparts

They must not like Patrick Roy that much.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, but if you click on some of the alternate translations, you can also get "people occupying the Coliseum would have to order a "cleaning" in their offices." Which sounds more like the "pack your crap" I read it as.

[rams80]

Yeah, but if you click on some of the alternate translations, you can also get "people occupying the Coliseum would have to order a "cleaning" in their offices." Which sounds more like the "pack your crap" I read it as.

True. Kind of odd they aren't using the Edmonton/Calgary model of arena sharing though.

[RyanB06]

Yeah, but if you click on some of the alternate translations, you can also get "people occupying the Coliseum would have to order a "cleaning" in their offices." Which sounds more like the "pack your crap" I read it as.

Now that you mention it that way, yep, that's exactly what it looks like.

[The_Admiral]

Well, I don't know what kind of scheduling they have at the Colisee for next year. It might be that there won't be enough dates for the Nordiques, Remparts, and concerts/conventions/whatever, so the Remparts may have to move to a smaller building or out of town altogether. At any rate, the Nords are gonna need the office space.

EDIT: http://qmjhlarenaguide.com/jeunesse.htm

This seems like a good alternative site for the Remparts. Youth Pavilion!

[aci]

Yeah, but if you click on some of the alternate translations, you can also get "people occupying the Coliseum would have to order a "cleaning" in their offices." Which sounds more like the "pack your crap" I read it as.

Now that you mention it that way, yep, that's exactly what it looks like.

My French is by no means perfect, but I'm reading it as 'housekeeping' as a euphemism for 'packing your crap' as well. A good sign for Quebec hockey fans and anyone who doesn't like Patrick Roy.