NBA Changes 2019-20

[Indigo]

2 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

What did I say that was wrong?

 

14 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

The greatest NBA title win of all time may happen in the greatest NBA alternate uniform of all time.

...which I don't disagree with, but other do. So question--what is the best alternate uniform worn in a Finals game? 

[WSU151]

10 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

What did I say that was wrong?

 

LeBron himself has two other titles that are far more compelling than this year's title. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

5 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

LeBron himself has two other titles that are far more compelling than this year's title. 

 

The players themselves have said the bubble title is the hardest road. Some of those guys didn't see their kids for months. They've been in hotel rooms and a Disney complex subjected to daily tests since late July. I would go crazy.

 

3-1 in 2016 was a more compelling moment, but the circumstances around this title are well beyond any other NBA title ever.

[WSU151]

1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

The players themselves have said the bubble title is the hardest road. Some of those guys didn't see their kids for months. They've been in hotel rooms and a Disney complex subjected to daily tests since late July. I would go crazy.

 

3-1 in 2016 was a more compelling moment, but the circumstances around this title are well beyond any other NBA title ever.

 

I don't think many people consider this year's Stanley Cup to be the greatest ever, and NHL teams played back to backs in the playoffs (and even in the Finals). Over in the NBA bubble, Rajon Rondo complained about playing every other day. Poor guy. 

 

Winning against an undermanned/ & injured non-superfriend team really isn't something to write home about, even from a bubble. The Lakers were projected to win the West with two of the game's best superstars...and they did. 

 

It's a title worth celebrating, and it'll still be as legit as any other title, and the banner will still be just as good as the others, but IMO it's far from greatest ever. 

[jp1409]

18 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

What did I say that was wrong?

 

14 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

The greatest NBA title win of all time may happen in the greatest NBA alternate uniform of all time.

 

Greatest NBA title win of all time? Record low viewership while people have next to nothing else to do... This should end up 4-1 against a team that was 11th in the Association during regular season but resuscited in the bubble. The second statement might not be as bold but is still a huge stretch.

[FinsUp1214]

I’ve got a torn opinion on the Black Mamba uniform...I get the sentiment of it, I really do. I get that his nickname was the Black Mamba (I think we’re all plenty aware of that), and I get that the wound of him passing is still fairly fresh and it’s a feel-good story for Laker fans that they’re making this run right now. I think the frequency with which they’re wearing it, though, is a bit much. I didn’t mind them bringing it into the bubble and wearing it on 8/24 and in the early parts of the playoffs, but making it their de facto primary uniform for this playoff run is laying it on a bit thick, in my opinion. They’re already wearing a Kobe and Gianna patch, they’ve already pretty much dedicated the season to their memory, “Job’s not done” has been repeated again and again...I don’t think anyone would second-guess the sincerity of the Lakers’ tributes and devotion to their memory if they happened to win the Finals in a gold or purple uniform. It’s the colors Kobe won in, after all.
 

As far as the title run itself - again, I don’t mean to downplay the difficulty of the bubble and certainly don’t mean to downplay the loss of Kobe - but I feel like the Lakers were going to have this steamroll run anyway, present circumstances or not. The fact they did it with the present circumstances makes it a compelling off-court story, absolutely, and they should by all means celebrate that to the fullest. But they’ve also blitzed through everyone in the playoffs and the on-court part of the run has been, if I’m being frank, kind of a bore. “Entertaining” or “compelling” are not words I’d use to describe the on-court product of thier run at all.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Here's what Kevin Durant said about the bubble title:

Quote

This NBA season was and is unlike any other in league history. Currently, four teams are playing out the Conference Finals in a bubble. Eventually, one will emerge as champion.

 

When that squad does ultimately win the title, will it be regarded as more legitimate or less legitimate than past champions? Brooklyn Nets star Kevin Durant was presented with that question during a recent appearance on the Joe Budden Podcast. When Budden wondered whether this year’s title would mean as much, Durant didn’t hesitate.

“Yeah, of course,” he replied.

 

“You still have to play against these dudes.”

 

After giving the question some consideration, Durant insisted that this year’s championship would actually mean more.

 

“I think it will be respected for sure,” he continued. “Probably more respected. It’s tough for the boys in there. They’ve been away from everybody for that long. To be the last one standing? That’s going to be tough.”

 

And Giannis:

Quote

Milwaukee Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo said something similar.

 

“I’ve heard a lot of people say that there’s going to be, like, a star next to this championship,” he said. “I feel like at the end of the day this is going to be like the toughest championship you could ever win because the circumstances are really, really tough right now. So, whoever wants it more is going to be able to go out there and take it.”

 

Erik Spoelstra:

Quote

“I think this might be certainly the most worthy of all world championships in the NBA because of all the things that every team is going to have to navigate and overcome to be able to be crowned a champion,” he said.

 

Frank Vogel:

Quote

“Our team has been through a lot this year,” he said. “And we’ve endured, and we’ve come out strong each time we’ve faced adversity. I don’t know about other teams but if we were able to come through all of this and achieve the ultimate prize, I do think it deserves a harder-than-ordinary asterisk. If you’re going to put an asterisk on it, I don’t think it weakens it at all.”

 

Mike Malone:

Quote

“If you’re able to go into a bubble to be isolated from your friends and family, to have no home court advantage, to have a league interruption of four months, and you’re able to spend 90 days and come out of there a champion, I think this will be the toughest championship ever won,” he said. “There’s no asterisk. You win an NBA championship anytime, it’s a hell of an accomplishment. But in these circumstances, these unprecedented times, with everything going on … I think it will be a remarkable accomplishment.”

 

[truepg]

3 hours ago, Ben in LA said:

And his nickname was literally BLACK MAMBA.

 

 

We know that. Doesn't make those uniforms any more Kobe or Lakers for aforementioned reasons.

[-Akronite-]

I think it's safe to say that this is a completely unique season that presented challenges unlike any other title run. I wouldn't argue that, matchup-wise, the Lakers faced the toughest possible road, but that's not really the issue.

 

There is certainly understandable sentiment regarding anything Kobe-related, but the Black Mamba jerseys are not even on my radar wrt greatest all-time alternates. It's just a black jersey, and not an especially well designed one. The black lettering is kinda cool with the gold, but the way the purple is used you don't even realize there's a third color. And if we're being honest the Lakers don't need alts to begin with, but that's just my opinion.

[WSU151]

1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

Here's what Kevin Durant said about the bubble title:

 

And Giannis:

 

Erik Spoelstra:

 

Frank Vogel:

 

Mike Malone:

 

 

Still doesn't change my opinion as a fan. Every year is tough. Every year has some adversity, as noted by the players. I've never heard a team in any sport say "this championship is way easier than the one we won (or played in) xxxx years ago". There's no travel. No traffic. They're incredibly pampered. Imagine if they didn't have Skype or Facetime....now that would be a huge challenge.

 

And again, the NHL was in the same exact scenario...and I think there are a few Stanley Cup wins that are greater than the Cup won in 2020. 

[The_Admiral]

8 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

And again, the NHL was in the same exact scenario...and I think there are a few Stanley Cup wins that are greater than the Cup won in 2020. 

 

Yeah but you couldn't work backward from LeBron James playing for the Lightning

[DG_ThenNowForever]

49 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Still doesn't change my opinion as a fan. Every year is tough. Every year has some adversity, as noted by the players. I've never heard a team in any sport say "this championship is way easier than the one we one xxxx years ago". There's no travel. No traffic. They're incredibly pampered. Imagine if they didn't have Skype or Facetime....now that would be a huge challenge. 

 

And again, the NHL was in the same exact scenario...and I think there are a few Stanley Cup wins that are greater than the Cup won in 2020. 

 

My kingdom for a world where hockey fans didn't feel the need to tell everyone how tough and amazing and underappreciated the sport is. Did anyone say the 2020 hockey playoffs were easy? No. Everything I have to say about the 2020 NBA Finals is applicable to the 2020 Stanley Cup.

 

I'm still surprised that people can handwave away "I can't see my children for three months." Sure, they're staying a resort and have iPads. But they can't say hi to their kids or their dogs, and they can't :censored:, and they can't hang out with their normal support systems the way they did prior to the bubble. And while it probably saved a lot of the players from contracting coronavirus, there's still a physical and mental toll to being in the same place with the same routines every single day.

 

 

[WSU151]

14 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

My kingdom for a world where hockey fans didn't feel the need to tell everyone how tough and amazing and underappreciated the sport is. Did anyone say the 2020 hockey playoffs were easy? No. Everything I have to say about the 2020 NBA Finals is applicable to the 2020 Stanley Cup.

 

I'm still surprised that people can handwave away "I can't see my children for three months." Sure, they're staying a resort and have iPads. But they can't say hi to their kids or their dogs, and they can't :censored:, and they can't hang out with their normal support systems the way they did prior to the bubble. And while it probably saved a lot of the players from contracting coronavirus, there's still a physical and mental toll to being in the same place with the same routines every single day.

 

 

 

Players' friends and family (especially with small kid) were allowed into the bubble. 

 

I'm not sure what the mental toll of working out (which relieves stress) and exercising (which relieves stress) and playing ping pong and slamball all day is, but I'm sure it's very relatable to us common folk trying to pay a non-million dollar mortgage. 

[jp1409]

19 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

I'm still surprised that people can handwave away "I can't see my children for three months." Sure, they're staying a resort and have iPads. But they can't say hi to their kids or their dogs, and they can't :censored:, and they can't hang out with their normal support systems the way they did prior to the bubble. And while it probably saved a lot of the players from contracting coronavirus, there's still a physical and mental toll to being in the same place with the same routines every single day.

 

 

 

Some people have to work abroad, not staying in thousand bucks a night Disney resorts with millionnaire convenience, some of them are living in crappy dorms, eating cafeteria crap every day, missing their families just as much... These guys are living in a world of their own. NBA greats not that long ago played through injuries, not skipping any games, going to war against opposition they genuinely hated. These guys are complaining about everything they can, it was kinda expected that they would call this "adversity". Greatest NBA title of all time? It might have been different but this doesn't make it the greatest by any mean.

[Digby]

2 hours ago, FinsUp1214 said:

I’ve got a torn opinion on the Black Mamba uniform...I get the sentiment of it, I really do. I get that his nickname was the Black Mamba (I think we’re all plenty aware of that), and I get that the wound of him passing is still fairly fresh and it’s a feel-good story for Laker fans that they’re making this run right now. I think the frequency with which they’re wearing it, though, is a bit much. I didn’t mind them bringing it into the bubble and wearing it on 8/24 and in the early parts of the playoffs, but making it their de facto primary uniform for this playoff run is laying it on a bit thick, in my opinion. They’re already wearing a Kobe and Gianna patch, they’ve already pretty much dedicated the season to their memory, “Job’s not done” has been repeated again and again...I don’t think anyone would second-guess the sincerity of the Lakers’ tributes and devotion to their memory if they happened to win the Finals in a gold or purple uniform. It’s the colors Kobe won in, after all.
 

As far as the title run itself - again, I don’t mean to downplay the difficulty of the bubble and certainly don’t mean to downplay the loss of Kobe - but I feel like the Lakers were going to have this steamroll run anyway, present circumstances or not. The fact they did it with the present circumstances makes it a compelling off-court story, absolutely, and they should by all means celebrate that to the fullest. But they’ve also blitzed through everyone in the playoffs and the on-court part of the run has been, if I’m being frank, kind of a bore. “Entertaining” or “compelling” are not words I’d use to describe the on-court product of thier run at all.

 

This is basically how I feel about it. Breaking the Nike uniform scheme to bring those back was a big moment, but now they're just a PART of the uniform rotation. I guess I mind less because this is such a weird year -- with the Kobe death and the bubble and the BLM stuff -- that I mind the Lakers winning a title in a weird jersey less than I normally would. But in general I don't love the idea of a team like the Lakers wearing a black alt in the Finals.

 

Even though I kind of like the look of it, the minimalist yellow, no-white trim pops pretty nicely on the all-black. I can live with it otherwise, and I've seen worse sacriligious attempts at alternates in recent years (hello, Celtics pub jerseys! Good day to weird creepy sky-blue Bulls mascot!). But alternates belong on random Saturdays in February.

 

 

48 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Players' friends and family (especially with small kid) were allowed into the bubble. 

 

I'm not sure what the mental toll of working out (which relieves stress) and exercising (which relieves stress) and playing ping pong and slamball all day is, but I'm sure it's very relatable to us common folk trying to pay a non-million dollar mortgage. 

 

This is a weird place to air out your class grievances, but okay!

 

The Bubble isn't exactly a gulag but it's still weird and I'm sure it's gotten old for at least some of the players. That's perfectly legitimate. I couldn't last three days staying at friggin Disney World, let alone three months.

[WSU151]

9 minutes ago, Digby said:

The Bubble isn't exactly a gulag but it's still weird and I'm sure it's gotten old for at least some of the players. That's perfectly legitimate. I couldn't last three days staying at friggin Disney World, let alone three months.

 

Why wouldn't you be able to stay at a closed-to-the-outside-world Disney World hotel for more than three days? That seems really weird to me, but okay!. 

 

Being in a hotel with nothing but NBA staff, players, and reporters is probably far easier than a regular trip to Disney during peak tourist season. 

[Digby]

2 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Why wouldn't you be able to stay at a closed-to-the-outside-world Disney World hotel for more than three days? That seems really weird to me, but okay!. 

 

Because big corporate conference hotels are depressing -- not enough has been made of the weird incongruity of NBA courts in giant hotel ballrooms -- Florida weather is inhuman, and Disney World is creepy.

[WSU151]

edit: nm - bad form on my part. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

12 minutes ago, Digby said:

 

This is basically how I feel about it. Breaking the Nike uniform scheme to bring those back was a big moment, but now they're just a PART of the uniform rotation. I guess I mind less because this is such a weird year -- with the Kobe death and the bubble and the BLM stuff -- that I mind the Lakers winning a title in a weird jersey less than I normally would. But in general I don't love the idea of a team like the Lakers wearing a black alt in the Finals.

 

Even though I kind of like the look of it, the minimalist yellow, no-white trim pops pretty nicely on the all-black. I can live with it otherwise, and I've seen worse sacriligious attempts at alternates in recent years (hello, Celtics pub jerseys! Good day to weird creepy sky-blue Bulls mascot!). But alternates belong on random Saturdays in February.

 

 

I mentioned in the NBA sports thread that I was bummed the Lakers didn't sweep because them winning the title in gold would have been A+ all around. Of the remaining uniforms in their 2020 rotation (purple/black, white, Mamba), the Kobe jersey is clearly the next-best option. And given that the Kobe jerseys have special meaning to the players -- they've said so themselves -- I think it's altogether a a good thing they want to close out wearing them.

 

I can't imagine too many people objectively prefer the purple/black over the Mamba set, and certainly less so in 2020 and given everything that's going on (as you said). If it's a choice between the purple/black -- doubly absurd because Friday is a Lakers "home" game! -- and something with particular meaning to the players wearing them, I'm glad everyone's making the right choice.

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, jp1409 said:

Some people have to work abroad, not staying in thousand bucks a night Disney resorts with millionnaire convenience, some of them are living in crappy dorms, eating cafeteria crap every day, missing their families just as much... These guys are living in a world of their own. NBA greats not that long ago played through injuries, not skipping any games, going to war against opposition they genuinely hated. These guys are complaining about everything they can, it was kinda expected that they would call this "adversity". Greatest NBA title of all time? It might have been different but this doesn't make it the greatest by any mean.

 

It's a big achievement as any world championship is (minus this upcoming World Series that we've all agreed is very much Less Than). There are challenges that are unique and old challenges that are missing. But what all this is really about is that when the playoffs were originally supposed to be happening, ESPN did a documentary about Michael Jordan and the '98 Bulls that most people seemed to think was pretty cool, but other people were in a state over because it dared to imply that Michael Jordan was better than LeBron James. This is unacceptable. Now, this Finals has to be elevated to the greatest achievement of all time solely in the name of glorifying LeBron James, who has been made a proxy for all black people while Jordan has been made a proxy for, if not white people themselves, for obvious reasons, then at least the now-disproven concept of a transcendent "post-racialism."