(NHL Playoffs) Rite of Spring 2017: can't go on, no, I'll go on

[The_Admiral]

10 minutes ago, FlyEaglesFly76 said:

Are people seriously bringing in the race card? I never used Twitter and abandoned Reddit long ago.

Kind of but probably not the way you think. It's more that a weird sort of groupthink has coalesced around Subban, this obsession with proving that he's Actually Good at every turn instead of just appreciating him as an elite player with positives and negatives to his game.

[sparkychewbarky]

1 hour ago, Red Wolf said:

 

Here we see Sidney Crosby gloriously defending himself.

 

Here we see Sidney Crosby trying to shake his stick lose, but P.K. keeps getting his head in the way.

If Subban didn't like the head noogies, he should have just let go of Crosby's stick (and leg).

They both deserved penalties.

[Viola73]

6 hours ago, McCarthy said:

 

Holding someone's leg because they're repeatedly punching your head into the ice isn't even close to matching infractions. 

 

You have it backwards. He was being punched in the head because he wouldn't let go of Crosbys leg. Crosby said, after the game, that Sabban was trying to do some MMA crap to his ankle and he didn't take kindly to it.

[Viola73]

2 hours ago, sparky chewbarky said:

 

Here we see Sidney Crosby trying to shake his stick lose, but P.K. keeps getting his head in the way.

If Subban didn't like the head noogies, he should have just let go of Crosby's stick (and leg).

They both deserved penalties.

Actually, I think Crosby was trying to force feed Sabban some breath mints.

; )

[mcj882000]

2 hours ago, sparky chewbarky said:

 

Here we see Sidney Crosby trying to shake his stick lose, but P.K. keeps getting his head in the way.

If Subban didn't like the head noogies, he should have just let go of Crosby's stick (and leg).

They both deserved penalties.

I'll repeat, he was holding onto & pulling Crosby's leg because he was trying to pull Crosby off of him. Y'know, self-defence? Acting like this is somehow equivalent and that Subban somehow deserved that is, in my opinion at least, absurd and dishonest.

[Viola73]

3 hours ago, mcj882000 said:

Looking at the play from that gif... well , I wonder why PK was pulling on Crosby's leg? Maybe it's because he was trying to get the guy beating his head into the ice off of him!

If someone is pounding my head into the ground I don't hold on to them. I try to get them off of me...like pushing them away, or trying to untangle myself from them. 

[mcj882000]

55 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

If someone is pounding my head into the ground I don't hold on to them. I try to get them off of me...like pushing them away, or trying to untangle myself from them. 

That's what he is doing in that gif though.

[YELDARBfield]

1 hour ago, Viola73 said:

You have it backwards. He was being punched in the head because he wouldn't let go of Crosbys leg. Crosby said, after the game, that Sabban was trying to do some MMA crap to his ankle and he didn't take kindly to it.

This is after Sidney overreacted to a clean hockey check by bringing down PK by the neck and shoulder pads. Since we're all backwards here...

 

Sid's leg was on top of PK's left arm. It's not like PK picked him up the leg and swinging him like a rag doll. Sid was clearly in the dominant position is this scuffle and has little-to-no right to the victim's role in this particular instance. That hit by PK in Game 1? Sure. But using that to justify Sid's Headbangers Ball in Game 5 is similar to justifying Hunter Strickland's throw at Harper a while back because of Harper's HR like 3 years ago.

[BeerGuyJordan]

7 hours ago, McCarthy said:

Thankfully we now have Connor McDavid to provide a good face for the league. 

Except NBC will limit his exposure, so long as he plays for a Canadian team. These playoffs are the first significant exposure most of the US viewer-base has had, to him.

[MiK]

Not entirely convinced that Viola73 isn't actually Crosby himself posting on these boards...

 

What if Crosby's secret dream was to be a goon and he just accidentally was extremely talented. So he felt like he had to carry this burden of being the best in hockey and has done so for quite a while but now is realizing that there's more to life than success; he just wants to be happy. And he's only happy while he's pummeling another player's head on the ice.

[HedleyLamarr]

8 hours ago, ltp74 said:

Ummm, Subban holding Crosby's stick and leg and keeping him from getting up could have been called too. Also the ref's ignored Subban punching Sid in the head in Game 1 and have let A LOT of things slide in this series so this monocle dropping and pearl clutching for Sid "giving the business" to Subban is kind of funny.

Subban was called for holding.  As was Crosby.  Not that anything that happened from Game 1 was relevant to Game 5 as far as calling penalties goes.  And yeah, the refs let a lot of things slide.....especially when it's been Crosby that's been the beneficiary of "letting things slide".  Continuous blows to the head and throwing water bottles onto the ice are just two fresh examples.

 

Watch that gif.  Look at Crosby looking to see where the ref is, where the play is, then move his leg over Subban to try to hide that he was hitting him in the head instead of struggling to get up.  And again, when the NHL is seemingly making a concerted effort to be stricter on penalizing players for hits to the head, allowing a guy to repeatedly hit a guy in the head...and have his head hit the ice numerous times....goes against that.  Try to justify it any way you want....the NHL turned a blind eye into that "greater good" for "hey, it's just two star players going at it, boys will be boys".

 

About the only thing that went Nashville's way during that Subban/Crosby tussle was that the refs let the Predators try to do something with their possession in the offensive zone for a few seconds.

6 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

Unfortunately, I don't tend to think any of this is why the NHL is a fringe sport in the US.

 

Media and officials favoring star players is a huge issue in basketball, but I don't think it's chased many people away.  Some people think indicents like Brashear or Burtuzzi turn off fans.  Maybe. Who knows?

 

I think hockey has other disadvantages that are just inherent to the game...particularly when it comes to the attraction of casual fans:

• Star time on the ice.  NBA Superstars tend to play 40-45 minutes out of 48 (in big games, anyway).  NHL stars play less than half the game.
• "Who's on the ice?" Changing on the fly probably drives fans looking for Crosby or Ovi nuts.  It's the one sport in which you are not always certain who's out there (OK, football, but the changing at least occurs between plays and is more often acknowledge by announcers.  
• Two intermissions.  Sure it's far less aggravating the constant stop/start (and more frequent commercial breaks) in football and basketball, but it's something fans perceive as making the game a drag. 
• "You can't see the puck on TV."  Again, a perception thing, but I think it's an issue.  Remember the glow puck (or whatever it was called)?  Got it was awful, but I did not blame them for trying it.  It's also more difficult to appreciate the speed and athleticism on TV.  
• Low scoring.  Like it or not, it matters.  It's why we have the DH, why MLB let steroids go for a while, why the pitchers mound was lowered back in the 60s, etc.  Again, a perception issue; that low-scoring = no action/excitement.  Remember after one of the work stoppages, all the talk of a larger net, smaller goalie pads, etc.  I am glad that never happened, but it may have been helpful in attracting casual fans...8-5 may look better to some of them than 3-2.
• In this age of 1,000 TV channels, sun-belt teams, and a generally shrinking world, I don't think "southern weather" is the impediment it used to be.  But certainly, fewer kids in warmer parts of the country ever put on skates.  Everyone at least goes out and "shoots hoops," plays touch football, and plays catch.  Of the "big 4" (and 5 with soccer), hockey's the one that probably has the least "hands-on" experience with organized play and casual play.

Anyway, a lot of these issues are perception.  It's too bad because I think most people could adapt to seeing the puck, changing on the fly, etc. Especially if they get more and more burned out on super teams and predictable playoffs...there's none of that on ice!  And given the speed, physical play (which we LOVE), and digestible pace, I feel like if all sports fans somehow agreed to "Give it a Chance" for the 2018 playoffs, a lot of them might stick with it.  You don't need to know what a neutral zone trap is to enjoy it at roughly the same level of knowledge most people enjoy football at.

NBC tried to have a Shift Clock for when recognizable players are on the ice.  But hockey's way too fast a sport for new-to-casual fans to figure out where that star player is.  For that clock to be worthwhile, you have to have a decent knowledge of how shifts work, that player's position, the way they shoot (left/right), their number, etc.

 

Are we still have sight issues with the puck on TV?  I've never had trouble seeing the puck, both at games and on TV.  HD and better camera work should have eliminated this by now.

 

I'm not so concerned about total goals as I am about scoring chances seemingly being way down.  This is something the NHL really needs to look at.  We're seeing forms of trap hockey coming back, along with zone defenses and a higher amount of blocked shots.  So if you're lucky enough to get through a defensive system and can get a shot off without everyone diving to the ice to block off the lower part of the goal, you have to get the puck past a much more athletic and generally larger goalie that's padded-up like the Michelin Man.  Offense is being suffocated out of the game.  It's tough to watch some of these games.  Today's players much faster and stronger and more skilled than players of the past, but you wouldn't know it with the way offense gets snuffed out due to positioning, blocks, and huge goalies.

 

And as someone touched on before, hockey will always lag behind other sports simply due to it being a pricey game.  Paying for ice time, all the equipment, etc...all you need for soccer and football is a ball with makeshift goal boundaries marked with shirts or trees.  You can play a form of baseball with unblossomed pinecones and a stick.

6 hours ago, McCarthy said:

The TV ratings are actually pretty good this year. Game 4 got a 4.1 and won NBC the night. 

 

Social media's made it far more immersive an experience, but it's also free advertising for the league and as a result more people at the very least know it's happening than they would've 10-15 years ago even if they're not watching. I think the league's carved out a really good niche. I've never cared about ratings, but the sport feels far more accessible and mainstream than it did even when the games were on espen. This morning coworkers were asking me about Crosby's assault last night and I wouldn't have wagered on them even knowing hockey existed before today. 

 

But yeah we absolutely need to get Mike Milbury to stop speaking on behalf of the sport. He's a joke. 

I may be mistaken, but hockey was one of the first leagues to embrace getting their content online, and for free at that.  Seemed like they were willing to sacrifice pennies for more fans/money later on.

[Viola73]

4 hours ago, mcj882000 said:

That's what he is doing in that gif though.

Not even close to what he is doing in the gif. P.K. Is not pushing Sid away nor is he trying to untangle himself from Sid. As Bradbury mentions, Sids leg is on top of P.K.'s left arm, which is right there for all to see. But P.K.'s right hand in on top of Sid's leg and it is in no way trying to separate from Sid's leg. 

[Viola73]

4 hours ago, MiK said:

Not entirely convinced that Viola73 isn't actually Crosby himself posting on these boards...

If only. ; )

[Viola73]

4 hours ago, Bradbury said:

Sid's leg was on top of PK's left arm. It's not like PK picked him up the leg and swinging him like a rag doll. Sid was clearly in the dominant position is this scuffle and has little-to-no right to the victim's role in this particular instance. 

Who is calling Sid a victim? I for sure am not. 

[YELDARBfield]

56 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

Who is calling Sid a victim? I for sure am not. 

 

7 hours ago, Viola73 said:

You have it backwards. He was being punched in the head because he wouldn't let go of Crosbys leg. Crosby said, after the game, that Sabban was trying to do some MMA crap to his ankle and he didn't take kindly to it.

 

[Viola73]

8 hours ago, Bradbury said:

 

 

Here....read.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/news/stanley-cup-final-2017-sidney-crosby-pk-subban-video-fight-wrestle-predators-penguins/1n4p2tfr63gkv1o3w5tpbhlzpm

[JWhiz96]

18 hours ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Are we still have sight issues with the puck on TV?  I've never had trouble seeing the puck, both at games and on TV.  HD and better camera work should have eliminated this by now.

The issues with sight aren't as troubling as they were previously, but it's still an issue with smaller TVs. My brother has a 19in. TV, and even though it's an HDTV, the small size can occasionally make it difficult to see the puck.

Quote

I'm not so concerned about total goals as I am about scoring chances seemingly being way down.  This is something the NHL really needs to look at.  We're seeing forms of trap hockey coming back, along with zone defenses and a higher amount of blocked shots.  So if you're lucky enough to get through a defensive system and can get a shot off without everyone diving to the ice to block off the lower part of the goal, you have to get the puck past a much more athletic and generally larger goalie that's padded-up like the Michelin Man.  Offense is being suffocated out of the game.  It's tough to watch some of these games.  Today's players much faster and stronger and more skilled than players of the past, but you wouldn't know it with the way offense gets snuffed out due to positioning, blocks, and huge goalies.

This is a major problem and has to be addressed. Ottawa and St. Louis utilized the trap to their advantage this year, but the games were almost always low scoring and boring (especially in St. Louis' case, my god, their series vs. Minnesota was unwatchable). It's a good strategy if executed correctly because it allows a team with perceivably less talent to compete with the big boys - I mean, how else was Ottawa to beat New York and scare Pittsburgh? I stand to reason that the only reason St. Louis isn't in the Final is because Nashville runs a similar scheme with more offensive fire power and talent on the defensive end. The trap has its place in hockey (how else would the Devils have three titles in the era of Sakic and Yzerman?), but it significantly decreases the amount of chances and shots on goal for the opponent, leading to low scoring games. If the NHL wants to address its issue with offense, start here.

Quote

And as someone touched on before, hockey will always lag behind other sports simply due to it being a pricey game.  Paying for ice time, all the equipment, etc...all you need for soccer and football is a ball with makeshift goal boundaries marked with shirts or trees.  You can play a form of baseball with unblossomed pinecones and a stick.

I may be mistaken, but hockey was one of the first leagues to embrace getting their content online, and for free at that.  Seemed like they were willing to sacrifice pennies for more fans/money later on.

100%.

[HedleyLamarr]

Not sure how you would make calls against zone defenses...will probably just have to accept that it'll be a part of hockey for the foreseeable future.

 

What can be done is penalizing purposely blocked shots.  Call a 2-minute minor for shot-blocking by skaters if the blocking player blocks the puck without both skates being on the ice.  What I'd also like to see, in order to try and combat zone defenses, is a floating blue line.  Get the puck inside the blue line like you would now, but instead of the blue line being the barrier, have the center red line be the line for the defense to get the puck to cross to end the offensive possession.  Both of these changes would require teams in the defending zone to move around and make a play using their skates and sticks instead of hitting the deck to block a shot or defend a small portion of the ice.  Make the defending team physically move around and create lanes to pass/shoot.

 

If these options don't increase offense enough, start looking into expanding the goal size by a couple inches outward and up.

[YELDARBfield]

14 hours ago, Viola73 said:

Here....read.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/news/stanley-cup-final-2017-sidney-crosby-pk-subban-video-fight-wrestle-predators-penguins/1n4p2tfr63gkv1o3w5tpbhlzpm

I did.

 

“I really don’t understand the call," Laviolette said. "I saw my guy get his head cross-checked into the ice 10 times."

 

Yeah, but PK was performing some Vulcan nerve pinch on Sid's leg. Total ??.

[Red Wolf]

7 minutes ago, Bradbury said:

I did.

 

“I really don’t understand the call," Laviolette said. "I saw my guy get his head cross-checked into the ice 10 times."

 

Yeah, but PK was performing some Vulcan nerve pinch on Sid's leg. Total ??.

PK Subban is a submission machine, apparently.