NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[Viper]

The dates are more valuable on anything but hockey? It's beginning to look a lot like Georgia.

Pretty damning when a Glenderp elected official says "I want them to go bye-bye."

Many performers and conventions prefer that there not be ice on the arena's floor.

It also costs a lot to have a hockey team. Take away the players' salaries and team's costs of operating a hockey team at the NHL level, you still have to factor in:

-Paying for a "conversion crew" when the arena hosts concerts, shows, and other events during the season.

-Energy costs for the refrigerator coils and air conditioning to keep the arena at the temperatures that the NHL requires.

-Ice maintenance and materials needed for the zambonis, etc. On game days alone, the ice gets cleaned at least 10 times throughout the day. It also gets cleaned on non-game days, even if it hasn't been used since the previous game. Maintaining the ice that the NHL wants is hella intensive.

Considering the team (and, I assume, the arena) doesn't have an owner, these are hefty costs that the city of Glendale is picking up.

In essence, this means it would make more economic sense to bring back the NLL's Arizona Sting (no ice needed for indoor lacrosse, a max of 11 home dates a year, crowds not that much smaller than the Coyotes get now) and make them the arena's primary tenant than to keep the Coyotes around. "Bizarre" doesn't begin to do the situation justice.

[Evil Doctor]

http://www.glendales...19bb2963f4.html

And the admiral saves the thread!

(Love the title change too...)

[RedSox44]

"I want them to go bye-bye."

Oh, if only Bettman agreed.

[The_Admiral]

The owners want them to go bye-bye.

Derrière les portes closes, tous mettent de la pression sur Gary Bettman (le commissaire de la LNH) pour que la ligue cesse d'investir des millions afin de maintenir les Coyotes à Phoenix. Plusieurs disent qu'ils ne veulent plus mettre d'argent là-bas

Behind closed doors, all put pressure on Gary Bettman (the commissioner of the NHL) that the league will cease to invest millions so as to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix. Many say they don't want to put any more money down there.

Semi-related: no one has closed on the Blues sale yet, so the NHL is still funding and operating them, too.

[mattwswfc]

The beginning of the end......

[DaytonBlue]

The owners want them to go bye-bye.

Derrière les portes closes, tous mettent de la pression sur Gary Bettman (le commissaire de la LNH) pour que la ligue cesse d'investir des millions afin de maintenir les Coyotes à Phoenix. Plusieurs disent qu'ils ne veulent plus mettre d'argent là-bas

Behind closed doors, all put pressure on Gary Bettman (the commissioner of the NHL) that the league will cease to invest millions so as to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix. Many say they don't want to put any more money down there.

Semi-related: no one has closed on the Blues sale yet, so the NHL is still funding and operating them, too.

I believe the Blues are still being funded by Dave Checketts and his investors. His investors want out, but last I heard were willing to wait on a sale? Did something change that I missed?

It still worries me that a team like the Blues, which always draws well when they are trying, playing in a still relatively modern building the team completely controls (they technically lease it from the city but they control), still loses money unless they at least win a playoff series.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, that doesn't exactly speak to a healthy league.

[mattwswfc]

It would be Gary Bettman's darkest hour if he moves the Blues out of St. Louis, they are obviously in a viable market with a suitable arena, that also happen draw well like you said.

[IceCap]

It'll be interesting to see what happens if the reports that the owners want out of Glendale are true. For all the talk about who exactly holds the power within the NHL, this will be quite telling.

[NJTank]

Gary Bettman is the worst commissioner ever, so until he is gone the NHL will have issues.

[The_Admiral]

I believe the Blues are still being funded by Dave Checketts and his investors. His investors want out, but last I heard were willing to wait on a sale? Did something change that I missed?

It still worries me that a team like the Blues, which always draws well when they are trying, playing in a still relatively modern building the team completely controls (they technically lease it from the city but they control), still loses money unless they at least win a playoff series.

Checketts and Towerbrook mailed the keys after Hulsizer Part II went teats-up, I'm pretty sure. So much like with the bargain-basement sale of the Lightning, the league is handling negotiations with Stillman.

It is weird that despite their very solid support, the St. Louis Blues are seemingly on the brink of calamity roughly every, oh, what, five years? They've been sold three or four times simply because the owners couldn't take the bleeding anymore. They almost moved to Saskatoon. They sat out an entire draft because they thought they were going to fold. I think part of the problem is that the Blues aren't charging what the market will bear for tickets, advertising, rights fees, and so forth. The other part is that St. Louis is in all likelihood overextended as a three-sport town. I don't get the scaremongering over Gary Bettman letting the Blues leave. A team might leave town, but it won't be the Blues.

But anyway, we're hearing more and more about the owners having their fill with the Phoenix losses, Glenderp might not have the $25 million they owe the league for staying, and Quebec City is renovating the Colisee. The dots are ready for connecting.

The beginning of the end......

Was three and a half years ago when the league began surreptitiously funding the team prior to bankruptcy

[STL FANATIC]

Yep, my understanding is that the Blues are essentially being funded by the NHL. It's not as dire as a lot of times you hear that sort of thing (the Coyotes for instance), but true nonetheless.

Reports out of St. Louis today say that the Stillman group is yet closer to closing their purchase. It may well be true. Every time we heard it, it may well have been true. But it's been reported about 90 times, so these must be baby steps. They're saying within weeks now. I hope so. I'm tired of it being up in the air. It SOUNDS like the future is secure, but it's not done yet.

But saying that, the Blues aren't moving. There's too many worse situations than the Blues. If the Blues fail as a franchise, it would mean something catastrophic for the league. Like massive contraction.

I think Admiral has it right. It's largely about ticket prices and advertising fees. It's always been that way, but when the lockout, Laurie sale, and purging of all big contracts and good players happened in 04-05, it got amplified. You had a weakened fan base from the lockout and an awful hockey team on the ice. You just weren't going to sell tickets in a mid-sized market without bringing the prices down. They've slowly gone up, but because the Blues have only had one playoff appearance and won no games, they've never been able to justify ratcheting them up substantially all at once.

The rebuilding plan is finally paying off, and I think you'll see a healthy price increase for next season. If the Blues manage to win a series or two or more this year and bring in that extra revenue, their earnings will likely see a great jump. If they could also flip that into increased TV revenue and such, that would be a big bonus.

I don't know if the St. Louis hockey can every be super profitable, but it should be able to get out of the red if things go decently well on the ice. Here's hoping that it's finally headed that way.

The sham that was the Blues vs. Blackhawks last night was reportedly the highest rated Blues game on Fox Sports Midwest ever, so that would bode well for them being able to negotiate higher TV revenue at some point.

[The_Admiral]

I think the Brewers had a similar windfall a few years ago when they finally re-upped their FSN contract for something resembling fair market value. Seligette had locked them into some really long, poor TV deal such that they weren't making anything close to what ratings dictated in 2007/2008.

Incidentally, the fact that Dave Checketts pinned his sale hopes to the guy who couldn't afford to buy a team for negative money makes me question his business acumen.

[STL FANATIC]

I think the Brewers had a similar windfall a few years ago when they finally re-upped their FSN contract for something resembling fair market value. Seligette had locked them into some really long, poor TV deal such that they weren't making anything close to what ratings dictated in 2007/2008.

Since you went baseball, I'm hoping that the Cardinals can manage to do the same thing. TV contracts have really exploded lately. It's how the Angels were able to land the Cardinals former first baseman. St. Louis doesn't remotely rival the size of LA, but the number of fans who tune into the games might. Regardless, I'm not suggesting they ought to be able to match that deal, only that they can probably do a lot better than they are now. TV money has mattered for a while, but it seems only lately it's become such a major, major source of team revenue to the point of really effecting payroll.

Incidentally, the fact that Dave Checketts pinned his sale hopes to the guy who couldn't afford to buy a team for negative money makes me question his business acumen.

I'll always be thankful to Checketts for taking the Blues at one of their lowest points, giving them some stability, and making the moves necessary to lay a strong foundation for the future. But it seems he never really had enough funds to make this work for the long-term and he hasn't executed an exit strategy in an effective way.

[The_Admiral]

Hmm, whichever brownfield QC wanted to build on is apparently too contaminated to decontaminate (with what? years' worth of rotten poutine? LOL!), so they're just tearing down the Hippodrome and building it there.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/dossiers/vers-un-nouveau-colisee/201203/13/01-4505278-amphitheatre-le-terrain-de-lhippodrome-devenu-incontournable.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B13b_la-capitale_577_section_POS2

Selon M. Labeaume, c'est la découverte de «poches» de sol très contaminé sur le site choisi au départ, celui au coin de Laurentienne et Hamel, et les règles strictes du ministère de l'Environnement qui ont forcé la Ville à se diriger vers l'hippodrome.

According to Mr. Labeaume, it's the discovery of "pockets" of very contaminated soil on the starting chosen site, there on the corner of Laurentienne and Hamel, and the strict rules of the Ministry of the Environment who have forced the city to operate near the Hippodrome.

So this will be the façade of the new arena. Kinda reminds me of the London Knights' rink, where the façade is the shell of an old building and the rest of the structure looks modern. Pretty cool. See? What a bullet we dodged with the whole Hamilton thing.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Hmm, whichever brownfield QC wanted to build on is apparently too contaminated to decontaminate (with what? years' worth of rotten poutine? LOL!), so they're just tearing down the Hippodrome and building it there.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/dossiers/vers-un-nouveau-colisee/201203/13/01-4505278-amphitheatre-le-terrain-de-lhippodrome-devenu-incontournable.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B13b_la-capitale_577_section_POS2

Selon M. Labeaume, c'est la découverte de «poches» de sol très contaminé sur le site choisi au départ, celui au coin de Laurentienne et Hamel, et les règles strictes du ministère de l'Environnement qui ont forcé la Ville à se diriger vers l'hippodrome.

According to Mr. Labeaume, it's the discovery of "pockets" of very contaminated soil on the starting chosen site, there on the corner of Laurentienne and Hamel, and the strict rules of the Ministry of the Environment who have forced the city to operate near the Hippodrome.

So this will be the façade of the new arena. Kinda reminds me of the London Knights' rink, where the façade is the shell of an old building and the rest of the structure looks modern. Pretty cool. See? What a bullet we dodged with the whole Hamilton thing.

As long as a spaceship doesn't land on that thing, it should look pretty cool.

[rams80]

Incidentally, the fact that Dave Checketts pinned his sale hopes to the guy who couldn't afford to buy a team for negative money makes me question his business acumen.

I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of thankful he wasn't able to buy the Rams.

[STL FANATIC]

Incidentally, the fact that Dave Checketts pinned his sale hopes to the guy who couldn't afford to buy a team for negative money makes me question his business acumen.

I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of thankful he wasn't able to buy the Rams.

I agree now. At the time it sounded glorious. That said, he might have had better investors behind him for that one. In any case, it doesn't matter since Kroenke was going to match.

[HedleyLamarr]

But saying that, the Blues aren't moving. There's too many worse situations than the Blues. If the Blues fail as a franchise, it would mean something catastrophic for the league. Like massive contraction.

When it comes to team relocation, "team situations" isn't the be-all, end-all.

There were multiple teams that were in worse situations, financially-speaking, than the Thrashers. All it takes is a perfect storm of events to happen.

[Gothamite]

True enough. It doesn't really matter what the situations with other teams are. Every team is an island here.