MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[dfwabel]

12 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

They had some decent Levi's money behind them until the mid-'90s, but then the patriarch died and thus began the series of piecemeal ownership consortiums (consortia?) that were only just getting by, which in turn begat Moneyball.

Raiders moving back didn't help and then-mayor Lionel Wilson saw then leave under his watch only to lure them back and still only get cold feet at the last minute to no avail after he received 40K signatures in a petition for a ballot measure. 

 

12 hours ago, Wings said:

Ken Hoffman & Steve Schott come to mind. 

 

@Wings has it right.  Hofmann and Schott bought the team from the Haas family, but were underfunded and out of their element.  They were real estate guys, specifically homebuilders.  They decided it was better to cut payroll and use young players at about the same time the new CBA gave them a revenue sharing check from the likes of the Yankees, Braves, Red Sox...

 

Schott claims they tried to get a new stadium at in the Coliseum complex parking lot. From 2005:

Quote

One thing Schott couldn't get done as owner was put the A's in a new stadium. Attempts to move the A's to the South Bay failed because the San Francisco Giants have territorial rights to that area. Talk of building a new ballpark next to Network Associates Coliseum, where the A's have played for nearly 40 years, hasn't gone beyond the talking stage with East Bay officials.

 

Schott said not being able to work out a stadium deal played a part in the decision to sell the A's. Since he "did not feel up to challenge" any longer, Schott thought a change in ownership would be in the best interest of the team.

 

"Being an owner is like being the caretaker of a franchise. (This organization) is well over 100 years old, and there haven't been that many owners - I think we were the seventh," he said. "I felt 10 years, almost complete, was enough for me to carry the torch, and now the franchise can take the next step: to be more competitive. To get to the World Series on a regular basis, you need a new stadium, which will lead to more revenue."

 

 

And them selling to Lew Wolff and John Fischer was backed with Fisher's money, not Wolff's.  Fisher had 80% when the bought it in 2005 and got Lew's 10% in 2016.  Sadly, Fisher, like Wolff is looking towards more soccer investments with Celtic and he'll have more cash to spend when Gap officially spins off Old Navy and it goes public.

[dfwabel]

BTW, I'm pretty sure that hasn't been mentioned or posted, since I haven't done either, but earlier in October before this thread was made, the city of Oakland filed suit against Alameda County to prevent the county from selling their 50% of the Coliseum Complex to the Athletics.

 

Note/Warning: I'm posting you a link to an independent, Oakland blog (not anything from Zennie Abraham, for those Bay Area folks), which heavily leans to the Left, but the links within the blog are to major papers and websites which will produce the actual court filings in PDF. 

 

LINK

 

From the blog:

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The Oakland City Attorney’s Office filed a lawsuit against the County of Alameda (Case NO. RG19036930), on September 27, 2019, at the direction of the Oakland City Council to block the sale of the Coliseum complex property to the Athletics Investment Group, LLC (Oakland Athletics).

 

Earlier today, reportedly Alameda County Court Judge Frank Roesch issued a temporary restraining (TRO) to block the sale of the property. A hearing has been set for November 14, 2019, when the City of Oakland can make its case to explain why the County of Alameda should not be able to sell its 50 percent share of the Coliseum complex property to the Athletics Investment Group, LLC, a.k.a. Oakland Athletics.
 

According to the lawsuit, the County of Alameda and its Board of Supervisors failed to make an effort to either comply with the procedures of the Surplus Land Act or even ensure its public lands will be used to fulfill the statutory aims of the act.

When the County of Alameda entered into a binding agreement for the sale and transfer of the property (publicly owned land) to the Athletics Investment Group, LLC, in violation of the Surplus Land Act’s strict requirements, the City of Oakland’s opportunity to explore whether the property could be developed for affordable housing, continued recreational uses or other public good would be extinguished. The Act requires that a local agency proposing to dispose of surplus land must negotiate in good faith for a period of not less than 90 days. Allegedly, the County failed to do so, and did not comply with this mandate.

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by dfwabel

[bosrs1]

On 10/18/2019 at 11:29 AM, McCarthy said:

Other than "they don't want to pay for it themselves" why can't the A's just build the new stadium in the parking lot while they play the next two years at the Coliseum?

Because they don’t own the land?

[dfwabel]

37 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

Because they don’t own the land?

Apparently they've tried

[Scrumptious Ham]

If im paying for a stadium, I'm picking a better city than Oakland. 

[Gothamite]

On 10/18/2019 at 6:22 PM, dont care said:

When stadiums cost billions even billionaires can’t afford it and keep their other businesses afloat.

 

Of course they can. 

 

Billionaires understand how loans work.  That’s how they (or their parents) became billionaires in the first place. 

[Sport]

Right. When you have a billion dollars you can easily get someone else to give you another billion dollars. That's not the problem. The problem is they want to reap the rewards without paying for it, which is another way they became billionaires in the first place. 

 

Also stadiums don't need to cost a billion dollars. Baseball stadium design should be moving more where MLS is now. If you're in a climate like Oakland's you don't need a retractable roof like the Rangers or like you would in Vegas and you don't need 65,000 seats. I'd love to see a major league team take a minor league style design and really trick it out with about 32,000 super intimate seats.

[Gothamite]

Amen. 

[AnPheitseog]

On 10/21/2019 at 11:38 AM, McCarthy said:

Right. When you have a billion dollars you can easily get someone else to give you another billion dollars. That's not the problem. The problem is they want to reap the rewards without paying for it, which is another way they became billionaires in the first place. 

 

Also stadiums don't need to cost a billion dollars. Baseball stadium design should be moving more where MLS is now. If you're in a climate like Oakland's you don't need a retractable roof like the Rangers or like you would in Vegas and you don't need 65,000 seats. I'd love to see a major league team take a minor league style design and really trick it out with about 32,000 super intimate seats.

That was, from my memory, the reason behind the design on PNC Park. Owners wanted an intimate ballpark that emphasised the view of the city over adding additional seats. One of the best ballparks for those reasons.

[The_Admiral]

The Marlins built a low-capacity stadium that failed to fix supply and demand and cost too much money to build. I don't like going under 35,000 or over 45,000. 

[Red Comet]

12 minutes ago, the admiral said:

The Marlins built a low-capacity stadium that failed to fix supply and demand and cost too much money to build. I don't like going under 35,000 or over 45,000. 

 

I don't think having a genius who spent more money on a garish barely-used contraption than most of his players helped either. 

[Walk-Off]

40 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

I don't think having a narcissistic idiot who spent more money on a garish barely-used contraption than most of his players helped either.

Fixed.

[IceCap]

On 10/18/2019 at 6:22 PM, dont care said:

When stadiums cost billions even billionaires can’t afford it and keep their other businesses afloat.

Stan Kroenke is building a football palace in Los Angeles on his own dime. If he can do that then whoever owns the A's should be able to build a decent ballpark in Oakland.

[Red Comet]

52 minutes ago, Walk-Off said:

Fixed.

 

Do I have to put an /s after any statement that would refer to Jeffrey Loria as a genius in anything except for being a welfare bum?

[Walk-Off]

Sorry about that, @Red Comet.  I was hoping that you were being sarcastic.

 

Anyway, to get this thread somewhat back on topic, have any of you ever read NewBallpark.org, a blog that has spent years covering the Athletics' lengthy, difficult quest to land a replacement for the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum?  I neither am an A's fan nor have any personal connection to Northern California, but I have nonetheless been reading that blog somewhat regularly for most of the nearly fifteen years that it has existed.  Both the blog's deep, steady coverage of the political and financial intrigue that has prolonged and complicated that club's pursuit of a new home venue and the many passionate comments that many readers have made about the matters covered by that blog have been enough to draw me into being a surprisingly frequent reader.

[Red Comet]

13 minutes ago, Walk-Off said:

Sorry about that, @Red Comet.  I was hoping that you were being sarcastic.

 

Anyway, to get this thread somewhat back on topic, have any of you ever read NewBallpark.org, a blog that has spent years covering the Athletics' lengthy, difficult quest to land a replacement for the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum?  I neither am an A's fan nor have any personal connection to Northern California, but I have nonetheless been reading that blog somewhat regularly for most of the nearly fifteen years that it has existed.  Both the blog's deep, steady coverage of the political and financial intrigue that has prolonged and complicated that club's pursuit of a new home venue and the many passionate comments that many readers have made about the matters covered by that blog have been enough to draw me into being a surprisingly frequent reader.

 

It's all copacetic. And thank you for the rabbit hole! I wonder how Charlie Finley feels now that the city he abandoned has a far nicer stadium than the Coliseum could ever be?

Edited October 23, 2019 by Red Comet

[dont care]

5 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Stan Kroenke is building a football palace in Los Angeles on his own dime. If he can do that then whoever owns the A's should be able to build a decent ballpark in Oakland.

Stan Kroenke is worth over 8 billion, the A’s owner is worth less than 2. That’s a huge difference

[dfwabel]

2 hours ago, dont care said:

Stan Kroenke is worth over 8 billion, the A’s owner is worth less than 2. That’s a huge difference

Not necessarily, especially when in MLB you get at least 81 attempts (as of now) per year to recoup your investment.  As @Gothamite alluded to, billionaires have pretty easy access to funding when needed since they go to Goldman Sachs at virtually anytime for their core business. The Athletics make money as it is, so the books are fine, even without future revenue sharing checks coming in.  As I stated before, when the news hit in February that Gap was going to spin off Old Navy, the family's net worth is going to increase since they will get one Old Navy share for every Gap one they own and they own 43% of Gap.

 

 

[dfwabel]

Bumping this as opposed to placing it in the Offseason or Angels thread since I'm not sure if crossposting in threads is prohibited.

 

Hillsborough County officials are again willing to talk Rays stadium

 

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A day after St. Petersburg's mayor said the Rays' idea to split the season with Montreal before 2028 was dead, Hillsborough negotiators pledged to pitch another deal.

As the team's general manager prepared to pitch to new players at baseball's winter meetings, Hillsborough's top negotiator, Commissioner Ken Hagan was getting into his own kind of batter's box.

 

"After the winter meetings that are coming up here shortly, we will sit down with the team and start to have serious discussions about a ballpark in Tampa," said Hagan.

Though he said he wasn't overly thrilled about a split-season idea, Hagan said it might be a way to start a dialogue, especially because the ballpark would likely be small.

 

He considers the proposed Ybor City site - explored last year - the team's first choice.

 

"I am still hopeful that we will be able to work out a deal for the team to be here for the entire season," said Hagan. "If not, a shared-cities concept should be something we should at least consider."

Now, regardless of site, in the last year Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa have been alerted to something troubling...there are at least two black cemeteries which were built over in the mid-1900's and the bodies were not exhumed and relocated. 

 

The first one was confirmed in July as a public housing complex was built on top of it in the 1950's.

 

The second site was confirmed in November where a high school has sat since opening in 1960.

 

And there is a former county worker trying to name ALL the sites.

 

Ybor site and the current Jefferson HS property, which was often thought of as a parcel for stadium need to be scanned ASAP.  Both parcels are fairly close to the Robles Park.

[dfwabel]

Tampa mayor Jane Castor open on split season concept.

 

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“This right now is just in pencil and notepad stage,” Castor said. "So it’s just going to take so much more negotiating and data crunching and, you know, looking at the possibilities.

 

 

 

Quote

 

In a statement to the Tampa Bay Times Wednesday, Rays President Matt Silverman said: “We do and have always had a positive relationship with Mayor Castor, and we look forward to continuing discussions regarding ways we can collaborate to keep the Rays in Tampa Bay for generations to come.”

In the previous effort to woo the Rays, Hillsborough County Commissioner Ken Hagan was the point person. But when he reached out to the Rays Tuesday, Brian Auld told him the team was meeting with Castor.