NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[TheOldRoman]

If Quebec ever does become independent, wouldn't the Canadiens name seem a little strange? It would be like naming a team the Vancouver Americans.

[The_Admiral]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

[RedSox44]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

Pretty much. Bloc Quebecois retained only four seats in parliament in the 2011 election.

[crashcarson15]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

Pretty much. Bloc Quebecois retained only four seats in parliament in the 2011 election.

NDP! NDP! NDP!

[njmeadowlanders]

The Montreal Quebecois...

[IceCap]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

It was kind of the thing of the past generation, really. Most young Quebecois, from my own experiences and from the polls I've seen, don't give it much of a thought. The only reason the Parti Quebecois is still a force in the province is because it's the de facto left wing/progressive choice. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop the separatist part of their platform in the next ten or fifteen years.

Even with the fall of the separatist movement, though, Quebec still does consider itself a nation within a nation. The government confirmed that sentiment a few years ago. Not only is Quebec City called the "Capitale-Nationale," but the provincial legislator is called the "Assemblee nationale." Their logo's pretty French-Bourbon-esque and everything!

http://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/index.html

[RedSox44]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

Pretty much. Bloc Quebecois retained only four seats in parliament in the 2011 election.

NDP! NDP! NDP!

I'm actually a great admirer of Jack Layton and was legitimately saddened when I heard of his death.

[RedSox44]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

It was kind of the thing of the past generation, really. Most young Quebecois, from my own experiences and from the polls I've seen, don't give it much of a thought. The only reason the Parti Quebecois is still a force in the province is because it's the de facto left wing/progressive choice. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop the separatist part of their platform in the next ten or fifteen years.

Even with the fall of the separatist movement, though, Quebec still does consider itself a nation within a nation. The government confirmed that sentiment a few years ago. Not only is Quebec City called the "Capitale-Nationale," but the provincial legislator is called the "Assemblee nationale." Their logo's pretty French-Bourbon-esque and everything!

http://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/index.html

So...sort of like Catalonia and Basque Country in Spain? Legitimate question, I'm just wondering.

[IceCap]

Kinda-sorta. There's always been talk of Quebec being distinct in some way. Political language all the way back to Confederation in 1867 talks about Canada's two "founding peoples." In fact provinces, as we know them now, wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the French Canadian element. Sir John A. Macdonald, our first PM and one of the leading Fathers of Confederation, wanted the new Dominion of Canada to be a unitary state. Given the influence Macdonald had, he likely would have gotten his way if the French Canadians didn't protest. In a unitary Canadian state they'd be at the whim of the combined Anglophone majority. So provinces, as we know them, were created. It was understood that though all the provinces were legally administrative sub-divisions of a greater whole (as a concession to Macdonald), Quebec existed as an entity within which French Canadians could have religious (French Canadian society at the time was VERY Catholic, whereas the rest of Canada was of Anglican stock), social, linguistic, and political independence (all within the confines of the larger Dominion, of course).

So the notion that Quebec's been "a nation within a nation" is nothing new. It's always been there. It was just "confirmed" by the government in 2006. As far as I know, outside of the official declaration, nothing's changed. It's still one province among ten. Culturally, symbolically, and traditionally it's seen as something unique, but legally it's just another province.

[RedSox44]

Kinda-sorta. There's always been talk of Quebec being distinct in some way. Political language all the way back to Confederation in 1867 talks about Canada's two "founding peoples." In fact provinces, as we know them now, wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the French Canadian element. Sir John A. Macdonald, our first PM and one of the leading Fathers of Confederation, wanted the new Dominion of Canada to be a unitary state. Given the influence Macdonald had, he likely would have gotten his way if the French Canadians didn't protest. In a unitary Canadian state they'd be at the whim of the combined Anglophone majority. So provinces, as we know them, were created. It was understood that though all the provinces were legally administrative sub-divisions of a greater whole (as a concession to Macdonald), Quebec existed as an entity within which French Canadians could have religious (French Canadian society at the time was VERY Catholic, whereas the rest of Canada was of Anglican stock), social, linguistic, and political independence (all within the confines of the larger Dominion, of course).

So the notion that Quebec's been "a nation within a nation" is nothing new. It's always been there. It was just "confirmed" by the government in 2006. As far as I know, outside of the official declaration, nothing's changed. It's still one province among ten. Culturally, symbolically, and traditionally it's seen as something unique, but legally it's just another province.

Very informative. Thank you, Cap.

[crashcarson15]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

Pretty much. Bloc Quebecois retained only four seats in parliament in the 2011 election.

NDP! NDP! NDP!

I'm actually a great admirer of Jack Layton and was legitimately saddened when I heard of his death.

As was I. If I were Canadian and of age, would have definitely voted for Mr. Layton in this past year's elections. My (Canadian) friend and I even "campaigned" for him down here in the States.

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we?ll change the world."

[Magnus]

http://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/index.html

What a site title.

[RedSox44]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

Pretty much. Bloc Quebecois retained only four seats in parliament in the 2011 election.

NDP! NDP! NDP!

I'm actually a great admirer of Jack Layton and was legitimately saddened when I heard of his death.

As was I. If I were Canadian and of age, would have definitely voted for Mr. Layton in this past year's elections. My (Canadian) friend and I even "campaigned" for him down here in the States.

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we?ll change the world."

It's just a shame he never got a chance to lead the government of Canada.

That quote is spectacular. I have a bunch of inspiring and/or beautiful quotes on Post-it notes on my bedroom wall, and that's one of them.

[Evil Doctor]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

Pretty much. Bloc Quebecois retained only four seats in parliament in the 2011 election.

NDP! NDP! NDP!

I'm actually a great admirer of Jack Layton and was legitimately saddened when I heard of his death.

As was I. If I were Canadian and of age, would have definitely voted for Mr. Layton in this past year's elections. My (Canadian) friend and I even "campaigned" for him down here in the States.

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we?ll change the world."

It's just a shame he never got a chance to lead the government of Canada.

That quote is spectacular. I have a bunch of inspiring and/or beautiful quotes on Post-it notes on my bedroom wall, and that's one of them.

Why am I picturing your bedroom looking a bit like this...?

[RedSox44]

I've always thought the same thing! But separatism is all but dead now. They like their equalization subsidies too much.

Pretty much. Bloc Quebecois retained only four seats in parliament in the 2011 election.

NDP! NDP! NDP!

I'm actually a great admirer of Jack Layton and was legitimately saddened when I heard of his death.

As was I. If I were Canadian and of age, would have definitely voted for Mr. Layton in this past year's elections. My (Canadian) friend and I even "campaigned" for him down here in the States.

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we?ll change the world."

It's just a shame he never got a chance to lead the government of Canada.

That quote is spectacular. I have a bunch of inspiring and/or beautiful quotes on Post-it notes on my bedroom wall, and that's one of them.

Why am I picturing your bedroom looking a bit like this...?

Not quite on that scale. Yet.

And not enough Red Sox memorabilia.

[The_Admiral]

http://www.glendales...19bb2963f4.html

It is Lieberman's contention the quicker the city stops playing around – it's been nine months this go-round – the better off the city would be.

"I don't want the Coyotes sold," Lieberman said. "I want them to go bye-bye. With 40 events (to replace Coyotes games), with the sales tax and $4 surcharge, we can make that a successful venture. I think we can do it."

The dates are more valuable on anything but hockey? It's beginning to look a lot like Georgia.

Pretty damning when a Glenderp elected official says "I want them to go bye-bye."

[HedleyLamarr]

The dates are more valuable on anything but hockey? It's beginning to look a lot like Georgia.

Pretty damning when a Glenderp elected official says "I want them to go bye-bye."

Many performers and conventions prefer that there not be ice on the arena's floor.

It also costs a lot to have a hockey team. Take away the players' salaries and team's costs of operating a hockey team at the NHL level, you still have to factor in:

-Paying for a "conversion crew" when the arena hosts concerts, shows, and other events during the season.

-Energy costs for the refrigerator coils and air conditioning to keep the arena at the temperatures that the NHL requires.

-Ice maintenance and materials needed for the zambonis, etc. On game days alone, the ice gets cleaned at least 10 times throughout the day. It also gets cleaned on non-game days, even if it hasn't been used since the previous game. Maintaining the ice that the NHL wants is hella intensive.

Considering the team (and, I assume, the arena) doesn't have an owner, these are hefty costs that the city of Glendale is picking up.

[The_Admiral]

That's interesting. Stuff I sorta probably figured, but didn't really know the details of, like just how labor-intensive it is to maintain pro-quality ice. (Even the United Center can't.) So thanks for the inside look.

The city owns the arena, so I assume it's on them to pay for ice maintenance. The team pays rent, but then again what the city has to pay the team to stay is more than the team pays in rent, so Peter and Paul and so forth. I see now why they might have to shut down their public libraries to keep this thing going. God, air conditioning on that place alone.

So hey, how's the Philips Arena calendar doing after the Thrashers' eviction, anyway? Everything the Quorum of Asshats hoped for?

[zpqmaowl]

So hey, how's the Philips Arena calendar doing after the Thrashers' eviction, anyway? Everything the Quorum of Asshats hoped for?

I clicked it then had to do a double take.

[HedleyLamarr]

So hey, how's the Philips Arena calendar doing after the Thrashers' eviction, anyway? Everything the Quorum of Asshats hoped for?

I'm totally stealing this nickname, by the way.....

Can't really get a good tell on the calendar until this fall. Remember, Atlanta Spirit had to commit to "business as usual" until the NHL officially approved the sale of the team in mid-June...so they had to keep dates open to host 41-44+ games (including preseason and postseason) just in case the sale fell through or the sale wasn't approved. Many performers/concerts/shows/conventions need at least 9 months (most are one full year, or even more) advance notice on whether a venue is available for use. And the NBA lockout and subsequent schedule reshuffling wasn't beneficial to bringing in events to the arena.

But getting rid of a hockey team (and all the expenses that go into owning a team) was pretty much addition by subtraction...especially when they aren't exactly the richest of owners to begin with.